Stuart Kettlewell discussion thread

[wellsince75]

5 minutes ago, David said:

Nobody knows where we’ll end up, though. Let’s say we lose this weekend, and Hibs manage a win away at County. Suddenly, we’d drop from 5th to 6th. Would the manager be sacked for that? If so, I’d have some serious questions for the club. Chief among them would be: who’s taking over? I’d assume there’s someone better lined up, ready to step in and make an immediate difference? Because for a club like ours to sack the manager while sitting in the top six would be absolutely baffling. Given all the hand-wringing over a supposed “financial gap” during the summer, I’d also want to know the cost of letting the manager—and presumably his coaching staff—go mid-season.

Now, if we were down in 11th, fair enough, that’s a different conversation. But in the top six? Is that really where we’ve set the bar for managers at Motherwell? Have we reached the point where making it to a cup semi-final and being in the top half of the table doesn’t guarantee job security? If so, I’d seriously question the judgement of those making these decisions.

For me, it’s about keeping our heads above water, and seeing how things improve once our key injured players are back in the fold.

When the season’s over, by all means, let’s reflect on what worked and what didn’t. But making drastic changes mid-season? That should only ever be an absolute last resort.

Thanks David . Personally I’m not looking to replace manager and can’t see us being worse than 9th - probably somewhere between 6-9th .

i don’t think sacking a mgr for 9th is sackable either . It’s not for me purely about points

For me SK needs to evolve and develop as a mgr .  In sep we beat st j 2:1 as we had 10+ shots and 6 on target - the energy we had has gone , and has been lacking for months .

sk needs to learn how to adapt and have more than 1 string to his bow . 

[David]

6 minutes ago, mfc88 said:

That's kind of taken out of context - my point is where are we headed? Well we have just played the team rooted to the bottom of the league in front of a massive away support and didn't lay a glove on them. We have no given right to win yesterday, but that was unacceptable and a repeating theme particularly away from home.

It doesn't matter where we are now if we're 11th come may. 

We'll find out where we are headed. It's on the manager and the players to start putting some points on the board. 

2 minutes ago, wellsince75 said:

Thanks David . Personally I’m not looking to replace manager and can’t see us being worse than 9th - probably somewhere between 6-9th .

i don’t think sacking a mgr for 9th is sackable either . It’s not for me purely about points

For me SK needs to evolve and develop as a mgr .  In sep we beat st j 2:1 as we had 10+ shots and 6 on target - the energy we had has gone , and has been lacking for months .

sk needs to learn how to adapt and have more than 1 string to his bow . 

To be fair, when we defeated St Johnstone in that match, we had our first-choice goalkeeper, our captain was still fit, Miller was available, and so was Robinson. At that time, we had plenty of options when it came to personnel. Of course, it’s the manager’s job to cope with injuries, but you can’t deny there will be a dip in quality when you lose players of that calibre.

[wellsince75]

6 minutes ago, David said:

To be fair, when we defeated St Johnstone in that match, we had our first-choice goalkeeper, our captain was still fit, Miller was available, and so was Robinson. At that time, we had plenty of options when it came to personnel. Of course, it’s the manager’s job to cope with injuries, but you can’t deny there will be a dip in quality when you lose players of that calibre.

of course it makes a difference.  From an attacking sense we certainly miss Miller, the boy is heads and shoulder above everyone.  Suspect we also miss Robinsons work rate , no other striker has put in that level of effort.

That said  I don't think it's all down to injuries though and  I fully accept we won't be brilliant every game.  I dislike our approach to football, even when we were winning it was rarely easy on the eye. 

We simply need to get back to looking like a team who work for one another and understand what role each player has.  We've lost that since October/early November. 

[joewarkfanclub]

43 minutes ago, mfc88 said:

That's kind of taken out of context - my point is where are we headed? Well we have just played the team rooted to the bottom of the league in front of a massive away support and didn't lay a glove on them. We have no given right to win yesterday, but that was unacceptable and a repeating theme particularly away from home.

It doesn't matter where we are now if we're 11th come may. 

 

Can't disagree for the most part.

For the record, I'm not saying knee jerk sack. Relegation is an unlikely scenario just now, so it would be prudent to wait before any change when better/ more candidates are available. But questions are rightly being asked of the team and manager right now because of our repeated and currently failing approach to games.
 

Agreed.

[wellfan]

1 hour ago, wellsince75 said:

For me SK needs to evolve and develop as a mgr

1 hour ago, wellsince75 said:

sk needs to learn how to adapt and have more than 1 string to his bow .

We’ve been saying these things since the bad run in late 2023. What more will it take for people to realise that perhaps he’s simply incapable of evolving, developing, and adapting?

[wellsince75]

14 minutes ago, wellfan said:

We’ve been saying these things since the bad run in late 2023. What more will it take for people to realise that perhaps he’s simply incapable of evolving, developing, and adapting?

You may be right @wellfan. 
 

what he has on his side is he’s managed to improve results . Points tally is still higher than last season so some progress made .

 run  since been early move has been horrendous.  I don’t see anything changing until the rest of the season unfolds 

[David]

What would we say are the KPIs set for the manager at the start of the season?

[grizzlyg]

7 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

It was awesome.

Fair took my mind off the fitba!

Hope gig was good,  king of wishful thinking was a classic.......ahhhhh........trail west? 😜😜

[santheman]

4 hours ago, David said:

Would it really be all that shocking if we managed to beat St Johnstone this weekend? How many times have we been written off, told we’re on the decline, and destined to come away with nothing, only to turn it around and notch up a few wins? The reality is, if you take Celtic, Rangers, and perhaps Aberdeen out of the equation, the rest of the teams could face each other ten times and likely split the wins evenly, five apiece.

As things stand, we’re sitting in the top six. That’s not speculation or me trying to predict what might happen—it’s simply the truth. We’ve won more matches than every team below us. Again, that’s a fact.

This is where we find ourselves at the moment.

Could we slip down the table and end up 11th? It’s possible, but the same could be said for most of the sides around us and below. If it comes to that, then it’s a conversation we’ll need to have.

 

We're perfectly capable of getting a result.

Putting things into perspective and leaving aside our poor display, it's not as if St Johnstone ran over the top of us or created numerous chances so I fully expect another tight game on Saturday which could go either way. I certainly hope we at least compete better than we did yesterday.

There's nothing to be frightened off from St Johnstone that's for sure, we just need to be more up for it.

[Kmcalpin]

1 hour ago, santheman said:

There's nothing to be frightened off from St Johnstone that's for sure, we just need to be more up for it.

Whilst that will be critical to a good result, we'll also need to set up correctly and change our tactics. We have to be prepared to counter a high press.  More of the same won't do. Let's keep the ball on the ground even at corners. Up front  the strikers need to link up and play as a unit. Is SK capable of adapting his approach?

[grizzlyg]

29 minutes ago, wellgirl said:

That's go west pal 

I know....I was joking 🤪

[santheman]

19 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

Whilst that will be critical to a good result, we'll also need to set up correctly and change our tactics. We have to be prepared to counter a high press.  More of the same won't do. Let's keep the ball on the ground even at corners. Up front  the strikers need to link up and play as a unit. Is SKcapable of adapting his approach?

That's the $64000 question.

We've certainly got the players capable of doing that, whether Mr Kettlewell takes the reigns off and let's them is another matter.

I just feel that confidence looked very low yesterday and we need a good performance and a win to give the team and fans a lift. Maybe a couple of new faces might provide the spark we need.

 

[David]

32 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

Whilst that will be critical to a good result, we'll also need to set up correctly and change our tactics. We have to be prepared to counter a high press.  More of the same won't do. Let's keep the ball on the ground even at corners. Up front  the strikers need to link up and play as a unit. Is SKcapable of adapting his approach?

If it really is as simple as you make it sound, I wonder why the club don't just sack him and hire someone from this forum to do the job 😂

[Kmcalpin]

22 minutes ago, David said:

If it really is as simple as you make it sound, I wonder why the club don't just sack him and hire someone from this forum to do the job 😂

It's far from simple. However to date, SK has proved to be inflexible and slow to learn from his mistakes. 

[grizzlyg]

51 minutes ago, David said:

If it really is as simple as you make it sound, I wonder why the club don't just sack him and hire someone from this forum to do the job 😂

I think it is fair for folk to criticise Kettlewell.  It's all about opinions and while some folk can see so fault with him I think it's only right to criticise when it's deserved.   His style of football is terrible and he seems incapable of having a plan b.   And as I have said before,  I am someone who has defended him loads so it's not just a case of looking for any reason to want him punted.

Now is the time for him to step up and prove why he deserves to stay in the job.  A win this Saturday would. E a great start 

COYW

[grizzlyg]

1 minute ago, wellgirl said:

It is completely OK for people to criticise him - but that criticism is completely over the top in some quarters - with people acting like they hate him - and in my view that's on them - it's not on Kettlewell.

He's kept us in the spl for two seasons and I personally don't think he needs to be proving anything right now - are people howling for Robbos head or the head of McInnes the way some people are with Kettlewell? I think we have a very unforgiving support at times and that's fine - I just don't need to agree with it 

 

I don't hate Kettlewell. But he needs to turn things round. If he does I will be first on here apologising 

[Kmcalpin]

1 hour ago, wellgirl said:

 I actually don't know why anyone would come to this club given the abuse thats dished out to managers when some fans think it's time for the manager to go.

Its a sad fact of life that managers suffer abuse at almost all clubs when things go pear shaped. Our club and fans are no exception but not nearly in the same league as has happened elsewhere thankfully.

[Spit_It_Out]

It will never change sadly but it be fair it's not really that bad on here it's more  constructive of the actual formation and player selections it's never really personal.

It's this old paid my ticket mindset which has morphed into faceless social media which has took it to a other level.

Imagine players/managers/officials went into these morons work place and treated them by throwing coins at them,threaten there families and such,calling there wives and kids every name under the sun.How this has become so normal is beyond me but nothing really gets done about it same old same old.

 

[stv]

9 minutes ago, Spit_It_Out said:

It will never change sadly but it be fair it's not really that bad on here it's more  constructive of the actual formation and player selections it's never really personal.

It's this old paid my ticket mindset which has morphed into faceless social media which has took it to a other level.

Imagine players/managers/officials went into these morons work place and treated them by throwing coins at them,threaten there families and such,calling there wives and kids every name under the sun.How this has become so normal is beyond me but nothing really gets done about it same old same old.

 

You've obviously no been to my work. 

[wellon]

13 hours ago, wellgirl said:

I think Kettlewell gets a disproportionate amount of stick than some other managers - and I think people should be able to express support for him - if they want to. It really should not be that polarised. I've seen people on social media calling him Kettlewell bell end. Get out of my club. Etc 

And I don't go to games to boo people either - I get why fans are upset but I think some fans have a weird hatred of him for no reason 

I never booed Alexander. I never booed Hammell even though I thought it was the wrong appointment. And I won't be booing Kettlewell either 

And you know what. I think some people like making digs at people who like Kettlewell - people shouldn't be ridiculed because they support him 

I like him - other people don't. And that should be enough. I'm not going to be called as someone who does not care about their club just because I don't want him sacked 

 

I think the majority on here are fairly measured , even if they don't rate him.

There's still one or two on here who can't help getting personal and another few who would but seem yo have disappeared...personally don't miss them , it helps if you can debate different opinions without the posts that are just on to stir things up.

Things are never black and white especially in Scottish football.

Anyway coyw.

[0Neils40yarder]

12 hours ago, wellgirl said:

You don't. But some people act like they do. I've seen it all over social media. The name calling - the demands that he gets out of our club. Completely pathetic in my view. I actually don't know why anyone would come to this club given the abuse thats dished out to managers when some fans think it's time for the manager to go. 

I'm not talking about the booing. I'm talking about the name calling on social media - I get why he doesn't look at it 

They come to our club because they have bills to pay...and like it or not, I'd imagine every club has similar reactions from fans who are enduring some utterly miserable performances 

[santheman]

6 minutes ago, 0Neils40yarder said:

They come to our club because they have bills to pay...and like it or not, I'd imagine every club has similar reactions from fans who are enduring some utterly miserable performances 

A bit off tangent but in a similar vein, did St Johnstone fans not hold a demonstration outside the main stand at their last home game (although that might have been against the board and not the manager).

Hearts held a similar demonstration I'm sure as well as the recent walk out by the Rangers mob.

If fans aren't moaning about what's happening on the field then they're moaning about what's happening off it.

 

[David]

1 hour ago, santheman said:

A bit off tangent but in a similar vein, did St Johnstone fans not hold a demonstration outside the main stand at their last home game (although that might have been against the board and not the manager).

Hearts held a similar demonstration I'm sure as well as the recent walk out by the Rangers mob.

If fans aren't moaning about what's happening on the field then they're moaning about what's happening off it.

To be fair, I’m not convinced St Johnstone or Hearts supporters would be staging those protests if their team were sitting fifth in the table with a cup semi-final under their belts.

I fully appreciate the frustrations about performances—truth be told, we’ve not been anywhere near good enough. Most fans are being reasonable in their criticism, but there are a few speaking as if we’re rock bottom of the league and nine points adrift.

[texanwellfan]

3 minutes ago, David said:

To be fair, I’m not convinced St Johnstone or Hearts supporters would be staging those protests if their team were sitting fifth in the table with a cup semi-final under their belts.

I fully appreciate the frustrations about performances—truth be told, we’ve not been anywhere near good enough. Most fans are being reasonable in their criticism, but there are a few speaking as if we’re rock bottom of the league and nine points adrift.

Fair point but I think most fans are not so much concerned about our position or what we have achieved but rather they are looking at the rest of the season ahead and are rightly worried about where we are going to end up. We need the club/manager to be proactive and change things for the better now. Don’t wait till we are deep in trouble and then make changes. Those changes could be tactics, attitude, formation, team selection or whatever. SK is the guy getting paid to figure out the best changes. 

[Kmcalpin]

11 minutes ago, David said:

I fully appreciate the frustrations about performances—truth be told, we’ve not been anywhere near good enough. Most fans are being reasonable in their criticism, but there are a few speaking as if we’re rock bottom of the league and nine points adrift.

Views probably conform to a normal distribution curve. There are a few who will back him come what may and a few who have never liked him. The vast majority will be somewhere in between.