2024/25 Ins & Outs Discussion

[Toxteth O'Grady]

Today's BBC gossip:

Aston Villa and Bournemouth are both interested in 17-year-old Lennon Miller, but Motherwell are working to convince the midfielder to stay at the club at least until the end of his contract in 2025. (TeamTalk)

[StAndrew7]

30 minutes ago, Toxteth O'Grady said:

Today's BBC gossip:

Aston Villa and Bournemouth are both interested in 17-year-old Lennon Miller, but Motherwell are working to convince the midfielder to stay at the club at least until the end of his contract in 2025. (TeamTalk)

His deal's up in 2026. 🙄 🤔

I'm assuming TeamTalk mean the end of next season so we can give him another year in the league and build his value.

[bobbybingo]

1 hour ago, steelboy said:

I get the feeling that because Kettlewell never played in the top division he's in denial about levels of quality required. 

Funnily enough, he did play in the top division.

[StAndrew7]

1 minute ago, bobbybingo said:

Funnily enough, he did play in the top division.

Aye, was there at least a couple of seasons, I think? Spent at least one of them recovering from a bad injury.

[bobbybingo]

2 minutes ago, StAndrew7 said:

Aye, was there at least a couple of seasons, I think? Spent at least one of them recovering from a bad injury.

Yeah, played 50 games over 2 seasons.

[joewarkfanclub]

2 hours ago, steelboy said:

Dylan Easton is 30 and was playing in the Lowland League not long ago. If he can cut it in the Premiership it'll be a bigger shock than Bair.

Given that we already have three midfielders who range from poor to hopeless in Davor, Paton and Halliday it looks like it will be a problem area again. I get the feeling that because Kettlewell never played in the top division he's in denial about levels of quality required. 

Im gonna try and play the ball here and not the man.

Your original point may have some validity. Ive never seen Dylan Easton play, so Ive no idea if he will or wont be able to do a job for us next season.

However, as you rightly say, no one saw Bair being a success and he has been by quite a margin.

However, its your second paragraph that I have to disagree with and it diminishes any value anyone could place on your first point.

Davor may be a limited player but he is a grafter and his defensive qualities bring value to the team. As does Paton who is a tidy footballer and we missed him badly when he was injured even if it was just for the purposes of giving others a rest. These are the kinds of players we need in our squad as they let others like Spittal and Miller play their football.

I had hoped Halliday would be the same. A good squad player. And admittedly he hasnt really shown anything so far to justify his billing. However, he has been injured and didnt have a proper pre season behind him so hoping he will be better next year.

Point is, none if them are poor or hopeless. So maybe the manager knows more about the quality required in the division than you give him credit for?

[Kmcalpin]

1 hour ago, StAndrew7 said:

His deal's up in 2026. 🙄 🤔

I'm assuming TeamTalk mean the end of next season so we can give him another year in the league and build his value.

I assume so. Either that, or his contract isn't worth the paper its written on.

[Kmcalpin]

49 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Davor may be a limited player but he is a grafter and his defensive qualities bring value to the team. As does Paton who is a tidy footballer and we missed him badly when he was injured even if it was just for the purposes of giving others a rest. These are the kinds of players we need in our squad as they let others like Spittal and Miller play their football.

I had hoped Halliday would be the same. A good squad player. And admittedly he hasnt really shown anything so far to justify his billing. However, he has been injured and didnt have a proper pre season behind him so hoping he will be better next year.

Point is, none if them are poor or hopeless. So maybe the manager knows more about the quality required in the division than you give him credit for?

I agree with most of that. I think Paton is underrated. He's no worldbeater but he brings an energy and mobility to the midfield no-one else does.  I'm not convinced at all about Davor. Yes, he is the type of player we need, but he's just too lightweight.

Despite his pugnacious language, Steelboy has a point about our midfield. All season it has failed to protect our central defence. Now thats a down to a combination of factors: players being played out of position (some moreso than others), the wrong combination being fielded and just not having a solid out and out defensive midfielder.  I've been really impressed with Lennon Miller, but feel that his best position is slightly further forward than where he's been deployed. I take your point about Halliday's fitness, but am wary about us placing too much reliance on him next season.

In short, our defensive frailties this term have not all been down to a shaky goalie and erratic central defence.  That midfield weakness needs rectified. As we seem to be in a "Raith Rovers" mode right now, the kind of player we need is Scott Brown. However, I believe he's under contract form another year. A tenacious, hard tackling leader; thats what we need..  

[steelboy]

The idea that a preseason is going to turn Halliday around is magical thinking. His legs are gone and the opposition are already targeting him. 

Obika was a total write off from the League Cup group stages this season.  Halliday will be the same.

[StAndrew7]

19 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

I agree with most of that. I think Paton is underrated. He's no worldbeater but he brings an energy and mobility to the midfield no-one else does.  I'm not convinced at all about Davor. Yes, he is the type of player we need, but he's just too lightweight.

Despite his pugnacious language, Steelboy has a point about our midfield. All season it has failed to protect our central defence. Now thats a down to a combination of factors: players being played out of position (some moreso than others), the wrong combination being fielded and just not having a solid out and out defensive midfielder.  I've been really impressed with Lennon Miller, but feel that his best position is slightly further forward than where he's been deployed. I take your point about Halliday's fitness, but am wary about us placing too much reliance on him next season.

In short, our defensive frailties this term have not all been down to a shaky goalie and erratic central defence.  That midfield weakness needs rectified. As we seem to be in a "Raith Rovers" mode right now, the kind of player we need is Scott Brown. However, I believe he's under contract form another year. A tenacious, hard tackling leader; thats what we need..  

Yeah, I agree with all of that just about. Davor is great in terms of his tenacity and his enthusiasm; like, he really does love playing football and seems to be really enjoying himself at the club (I think him and Bair being best pals and how much he celebrates with Bair when he scores is evidence of that). He's a bit too small/weak at times, I agree, but some strength and conditioning work in preseason should hopefully help with that.

One of my biggest frustrations with Paton is his decision making; on numerous occasions he's waltzed through a few defenders into the 18 yard box, sometimes to the penalty spot and decided to play a backward or sideways pass. Just shoot the thing. With quick feet like that he's the kind of midfielder who could get 5+ goals a season from those situations if he just had the confidence to have a go.

I think you're correct re: the midfield; we definitely need a sitting 6 type DM; or a stronger 8 to play alongside Davor. I can't see anyone of our current midfield filling that role competently all season.

6 minutes ago, steelboy said:

The idea that a preseason is going to turn Halliday around is magical thinking. His legs are gone and the opposition are already targeting him. 

Obika was a total write off from the League Cup group stages this season.  Halliday will be the same.

I don't think anyone is expecting Halliday to be a world beater or anything, just that he'll be slightly less off the pace than he has been at times this year when he's played. He could potentially fill that sitting 6 role if we need it, although it would reek of desperation to me; I'd rather he was used as back-up for the starting midfield, in whatever form it takes.

[joewarkfanclub]

11 minutes ago, steelboy said:

The idea that a preseason is going to turn Halliday around is magical thinking. His legs are gone and the opposition are already targeting him. 

Obika was a total write off from the League Cup group stages this season.  Halliday will be the same.

That may well be.

But he has a season option so Id like to wait and see.

Hearts certainly didnt think he was up to it with them anymore, but I guess it depends what we see his role as.

Obika was always a risk with his injury record. Im hoping some of last seasons signings were down to budget and circumstances. We could do without making some of those mistakes again.

[steelboy]

22 minutes ago, StAndrew7 said:

 

I don't think anyone is expecting Halliday to be a world beater or anything, just that he'll be slightly less off the pace than he has been at times this year when he's played. He could potentially fill that sitting 6 role if we need it, although it would reek of desperation to me; I'd rather he was used as back-up for the starting midfield, in whatever form it takes.

In every game he's played opponents have run round him like he's not there. Why have him at all? It's just pissing money away and if the manager can't see that he's done then it's worrying. 

The biggest issue with Davor is that he's a man down in possession. You can't have three centrebacks plus a midfielde who is only able to pass it backwards or five yards sideways. It makes the game easy for the other team. 

[StAndrew7]

21 minutes ago, steelboy said:

In every game he's played opponents have run round him like he's not there. Why have him at all? It's just pissing money away and if the manager can't see that he's done then it's worrying. 

The biggest issue with Davor is that he's a man down in possession. You can't have three centrebacks plus a midfielde who is only able to pass it backwards or five yards sideways. It makes the game easy for the other team. 

I can't really argue with your logic re: Halliday but I'm willing to give him a chance for now but the initial signs aren't promising other than him being "fine" at points.

Davor's job is win the ball back and give it to someone who can play those passes. Not having that in our team isn't a reason to criticise his role; he's not got a left foot like Goss. Granted, when I did some research on him after he signed, I felt like he could be that role but he's not quite there yet. Hopefully he'll get there.

[wellfan97]

Just now, wellgirl said:

I assume he was signed for a reason - given how threadbare our squad was at that point in time. 

I doubt he was signed for his passing ability either we already had the likes of spittal, miller, Slattery and Paton at that point to do the more attacking/possession based stuff whereas Davor is good and breaking up play and a good tackler. Since we begun to play him more often our form picked up.

[Spit_It_Out]

My problem with Slattery is he starts the season great for first month then he slowly goes missing it's been the same every season he has been with us.

Easily replaced in my book don't think he has pushed on as the club would have hoped he would.

 

[weeyin]

37 minutes ago, Spit_It_Out said:

My problem with Slattery is he starts the season great for first month then he slowly goes missing it's been the same every season he has been with us.

Easily replaced in my book don't think he has pushed on as the club would have hoped he would.

 

Haven't seen that at all. Statistically he commits more fouls than most players in the league and is fouled more often than most players in the league.

That isn't someone gone missing. 

I think he's been missed since his injury.

[steelboy]

1 hour ago, Spit_It_Out said:

My problem with Slattery is he starts the season great for first month then he slowly goes missing it's been the same every season he has been with us.

Easily replaced in my book don't think he has pushed on as the club would have hoped he would.

 

Taking away his injury he had 2.5 years at the club and was fit and on form for about a month at the longest at the beginning of this season. Then after the first international break he went back to his old self. 

He's had far more chances than most already. 

[texanwellfan]

What offers are pending to existing players? Now that we are guaranteed premier status we should be able to bring those to a quick close one way or the other.  Either you want to continue to play for Motherwell or you are moving on. Decide now, so we know what we have to do. 

[Spiderpig]

1 minute ago, wellgirl said:

Kettlewell said in the press that all 15 out of contract players had been spoken to - this was at the beginning of April. 

Remember spoken to could mean " thanks for your service but we're not offering you a new deal" I think there will be a bit of a clear out come June, it will be interesting to see who's left.

[TheoBair14]

Can’t see Miller going to Hibs better to stay here 
 

https://x.com/robertsantonna4/status/1787540457989570790?s=46&t=Yi0H3LakxlXxc5QEsuI9Ug

[thewelllfan]

Bournemouth want to buy him and they'll loan him to Hibs to let him keep developing not sure that would be his best career move anyway. Imo we shouldn't be selling Miller for anything less than Aberdeen sold Calvin Ramsey for in any case. 

[joewarkfanclub]

26 minutes ago, thewelllfan said:

Bournemouth want to buy him and they'll loan him to Hibs to let him keep developing not sure that would be his best career move anyway. Imo we shouldn't be selling Miller for anything less than Aberdeen sold Calvin Ramsey for in any case. 

I dont think we should be selling him to Bournemouth for that very reason. And certainly not at a cut price.

I have it in my head that he is worth at least what we got for Turnbull. 

He has 2 years left on his deal. Best to keep him developing in our first team and sell him when the right bid comes in. As it will.

[steelboy]

If Bournemouth make us a good offer it would be daft to worry about whether he'll appear at Hibs on loan. 

[Kmcalpin]

Given the lad's age, I'd be looking at a David Turnbull + fee. Not unreasonable and chickfeed to an English Premier League club. 

[David]

5 hours ago, thewelllfan said:

Bournemouth want to buy him and they'll loan him to Hibs to let him keep developing not sure that would be his best career move anyway.

It depends on what Bournemouth would be willing to pay him, as he'd then find himself still playing football in Scotland close to family for a while, but on much higher wages than we could ever give him. Or Hibs could ever give him either, I'd reckon.