Stuart Kettlewell discussion thread

[thewelllfan]

15 minutes ago, stv said:

Where’s the money going to suddenly appear from for all these new players comming in. Free transfers and out of contract players I suspect, that went really well the last times we’ve tried it.

Well id assume we renew Johnston and sell him on for a big fee at some point in the next year or so. Kelly will have a couple of suitors down south and apparently there is intrest in KVV in Holland so it wouldn't surprise me if we take a fee for him either. Well also have some money albeit not a lot for new arrivals and the reason i wouldn't give Kettlewell the permanent job is we need someone to find gems in the lower leagues and use the loan market to get a better quality of player.

[ppower]

On 2/17/2023 at 5:37 PM, David said:

I've seen the "cheap option again" patter trotted out a few times now, with Kettlewell and Hammell before him. 

Here's my question. What does that mean? I can understand fans saying that when it's a club owned by a rich individual or whatever, and they're not keen on throwing away millions on a manager, but that's not where we're at.

What benefit would the board draw from sacrificing the right candidate to save a few quid? Why would we go for "the cheap option?"

He is already on the wage bill so promoting him to manager will only involve a wage increase not a new guy on the wage bill. Then Clarkson will take Kettlewells job and he is also already on the pay role. Hopefully you understand what the cheap option is now.

[ppower]

Two good results and it looks like board are going to offer him the job. Wait until the end of the season. If he keeps us up then  maybe. If he fails to keep us up then bye bye.  Totally short sighted to give him the job based on two results. 

[Spiderpig]

2 hours ago, ppower said:

Two good results and it looks like board are going to offer him the job. Wait until the end of the season. If he keeps us up then  maybe. If he fails to keep us up then bye bye.  Totally short sighted to give him the job based on two results. 

So would you like it better if mccann, or Holloway had got the job and we ended up in the same position, two managers one of whom is a headcase,  who dont know the players, or Scottish football,  will bring in their own staff etc, that's risk and potential upheaval we don't need with 12 games left in a season and fighting to stay up.

Giving  the job to SK was a good risk,he's hit the ground running and seems to have the players with him, with no reorganisation of the club required. Then if it goes Pete Tong the club can have more time to recruit another manager in the summer. Personally I think SK will keep us up, and still be in charge next season.

[Yoshi-1991]

Its madness to me that some on here see a guy that's only managerial record is getting sacked for being bottom of the league as the guy to get us through a relegation battle. Yes hes had two good results and I am happy to give him credit for it but lets not kid ourselves, both St Mirren and Hearts had off days, they just did. We took full advantage of that which is exactly what we needed to do and in the hearts game in particular we looked vastly improved and players clearly were on a bounce, but we have seen it all before, very recently. I would have no issue for him to move into a number 2 roll but I don't see him as the guy to lead us out of this. People will ask who else is the answer? I honestly dont know, I just know that I don't believe its Kettlewell. 

[Stuwell2]

3 hours ago, ppower said:

He is already on the wage bill so promoting him to manager will only involve a wage increase not a new guy on the wage bill. Then Clarkson will take Kettlewells job and he is also already on the pay role. Hopefully you understand what the cheap option is now.

So do we not then have to employ someone for Clarkson’s role? What about an assistant manager? 
Also, the money for these rolls are all budgeted for so no real increase in wages unless a new manager asks for more than SH was on. 

[wellfan]

1 hour ago, Yoshi-1991 said:

Its madness to me that some on here see a guy that's only managerial record is getting sacked for being bottom of the league as the guy to get us through a relegation battle. Yes hes had two good results and I am happy to give him credit for it but lets not kid ourselves, both St Mirren and Hearts had off days, they just did. We took full advantage of that which is exactly what we needed to do and in the hearts game in particular we looked vastly improved and players clearly were on a bounce, but we have seen it all before, very recently. I would have no issue for him to move into a number 2 roll but I don't see him as the guy to lead us out of this. People will ask who else is the answer? I honestly dont know, I just know that I don't believe its Kettlewell. 

That's a fair enough post, although you may wish to consider his managerial achievements and failures. It is a mixed bag. Notwithstanding, let's return to this post at the end of the season. 

[Yoshi-1991]

5 minutes ago, wellfan said:

That's a fair enough post, although you may wish to consider his managerial achievements and failures. It is a mixed bag. Notwithstanding, let's return to this post at the end of the season. 

Absolutely, I would be delighted to be wrong, but its just what my gut feeling tells me.  

[Coatsy]

Starting to get tedious Kettlewell has won two matches and its nothing to do with him? really oh Its  that Hearts and St Mirren were crap what a joke some people on here want Pep Guardiola managing us and will never be happy otherwise.

I'm sure they would have loved it if we had lost the last two matches then they could say i told you Kettlewell is crap should be nowhere near the first team.

Lets get someone in who knows nothing about Motherwell other than its on the way to Glasgow has no idea what players we have has never seen us play oh and by the way you only have 12 games to save our season.

 

By the way i said months ago that our next manager was in the door when he was appointed Kids coach.

Yours S Kettlewell

 

[Spiderpig]

1 hour ago, Yoshi-1991 said:

Its madness to me that some on here see a guy that's only managerial record is getting sacked for being bottom of the league as the guy to get us through a relegation battle. Yes hes had two good results and I am happy to give him credit for it but lets not kid ourselves, both St Mirren and Hearts had off days, they just did. We took full advantage of that which is exactly what we needed to do and in the hearts game in particular we looked vastly improved and players clearly were on a bounce, but we have seen it all before, very recently. I would have no issue for him to move into a number 2 roll but I don't see him as the guy to lead us out of this. People will ask who else is the answer? I honestly dont know, I just know that I don't believe its Kettlewell. 

Do you honestly think when Motherwell advertised for a new manager there would be a single candidate without ar least 2 or 3 failures on his CV, not a chance, good managers tend not to be unemployed so SK was no different to any of the others. For me if Ross, McCann and Holloway made the shortlist then I suspect the overall quality of the applicants was not the best, I've been a critic of the board recently but in ghis case I think they've made the right decision to suit the club, so fair play yo them.

[Yoshi-1991]

Just now, Spiderpig said:

Do you honestly think when Motherwell advertised for a new manager there would be a single candidate without ar least 2 or 3 failures on his CV, not a chance, good managers tend not to be unemployed so SK was no different to any of the others. For me if Ross, McCann and Holloway made the shortlist then I suspect the overall quality of the applicants was not the best, I've been a critic of the board recently but in ghis case I think they've made the right decision to suit the club, so fair play yo them.

No, I am more than happy to accept someone that has a few blips on their record, thats the market we are in and always seem to be in. However I think that there needs to be a minimum standard and someone thats ONLY senior team management experience resulted in being sacked for being bottom of the league doesn't meet that standard for me personally, especially when we are trying to avoid exactly that outcome. 

I agree that our quality of applicant clearly wasn't great when you see the shortlist, but you could say that for the last few manager hunts, we certainly seem to lack appeal as a club to manage for whatever reason. 

[Yorkyred]

I think we would be crazy to offer a long term contract to someone that’s won two games of football, if he has a better offer elsewhere that’s fine by me. His record at Ross County in the Premiership while in sole charge was 29%. I think he needs to show he can make it at the top level before we start offering two or three year contracts.

[Yoshi-1991]

5 minutes ago, Yorkyred said:

I think we would be crazy to offer a long term contract to someone that’s won two games of football, if he has a better offer elsewhere that’s fine by me.

I have a feeling that might be the delay in him accepting our offer, and quite possibly why Ross dropped out. I think (and would hope) that or offer is until the end of the season with a look to extend results dependent. 

[Throughthelaces]

If the 3 options kettlewells the best fit okay things went wrong at county but sometimes a manager gets things wrong at one club and improves on his next go around. He’s had two tough fixtures I said if we got 4 points last week it’d be a massive improvement but we got 6. Of the options in the running he’s the best of a limited selection to us. No matter who the manager is or how rest of this season goes the club needs an overhaul this summer in it’s playing squad and the whole board in my opinion have to answer some pretty tough questions 

[Big Wispy Flossy]

Interesting to read somewhere that kettlewell applied for Alexander’s job a few years back. He’s probably been keeping a close eye on proceedings long before becoming reserve manager /coach or whatever his official title is 

[texanwellfan]

Hard for me to tell on here but do we know for sure what he has been offered? Sounds like he still not accepted? 

[El Grew]

Stuart Kettlewell

Option 1

Offer the job until end of this season then review. If we stay up he gets it on a longer term basis and if we don’t then he returns to his academy job.

Option 2

Offer job on permanent basis with either a rolling 12-month contract or a term contract and let him choose his own assistants etc…

Option 3

Thank him for what he’s done and let him go back to his academy job. Choose either Holloway or McCann.

I accept this may be an over simplification of things and if anyone has other options I’d like to see them. All 3 options carry risk, some more than others but a decision needs to be made soon as it’s unfair on the candidates involved and the players to let it drag on.

Personally, I don’t fancy any of the 3 in the frame but we are where we are and if I had to make the choice it would be option 1 because it carries the lowest risk.

[bobbybingo]

2 hours ago, Yoshi-1991 said:

No, I am more than happy to accept someone that has a few blips on their record, thats the market we are in and always seem to be in. However I think that there needs to be a minimum standard and someone thats ONLY senior team management experience resulted in being sacked for being bottom of the league doesn't meet that standard for me personally, especially when we are trying to avoid exactly that outcome. 

It's not his only management experience. He was co-manager when Ross County won the Championship title. 

[Yorkyred]

20 minutes ago, bobbybingo said:

It's not his only management experience. He was co-manager when Ross County won the Championship title. 

I would imagine Ross county had a hell of a budget for the championship. I seem to remember when they knocked us out of the Scottish cup it was said their playing budget was bigger than ours.

[Yoshi-1991]

24 minutes ago, bobbybingo said:

It's not his only management experience. He was co-manager when Ross County won the Championship title. 

Like you say, as co-manager, once up they then fell off rather quickly and he ended up sacked once he was solo manager. If we are looking for a manager to win us the championship then sure, he might be a good move. However when the chips are down and we are in the dug shit there is not much to suggest hes the man for it. 

[mcguru]

I feel like Noel Edmunds standing before 2 red boxes.

I'm leaning over to him staring him on the eyes...."so....deal or no deal?".

10 secs silence then "right, we'll be back after these messages...."

[bobbybingo]

5 minutes ago, Yoshi-1991 said:

Like you say, as co-manager, once up they then fell off rather quickly and he ended up sacked once he was solo manager. If we are looking for a manager to win us the championship then sure, he might be a good move. However when the chips are down and we are in the dug shit there is not much to suggest hes the man for it. 

Apart from the 2 wins when we are in the dug shit.

Fair enough, but we need someone in charge, so who would you fancy?

[fizoxy]

Kettlewell will have to bring in his own assistant, and potentially additional coaching staff, which will probably be negotiated as part of him taking the role. We will then need to replace him as head of development. Clarkson will go back the job he just started as academy director. 

We will have a pay scale for manager, so whoever comes in is going to be on that, whether it's SK or someone else, and if they manage to negotiate higher it won't be significant.

If we were going to make kettlewell manager, Clarkson assistant, and not replace them in their old roles, I'd call that the cheap option, but as it stands, giving SK the job isn't much cheaper than the alternatives.

He has experience of keeping county up as well, no? Plenty of teams fail at getting out of the championship despite their finances (we were a factor in one of those, against one of our best former managers too). He has the advantage of having won two games for us, so we know he can get something out of the squad. There is no guarantee we will get that from anyone else coming in, or that SK can sustain it. Good thing I'm not involved in the decision, it's a tricky one.

[bobbybingo]

16 minutes ago, Yorkyred said:

I would imagine Ross county had a hell of a budget for the championship. I seem to remember when they knocked us out of the Scottish cup it was said their playing budget was bigger than ours.

That would help explain how they knocked us out. Was it bigger than Dundee United's?

[Yoshi-1991]

1 minute ago, mcguru said:

I feel like Noel Edmunds standing before 2 red boxes.

I'm leaning over to him staring him on the eyes...."so....deal or no deal?".

10 secs silence then "right, we'll be back after these messages...."

This is pretty much it, no matter what we do at this point is a gamble.

 

4 minutes ago, bobbybingo said:

Apart from the 2 wins when we are in the dug shit.

Fair enough, but we need someone in charge, so who would you fancy?

As much as I give him credit for the wins I also put a * next to them, as we had the exact same reaction when Hammell first took over and then dropped off. As I said earlier at this point I don't have a preferred candidate, none of the short list fill me with confidence. If we were talking about the perfect world and looking more long term then I would like to see someone like David Martindale but I can't see us being able to lure him from Livi, we are not enough of a step up and probably a bit of a risk in comparison with how safe his job looks there at the moment but I have been impressed with what hes done with Livi.