New Investment Options

[Villageman]

11 hours ago, stv said:

Ok Im asking on behalf of the Society right now. Will you tripple your contribution evety month and save our great wee club

Probably prepared to double it, triple it not so sure. Would need some more info first.

Current level of member, how many members contribute monthly pledges. total  monthly income. that way we can say what average payment is. I appreciate early days members paid a lump sum to join, they may or may not continue with monthly payments.

[Kmcalpin]

3 hours ago, Villageman said:

I appreciate early days members paid a lump sum to join, they may or may not continue with monthly payments.

That issue badly needs addressed and the now standard monthly subscription approach needs communicated to all. That was the boat I was in  paying in the odd top up but I'm now changing that. 

[robsterwood]

I don't think our supports big enough for sustained fan ownership model. I pay at match that's enough. Would like to see investor come in. 

[santheman]

47 minutes ago, robsterwood said:

The guy at at mirren is doing well. 

St Mirren are doing well on the park not so well off it.

Soft loans due to be repaid in the next 12 months and one of only 2 clubs who haven't yet made a single repayment on their covid loan.

[robsterwood]

Just now, santheman said:

St Mirren are doing well on the park not so well off it.

Soft loans due to be repaid in the next 12 months and one of only 2 clubs who haven't yet made a single repayment on their covid loan.

Interesting. I think they get donations from mental health charity too and kibble.

[santheman]

19 minutes ago, robsterwood said:

Interesting. I think they get donations from mental health charity too and kibble.

Kibble own 27% of their shares.

[texanwellfan]

53 minutes ago, robsterwood said:

I don't think our supports big enough for sustained fan ownership model. I pay at match that's enough. Would like to see investor come in. 

Agree, we just don’t have the fan base to keep the club at a level where it can compete. Especially if other clubs are going to have investment. 

[Kmcalpin]

I think it depends on how you define "Can compete".

Does it mean: 

A remain in the Premiership..just

B drop to Championship with an occasional foray to the Premiership

C settle in the Championship like Morton or Ayr. 

[MJC]

1 hour ago, robsterwood said:

The guy at at mirren is doing well. 

St.Mirren are a completely different set up to us so it’s pointless comparing us with them. 

[santheman]

22 minutes ago, MJC said:

St.Mirren are a completely different set up to us so it’s pointless comparing us with them. 

They're actually pretty similar 

In July 2021, St Mirren completed their five-year journey to become a fan-owned club. The St Mirren Independent Supporters Association (SMiSA) bought out the remaining shareholding of chairman Gordon Scott to become majority (51%) owners of the Buddies.

[MJC]

9 minutes ago, santheman said:

They're actually pretty similar 

In July 2021, St Mirren completed their five-year journey to become a fan-owned club. The St Mirren Independent Supporters Association (SMiSA) bought out the remaining shareholding of chairman Gordon Scott to become majority (51%) owners of the Buddies.

But they've got Kibble as an independent 'source of money'. They're not like us in that the fan owned model is the main shareholder. That's why they were in a position to offer KvV "twice as much as we could" last month, even though he didn't end up going there.

[Kmcalpin]

37 minutes ago, MJC said:

But they've got Kibble as an independent 'source of money'. They're not like us in that the fan owned model is the main shareholder. That's why they were in a position to offer KvV "twice as much as we could" last month, even though he didn't end up going there.

I don't doubt you're right. However, is Kibble not a charity?

[joewarkfanclub]

55 minutes ago, MJC said:

But they've got Kibble as an independent 'source of money'. They're not like us in that the fan owned model is the main shareholder. That's why they were in a position to offer KvV "twice as much as we could" last month, even though he didn't end up going there.

And do Kibble gift them this money, or does it require to be paid back in the form of a soft loan?

[joewarkfanclub]

The Well Society currently own 70% of the club.

We could sell 19% to an investor and retain majority shareholding to generate some revenue if the St Mirren model is so attractive.....

[santheman]

1 hour ago, MJC said:

But they've got Kibble as an independent 'source of money'. They're not like us in that the fan owned model is the main shareholder. That's why they were in a position to offer KvV "twice as much as we could" last month, even though he didn't end up going there.

Kibble haven't put any money into St Mirren other than the 400k that bought their 27% shareholding. How they've used that I don't know.

They provide training opportunities for young people, help to fund their youth programme and community initiatives much like our Community Trust.

They've also got 1.6m of loans due in the next year and a covid loan of 1m that they haven't started paying yet (according to their own fans)

They are in as much danger as us and pinning all their hopes on player sales (mainly Bacchus)getting them out of the shit.

Anyway who gives a toss about St Mirren.

[texanwellfan]

Compete for top 6 spot. To do that we need finances to retain our better players and ability to offer competitive wages compared to our peers or even teams with larger fan bases like Hearts

[Kmcalpin]

29 minutes ago, wellgirl said:

I've been a well society member since 2018 and Ive been paying a fiver a month ever since because that's all I could afford. That option was on offer to me then. 

I think my mum is going to join as well. She was going to after the video. 

They do have a 3 quid a month option for people on low incomes which is also good. 

You can pay in whatever amount you like ie £2, £6, £8.50, £17 whatever - just contact the Society to arrange (I've asked). The £5, £10 etc options are only there for convenience.

I would reckon that if monthly subscriptions were to cover a shortfall in bad year we're looking at 3,800 members paying in an average of about  £35 each every month. Thats a very crude figure of course and doesn't take into account any other fund raising initiatives.  (£1.6m /3,800/12) 

[Kmcalpin]

7 hours ago, wellgirl said:

I didn't actually know that. I just paid the fiver as it was all I could afford and they must have added the low income option after I joined. That's fair enough though. I can afford the fiver and I'll get my mum signed up tomorrow. 

Well done. Bear in mind too that my figure of £35 is an underestimate as quite a few of of our 3,800 members will be minors paying a lot less than £10 a month. 

[Kmcalpin]

Apologies now being told that monthly subscriptions have to be in £5 levels as per the website.

£5

£10

£25

£50

[well_said]

14 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

The Well Society currently own 70% of the club.

We could sell 19% to an investor and retain majority shareholding to generate some revenue if the St Mirren model is so attractive.....

Would it not be up to the people who own the 19% of shares wether they wanted to sell their shares.

[StAndrew7]

2 hours ago, well_said said:

Would it not be up to the people who own the 19% of shares wether they wanted to sell their shares.

No, it's not about selling shares here (for now, anyway; that may change based on what any investor decides to do with their final offer, if we ever get that far), it's about how much the investor puts in to the club to effectively dilute the value of the other group/individual shareholding.

So for example, I've got my own, privately held ordinary shares right now; those are worth a (very small) share of the club. When an investor comes in, they will essentially purchase shares in the club that dilute mine down to a lower share than they currently represent; that, I assume, will also be the case with the Society shareholding.

[steelboy]

20 minutes ago, StAndrew7 said:

No, it's not about selling shares here (for now, anyway; that may change based on what any investor decides to do with their final offer), it's about how much the investor puts in to the club to effectively dilute the value of the other group/individual shareholding.

So for example, I've got my own, privately held ordinary shares right now; those are worth a (very small) share of the club. When an investor comes in, they will essentially purchase shares in the club that dilute mine down to a lower share than they currently represent; that, I assume, will also be the case with the Society shareholding.

Why would the Society agree to wipe out the value of it's shareholding for no return?

That's giving the club including millions in assets away for absolutely nothing to a foreign entity. Madness. 

[Wishielad]

17 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

I don't doubt you're right. However, is Kibble not a charity?

Kibble is a charity supporting kids at the margins and at risk.

[dennyc]

17 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

And do Kibble gift them this money, or does it require to be paid back in the form of a soft loan?

Kibble fund certain areas of the Club in return for the benefits those areas can provide the kids Kibble look after. Think transport, training and gym facilities, physical and mental heath support and the like. All of this supports the kids and the football club/players. .They can also justify providing funding as those same kids regularly gain work experience within the Club. It is a win win situation and does support the football club financially, but not technically by charitable donations. 

[joewarkfanclub]

4 hours ago, well_said said:

Would it not be up to the people who own the 19% of shares wether they wanted to sell their shares.

No. It would be up to the Society as a whole to vote on the matter. The Society owns the shares not the individual. We are all "members" of the Society.