Aberdeen v Motherwell 27/04/2024

[bobbybingo]

10 minutes ago, steelboy said:

I think we will struggle to replace Mugabi and if you look he's started in 6/8 of our wins plus the games we have defended well at Ibrox, Celtic Park and Easter Road.

I'm not going to miss reading the lazy stereotypes of "nice guy but has a mistake in him". SOD, O'Donnell and Casey all have far more mistakes this season. As for why he's so much nicer than Shane Blaney or Barry Maguire I'll leave that to the psychiatrists.....

 

SOD and O'Donnell. Are those psychiatrists Freudian?

[steelboy]

20 minutes ago, bobbybingo said:

SOD and O'Donnell. Are those psychiatrists Freudian?

I meant McGinn.

I've never seen a player pass the straight to the opposition as much as he has over the past couple of months. 

[robsterwood]

Looking at highlights. It shouldn't have been sending off. Could be costly too with var costing us possibly 100k , after the I Initial 100k approx also for privilege to be cheated. Hope we appeal. Has to come a stage when people take accountability. Ref at my boys 2011 game was better.

[Spiderpig]

1 hour ago, robsterwood said:

Looking at highlights. It shouldn't have been sending off. Could be costly too with var costing us possibly 100k , after the I Initial 100k approx also for privilege to be cheated. Hope we appeal. Has to come a stage when people take accountability. Ref at my boys 2011 game was better.

Watch this, it was a Red card all day long, high tackle, straight leg, studs up, reckless etc etc.

https://twitter.com/afc1903mad/status/1784337585864667351?t=oypvhiAlyiyF0mLH0VXZcg&s=19

[Stuwell2]

That’s a very short clip of the incident which doesn’t give a true account of it and is from a view the the referee couldn’t see.
Watch the full incident and most folk will have a more balanced view of it. 

Vale’s straight leg and studs showing is due to him clearing the ball not attacking the Aberdeen player who runs into Vale and could have seriously injured him - look at the way Vale spins when they collide. As I’ve said before, no intent, no malice no red card. It’s a collision nothing more. 

[wellfan]

11 hours ago, David said:

Kettlewell doesn't see what the fans see, and that's a good thing. Because, for the most part, the fans know hee-haw about managing a football team. 

There's a reason why he's being paid to sit in the dugout while we're paying to sit in the stands. 

That's not the point I made though, is it? My point, and that of others, is that Vale is a striker and that a striker is often wasted when being made to play out of position. If Kettlewell wants to play Vale in another position, then so be it, but these tactical decisions will rightly raise questions and bafflement from fans when they don't lead to positive results. Furthermore, and as you’ve said elsewhere, we wouldn't have a forum if fans agreed with the manager on all his decisions. 

[robsterwood]

15 hours ago, wellgirl said:

The poster cracked a joke and that's all it was in my view. If it's not breaking the site rules then it will stay up. People can report posts they aren't happy with 

I personally don't think debating that post is helpful either. There's plenty of posts on here I've thought have been over the top over the last while. Other people will disagree. Don't see the need to single one post

Yes there possibly is some over the top posts that have been abusive but they should have been called out too. I don't think calling people wankers is a joke really. I do get the sentiment behind it and the humour. Think the word Muppet or nugget may have been less offensive and made same impact? Maybe need to ask Grizzly if the joke meets his parameters.  It was just a bit harsh. Think this post is done for now. 🤔

[robsterwood]

55 minutes ago, wellgirl said:

Club have appealed the red card 

Good. We must keep showing up the incompetence or bias. 

[Kmcalpin]

44 minutes ago, wellfan said:

 My point, and that of others, is that Vale is a striker and that a striker is often wasted when being made to play out of position. If Kettlewell wants to play Vale in another position, then so be it, but these tactical decisions will rightly raise questions and bafflement from fans when they don't lead to positive results.

Absolutely. I don't know in exactly how many games, Vale has been playing behind Bair in an advanced midfield role but I do know thats been the case in the last 2.  We've drawn one of those and lost the other. The single goal we did score was through a defender. Now, its simplistic and wrong to attribute both of those results solely to this one tactical move. However, there is more evidence to show that it has not worked than to show that it has worked.  Then again someone could argue that this move is more about not losing goals than scoring them.  An overly cautious approach if true.

[pretzel]

2 hours ago, Spiderpig said:

Watch this, it was a Red card all day long, high tackle, straight leg, studs up, reckless etc etc.

https://twitter.com/afc1903mad/status/1784337585864667351?t=oypvhiAlyiyF0mLH0VXZcg&s=19

A reckless challenge is a yellow. Never meant to harm the guy, won the ball then accidentally caught the player in the balls. 

[Great Balls of Shire]

3 hours ago, wellgirl said:

Club have appealed the red card 

I doubt we will get anywhere tho, we know what he was trying but on impact it looks bad. I would say it's a 50/50 and they will give official the benefit, otherwise it implies they are incompetent....they don't want to advertise the fact...I thought var could only help but it's made things worse , they get 2 chances to get it wrong 

[robsterwood]

6 minutes ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

I doubt we will get anywhere tho, we know what he was trying but on impact it looks bad. I would say it's a 50/50 and they will give official the benefit, otherwise it implies they are incompetent....they don't want to advertise the fact...I thought var could only help but it's made things worse , they get 2 chances to get it wrong 

Are you saying the sportscene panel is wrong? 🤔 Remember they have played the game as they remind us 

[Spiderpig]

5 hours ago, Stuwell2 said:

That’s a very short clip of the incident which doesn’t give a true account of it and is from a view the the referee couldn’t see.
Watch the full incident and most folk will have a more balanced view of it. 

Vale’s straight leg and studs showing is due to him clearing the ball not attacking the Aberdeen player who runs into Vale and could have seriously injured him - look at the way Vale spins when they collide. As I’ve said before, no intent, no malice no red card. It’s a collision nothing more. 

Bullshit, if it had been the other way round would you have been screaming for a red card for the Aberdeen player, of course you would.

Oh and whether there was any intent on Vales part is irrelevant, it was a reckless challenge that endangered an opponent, as I said red card in any league.

[Stuwell2]

1 hour ago, Spiderpig said:

Bullshit, if it had been the other way round would you have been screaming for a red card for the Aberdeen player, of course you would.

Oh and whether there was any intent on Vales part is irrelevant, it was a reckless challenge that endangered an opponent, as I said red card in any league.

I’ll stick with my view as it’s not reckless either both players were entitled to go for the ball and no I wouldn’t have been screaming for a red card but I’d have been screaming at Vale if he’d pulled out of the challenge and I’m confident our appeal will be upheld. 

[grizzlyg]

10 hours ago, steelboy said:

I think we will struggle to replace Mugabi and if you look he's started in 6/8 of our wins plus the games we have defended well at Ibrox, Celtic Park and Easter Road.

I'm not going to miss reading the lazy stereotypes of "nice guy but has a mistake in him". SOD, McGinn and Casey all have far more mistakes this season. As for why he's so much nicer than Shane Blaney or Barry Maguire I'll leave that to the psychiatrists.....

 

Everyone entitled to their opinions.  There aren't many people you rate so slightly surprised that Bevis is one of them.  And yes I am one of those that regularly refers to him as a nice guy because he is. Anyone wearing claret and amber is a nice guy as long as they don't become an a**e.

COYW

[David]

6 hours ago, wellfan said:

That's not the point I made though, is it? My point, and that of others, is that Vale is a striker and that a striker is often wasted when being made to play out of position. If Kettlewell wants to play Vale in another position, then so be it, but these tactical decisions will rightly raise questions and bafflement from fans when they don't lead to positive results. Furthermore, and as you’ve said elsewhere, we wouldn't have a forum if fans agreed with the manager on all his decisions. 

You said you were 'baffled' that Kettlewell doesn't see what the fans see. He's paid to see far beyond the basics of what we observe. 

We see Vale play for 90 minutes. We don't see him in training every day. 

Kettlewell has to focus on tactical adjustments, adaptability, and overall team dynamics. It could very well be the case that having Vale play up top alongside Bair affects the qualities that Bair brings to the team. It could see him less able to play his preferred game. 

It could also affect the performance of the midfield having two players so far forward, instead of one playing slightly behind and offering an outlet to our attacking midfielders? 

It could be the case that the management team have seen reasons to play Vale slightly behind Bair because it will affect how the opposition defence then goes on to try to deal with them during the game, pulling their defenders out of position and depending on those defenders qualities, maybe that allows Bair more space to get in behind?

Now, I don't know if any of that is true, but it could all be a factor in his decision.

I would wager that it's nowhere near as simple as we like to think, and I'd wager that whatever we see from the stands, Kettlewell and his team see that and much more.

[wellfan]

4 hours ago, David said:

You said you were 'baffled' that Kettlewell doesn't see what the fans see. He's paid to see far beyond the basics of what we observe

You're right. He often seems to see so far beyond the basics that he forgets what many of them are.

[David]

49 minutes ago, wellfan said:

You're right. He often seems to see so far beyond the basics that he forgets what many of them are.

Well, for a guy who seemingly forgets the basics, he's done reasonably well with the resources he has. 

[Kmcalpin]

9 hours ago, wellgirl said:

I completely agree. 😏. I mean hes only an ex professional footballer...what would he know 

Yes, thats certainly true. Because of his background, he does know a lot more about football in general than fans who haven't been involved in professional football. He also knows more than virtually all the fans, about the playing side of the club. 

However, these forums / fora are all about debate; hopefully considered reasonable discussion. Surely its not unreasonable to question the manager's decisions at times or are we going to shut that down? We cannot afford to suppress criticism simply because someone knows more than we do.

I was told by a former teacher to treat anything I was told by salesmen, lawyers, politicians and teachers with a questioning attitude. They might have silver tongues but they're not always right.

Constant criticsm for the sake of it is wrong but so is unquestioning support. Its a fine line to tread.    

[wellfan]

11 hours ago, David said:

Well, for a guy who seemingly forgets the basics, he's done reasonably well with the resources he has. 

He's done reasonably well to keep us up so far with the poor resources he has, but that does not and should not absolve him from criticism. He's on course to achieve the minimum requirements of his job. Bravo. 

10 hours ago, wellgirl said:

I completely agree. 😏. I mean hes only an ex professional footballer...what would he know 

By that logic, nobody is allowed to question anything unless they've practised it, which, of course, is nonsense and leads to the shutting down of debate. See Kmcalpin's comment above.

A point worth noting is that it's not always a hard and fast rule that all players automatically make good managers, so it's a flawed argument to suggest Kettlewell will automatically have more tactical nous than every fan out there just because he's an ex-pro. He may well do, but he's yet to prove that to some due to the outcomes of some of his decision-making, which is where most valid criticism stems from. 

[Spiderpig]

1 hour ago, wellfan said:

so it's a flawed argument to suggest Kettlewell will automatically have more tactical nous than every fan out there just because he's an ex-pro.

Ah I see it's the " never mind working hard to get your UEFA coaching badges, just become a social outcast, spend all your time in the bedroom posting on forums, playing football manager or whatever its called on the PlayStation" argument that will serve you better, ok then

[Great Balls of Shire]

20 hours ago, Spiderpig said:

Bullshit, if it had been the other way round would you have been screaming for a red card for the Aberdeen player, of course you would.

Oh and whether there was any intent on Vales part is irrelevant, it was a reckless challenge that endangered an opponent, as I said red card in any league.

So basically vale shouldn't have challenged? Players can't win at times

[texanwellfan]

1 hour ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

So basically vale shouldn't have challenged? Players can't win at times

For me Vale’s challenge falls into a grey area and could have gone either way yellow or red. The ref showed a red and I don’t see that being changed. Some incidents are a stick on red and some are never a red so as mentioned I don’t think Vale’s challenge fits either of those phrases

[Spiderpig]

3 hours ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

So basically vale shouldn't have challenged? Players can't win at times

Of course players can challenge,  but a straight leg studs up lunge that caught the Aberdeen player in the groin area is not a challenge its assault. 

[wellfan]

3 hours ago, Spiderpig said:

Ah I see it's the " never mind working hard to get your UEFA coaching badges, just become a social outcast, spend all your time in the bedroom posting on forums, playing football manager or whatever its called on the PlayStation" argument that will serve you better, ok then

That's a ridiculous binary argument of qualified individuals vs social outcasts. It is not one or the other, and that is not my point anyway. You've cherry-picked a part of a sentence from my post and commented on it without context. 

Anyone can get all the qualifications required to undertake their role. E.g. Obtain a medical degree to become a GP, a UEFA licence to become a manager, or a teaching degree to become a teacher. However, that in itself does not automatically make those individuals good at their jobs. They can be qualified but shite.

Furthermore, in no way have I said that an armchair supporter is more qualified in this instance. My point is simply that the argument that an ex-pro must know what they're doing purely because they're an ex-pro is flawed.