New Investment Options

[wellwell91]

23 minutes ago, Throughthelaces said:

It’s now gone so I’m expecting the society to start taking charge of the club now. Get the current exec board out and get the adults in charge.

Think some people on here need to have a reality check . 

It’s not Football Manager their playing on their Xbox

Just as a matter of interest how many have taken the time to checkout Jim McMahon’s business CV ????

Answers on a post card

[Throughthelaces]

10 minutes ago, wellwell91 said:

Think some people on here need to have a reality check . 

It’s not Football Manager their playing on their Xbox

Just as a matter of interest how many have taken the time to checkout Jim McMahon’s business CV ????

Answers on a post card

In all fairness any professional who put that proposal forward needs replaced regardless of their cv. Also Hi Jim how you doing mate

[Stuwell2]

Delighted with the news but now the real work begins. 
Firstly I think we need to see and explain to everyone clearly defined rolls for the Club board - need to ditch the “Executive board” pish - and the Society board. 
ie Club board responsible for day to day running of the club, setting budgets and ensuring cash flow for the budgets. WS responsible for ensuring society has cash reserves for unforeseen shortcomings in club budgets, growing the membership, encouraging members to pay regular donations etc. 

After that the two boards need to work together in union to look at ways to encourage external investment in the club and society - no point in both of them chasing the same potential investors for different reasons which could be detrimental and put them off investing. 
Obviously there will now be changes to both boards but if members of the WS board feel they can work with those they opposed on this issue as they feel the other can bring something of value going forward, then I would be willing to trust in their judgment - not saying it’s going to happen but willing to show faith in the board. 

[DunnyMFC]

The whole Barmack thing sounded something out of Dream Team

[stv]

17 hours ago, sinjy said:

The worrying thing for me is that our executive board actually thought the Wild Sheep proposal was a good one. McMahon, Feeney and Dickie have a lot of questions to answer.

Thats why it was withdrawn. So not to embarrass that lot that thought it was a good idea . When the votes were roughly counted they have had an indication of the way the votes were going so far, wild sheep done them a favour withdrawing it to save their faces.

It was a poor deal from our point of view right from the start and had a bit of desperation for investment at any price about it.

[Villageman]

19 hours ago, wellwell91 said:

Think some people on here need to have a reality check . 

It’s not Football Manager their playing on their Xbox

Just as a matter of interest how many have taken the time to checkout Jim McMahon’s business CV ????

Answers on a post card

Well I am one of the names on the post card and frankly less interested in his business cv, more interested in MFC cv and his performance for MFC. I might have a great cv as a road sweeper but would never make chairman of a football club. No disrespect to road sweepers intended

Football managers go to interviews with great cv's., why are so many sacked ? Because it is what you put in in practice not on paper.

[weeyin]

I did read McMahon's CV at the time he was appointed. It was certainly good, but not the most impressive I've seen.

Although I'm an computer geek by profession, my work has brought me into contact with many business people at many levels, including some that work in Mergers and Acquisitions.  There is a huge difference between running a business day-to-day and negotiating a takeover deal, and in my experience, that's the time to bring in the experts.

McMahon definitely did not appear to be someone with experience in those kinds of deals.

[StAndrew7]

20 hours ago, wellwell91 said:

Think some people on here need to have a reality check . 

It’s not Football Manager their playing on their Xbox

Just as a matter of interest how many have taken the time to checkout Jim McMahon’s business CV ????

Answers on a post card

I did at the time he was appointed and similarly to @weeyin, it was ... fine and he made sense as an appointment. Perhaps not for the best part of 10 years, though.

I think there will absolutely be people who are just as qualified (perhaps more so) within our support/sphere of influence to provide the expertise required as a chairperson of the Club.

Personally, I would advocate for that person to be an independent appointment moving forward; so someone without direct links/ties to the Well Society and the Club side of things; to me it's important that if they have the casting vote, they're able to do so with complete neutrality based on what's presented to them.

I'll flip the question to you, as well; did you take the time to check out Erik Barmack's business CV, rather than his content creation/creative one? Because it's severely lacking any kind of business acumen, aside from starting Wild Sheep Productions and having an MBA from 20+ year ago.

[weeyin]

I'd also point out that running a football club is very different from running a traditional business for many reasons. Being good at running a bank at a profit for the benefit of shareholders is not the same as running a football club for the benefit of the community.

That's why many clubs with experienced businessmen at the helm can still struggle.

[wellwell91]

16 minutes ago, StAndrew7 said:

I'll flip the question to you, as well; did you take the time to check out Erik Barmack's business CV, rather than his content creation/creative one? Because it's severely lacking any kind of business acumen, aside from starting Wild Sheep Productions and having an MBA from 20+ year ago.

Yes I did and and I was not that impressed by it … … But wether you admit it or not we need outside investment 

With the best will in the world our fan base will not creat the financial sustainability going forward.

As I said in earlier post getting businesses to commit to sponsorship is a different ball game from getting them to commit to investment.

There has to be some give from WS going forward or we will never get inward investment in the club. This debacle has set this back light years in my opinion. What investor is going to come anywhere near us know.

WS have to stop talking the talk and show us that they can walk the walk … … it will be interesting going forward.

Every other club in the league apart from us and St Mirren have a major outside investor who are the major shareholder of the club.

 

[wellfan]

5 minutes ago, wellwell91 said:

Yes I did and and I was not that impressed by it … … But wether you admit it or not we need outside investment 

With the best will in the world our fan base will not creat the financial sustainability going forward.

As I said in earlier post getting businesses to commit to sponsorship is a different ball game from getting them to commit to investment.

There has to be some give from WS going forward or we will never get inward investment in the club. This debacle has set this back light years in my opinion. What investor is going to come anywhere near us know.

WS have to stop talking the talk and show us that they can walk the walk … … it will be interesting going forward.

Every other club in the league apart from us and St Mirren have a major outside investor who are the major shareholder of the club.

 

Set us back light years?! Sorry, but that’s a lot of hyperbolic bollocks.

If anything, this debacle has highlighted the need for the existence of the Well Society and has proven that fan ownership works in the longterm interests of the Club.

With competent stewardship, appropriate and mutually beneficial investment will come. And I think we can all agree that McMahon has not been a competent steward of the Club towards the end.

As you say, it’s now the Well Society’s turn. Give the new Board a break and the chance they’ve earned.

 

[Onthefringes]

3 minutes ago, wellfan said:

Set us back light years?! Sorry, but that’s a lot of hyperbolic bollocks.

If anything, this debacle has highlighted the need for the existence of the Well Society and has proven that fan ownership works in the longterm interests of the Club.

With competent stewardship, appropriate and mutually beneficial investment will come. And I think we can all agree that McMahon has not been a competent steward of the Club towards the end.

As you say, it’s now the Well Society’s turn. Give the new Board a break and the chance they’ve earned.

 

I concur.

For those dismissive, go and scratch the surface and you’ll find there’s a world of difference to your outlook.

[southernsteel]

21 hours ago, wellwell91 said:

Think some people on here need to have a reality check . 

It’s not Football Manager their playing on their Xbox

Just as a matter of interest how many have taken the time to checkout Jim McMahon’s business CV ????

Answers on a post card

Jim McMahon's business CV is largely irrelevant. His decision making on this specific offer was very poor to say the least. There appears to have been little or no due diligence undertaken, no sanity check on the numbers, almost no engagement with the majority shareholder (The 'Well Society), lot's of "we are the Executive Board and therefore we know everything and you serfs know nothing", not taking into consideration the £millions in assets we have / had in Bair and Miller when presenting the numbers. All of the above tells me more than any CV.

I've been in business for 40 years and never witnessed an Executive Board trying to tell the majority shareholders that they are basically too thick to make an educated decision. 

Have you checked John Boyle's business CV? On paper it looked great - until he got out of his depth and nearly took MFC down with him.

History nearly repeating itself.

Congratulations to The 'Well Society for a famous victory.

 

[StAndrew7]

31 minutes ago, wellwell91 said:

Yes I did and and I was not that impressed by it … … But wether you admit it or not we need outside investment 

With the best will in the world our fan base will not creat the financial sustainability going forward.

As I said in earlier post getting businesses to commit to sponsorship is a different ball game from getting them to commit to investment.

There has to be some give from WS going forward or we will never get inward investment in the club. This debacle has set this back light years in my opinion. What investor is going to come anywhere near us know.

WS have to stop talking the talk and show us that they can walk the walk … … it will be interesting going forward.

Every other club in the league apart from us and St Mirren have a major outside investor who are the major shareholder of the club.

 

I don't think anyone disagrees that we need investment in the Club to help us maintain financial stability. However, I think the rest of what you're saying is catastrophising/taking the worst possible scenario.

What kind of "give" are you looking for, exactly? The WS' proposal includes an entire section on strategic investments in the Club and bringing in external investors.

Why do you think it's set us back light years? I would argue that this has made it quite clear to investors what the fans are wanting; people to come in and provide a reasonable input for a reasonable return and that we won't be taken for a ride.

Every other Club is free to operate how they choose to; I think our model is the best for Motherwell. How many of those clubs are in potentially chronic/crippling amounts of debt to those investors? Sooner or later they're going to want their money back and that'll potentially spell catastrophe for them, just like it did when Boyle realised he'd fucked it.

[wellwell91]

15 minutes ago, wellfan said:

As you say, it’s now the Well Society’s turn. Give the new Board a break and the chance they’ve earned.

 

Your right they’ve put forward their proposals /arguments and deserve the chance to put them into place

It’s one thing putting them down on a bit of paper and a completely different proposition delivering them.

I wish them all the luck in the world … … future of the club may well depend on that happening. 
 

 

[wellwell91]

5 minutes ago, StAndrew7 said:

Every other Club is free to operate how they choose to; I think our model is the best for Motherwell. How many of those clubs are in potentially chronic/crippling amounts of debt to those investors? Sooner or later they're going to want their money back and that'll potentially spell catastrophe for them, just like it did when Boyle realised he'd fucked it.

Have you read the thread regarding the POD stand ???

[dennyc]

1 hour ago, wellwell91 said:

Yes I did and and I was not that impressed by it … … But wether you admit it or not we need outside investment 

 

 

And who exactly is saying we don't need outside investment?

But not at any cost and with little thought of implications. The Society Board have set out a draft plan that seeks to bring in both internal and external investment, initially locally and then from further afield. But it will not, and should not, happen overnight and with a disregard of consequences. Otherwise we might as well have just adopted the Wild Sheep/McMahon masterplan.

And that Society plan must work hand hand with a revitalised, forward thinking Executive Board utilising their experience and contacts to secure additional income/investment streams. With the Club, at the same time, examining all aspects of the Organisation to address any inefficiencies they identify. I genuinely believe that for progress to be made relationships have to be repaired and trust restored. Board adjustments in both areas may assist, but that will take time and protocol has to be followed.

But I do agree the change we all wish to see needs to start immediately, and be seen to start immediately. The Society Board have already reached out to the Club CEO and Board and it will be revealing to see what response they receive. But it is not just up to the Society Board to continue the progress we have seen of late. Every single fan needs to get on board and support their efforts in any way they can.

 

[0Neils40yarder]

2 hours ago, wellwell91 said:

Yes I did and and I was not that impressed by it … … But wether you admit it or not we need outside investment 

With the best will in the world our fan base will not creat the financial sustainability going forward.

As I said in earlier post getting businesses to commit to sponsorship is a different ball game from getting them to commit to investment.

There has to be some give from WS going forward or we will never get inward investment in the club. This debacle has set this back light years in my opinion. What investor is going to come anywhere near us know.

WS have to stop talking the talk and show us that they can walk the walk … … it will be interesting going forward.

Every other club in the league apart from us and St Mirren have a major outside investor who are the major shareholder of the club.

 

Deary me

[StAndrew7]

1 hour ago, wellwell91 said:

Have you read the thread regarding the POD stand ???

... yes? I'm not entirely sure of the point you're trying to make. This was going to be an issue, regardless of the investment.

Barmack's investment was never going to get anywhere near funding a new stadium, nor was any of the money he and the WS were going to put in to the Club be used for that, or to improve the playing squad. It was for his "strategic projects" which may or may not have generated revenue/income to then fund a new stadium.

There's ways to raise the funds for a new stadium, the first being the eventual sale of the land FP is on, once it's properly valued. Then add in sponsorship agreements/naming rights (which may well include strategic investments as outlined in the WS plan), setting aside of % from transfer fees for it and other methods etc.

Here's an example; let's say the Society ends up with £1,000,000 in the bank from contributions over the next 12-18 months. That pot remains as the safety net for the "doomsday" scenario we now know so much about. Income generated after that from subscriptions, fundraising and other ventures can then be set aside into another account/property fund or given to the Club to start building a funding pot for a new stadium, or if the move doesn't need to happen, the start of a pot to renovate/demolish/build a-new the main stand.

I don't think anyone is questioning the need for investment, or the situation we find ourselves in.

[Spiderpig]

2 hours ago, wellwell91 said:

 

With the best will in the world our fan base will not creat the financial sustainability going forward.

Purely on that measure alone, you are probably correct, however our fan base if properly motivated to maximise as many members as it can, develop new revenue streams etc will enable the WS to step up and become more hands on if you like to ensure proper governance at the club going forward.

This will ensure that any future investment offers will be considered in a much better position for the club than the shambles of recent weeks.

I was never a fan of the WS for various reasons but I will probably now sign up and commit to see if real fan ownership can be realised

[weeyin]

We'll find out (relatively) soon enough if we can attract new investors, but for now - even without the additional income from Theo's transfer - no investment is better than a bad investment.

 

[santheman]

It would be interesting and a boost to the fans if the WS let us know how many new members they've attracted since the news broke and how much the DDs have increased.

I know that the WhatsApp group I'm in with some mates (20 in total) who are all WS members are all increasing or already have increased their monthly amounts.

I think we may be pleasantly surprised.

[StAndrew7]

28 minutes ago, santheman said:

It would be interesting and a boost to the fans if the WS let us know how many new members they've attracted since the news broke and how much the DDs have increased.

I know that the WhatsApp group I'm in with some mates (20 in total) who are all WS members are all increasing or already have increased their monthly amounts.

I think we may be pleasantly surprised.

I think Jay posted over on P&B that Sally was completely swamped with people wanting to join and/or restart/update their contributions. It might be a while!

But absolutely agreed; if they can show that they're already on their way to meeting the first bit of #ThePlan by reinvigorating contributions to the WS, it's a solid start!

[Busta Nut]

You won't get a figure of how much DD's have increased. These things are variable and it be mad to announce they are getting £7000 a month more or whatever

 

[dennyc]

2 minutes ago, Busta Nut said:

You won't get a figure of how much DD's have increased. These things are variable and it be mad to announce they are getting £7000 a month more or whatever

 

Subscription totals will be highlighted in the Annual Accounts enabling comparisons to be made. Might be a year or so before that is meaningful though.

To keep the positivity going right now there is no reason why in a month or so figures cannot be made available detailing how many new members have signed up following the Wild Sheep rejection. Also the number of non contributing members that have restarted monthly payments or set them up for the first time.