Motherwell v Ross County 03/08/2024

[wellon]

9 hours ago, wellfan said:

If the club is serious about increasing its fanbase and, therefore, home crowds and revenue, it seriously needs to consider employing a manager who knows what they're doing. No amount of excellent work by the WS and the new CEO will change that, as fans want to be entertained, even in defeat.

This isn't a reactionary view based on the League Cup or today; rather, it's based on a view of Kettlewell's entire tenure, which indicates to me that there's been no real progress made in terms of the overall team performance and identity. He did well with Bair, for example, which I've acknowledged, so it's clear to me that he can coach players at some level and generate success in that aspect. However, a manager needs to be more than that. They need to be tactically astute. 

I understand why Kettlewell is still here and had his contract renewed, and that's simply because the club board has shown itself to be incompetent in recent times. Asleep at the wheel, perhaps, and taking the easy option due to the poorly managed clusterfuck surrounding Alexander and Hammell. So, here we are, and it's groundhog day. 

Ultimately, and unlike Alexander, Kettlewell isn't an arrogant prick and he seems to work hard, but he's just not very good at managing a top flight football team, and that's a shame. Taking last season into account, and given there's only one year left on his contract, I think it's a matter of when and not if now.

Unless he has a good first half of the season, the calls for him to be replaced as we approach January will be deafening. It's probably fair to say that match day attendances will only continue to stagnate, at best, if he continues to serve up crap and sign duds and crocks. We'll reap what we sow. 

The attendances weren't much better when robbo had us 3rd in league...now he's got st mirren gig and they seem to be on the up.

There'll be a lot of factors affecting attendance,  the 1st half yesterday wouldn't really encourage me if I was on the fence , I don't think sk style of football is that big a factor. 

We got around 5k first game after winning cup, it's just where we are

Good luck to anyone who tries anything though.

[MJC]

The club have tried everything to increase our gates but to no avail. Be it free tickets for kids, bring a friend for a fiver and John Boyle’s £5 for adults £1 for kids when he took over, our attendances never increased. And onfield success like winning the Scottish Cup and finishing 2nd two years running did nothing to increase it either.

The simple truth is that outwith the small faithful core of diehards who never miss home games our overall support is poor. We have lazy, fair weather fans who turn up for Cup finals and trips to Hampden (a lot of whom shout long and loud about how big a Well fan they are and who they are so superior to Old Firm glory hunters without a shred of irony or self awareness  ) but run of the mill games they are nowhere to be seen. 

[StAndrew7]

11 minutes ago, MJC said:

The club have tried everything to increase our gates but to no avail. Be it free tickets for kids, bring a friend for a fiver and John Boyle’s £5 for adults £1 for kids when he took over, our attendances never increased. And onfield success like winning the Scottish Cup and finishing 2nd two years running did nothing to increase it either.

The simple truth is that outwith the small faithful core of diehards who never miss home games our overall support is poor. We have lazy, fair weather fans who turn up for Cup finals and trips to Hampden (a lot of whom shout long and loud about how big a Well fan they are and who they are so superior to Old Firm glory hunters without a shred of irony or self awareness  ) but run of the mill games they are nowhere to be seen. 

I include myself as a "partially" lapsed fan. I've been to Edinburgh City and Montrose this season, so 40% of them; I reckon I probably make it to about 30-50% of our home games and the odd away trip over a season.

I had a season ticket as a boy, then stopped it when I started doing first aid cover with St Andrews at the games. When I stopped that never took up a ST again. Part of that was financial, part of that was down to not being able to attend games for personal reasons. 

There was a decent thread over on P&B about "Your Limits" and I said that for me, a ticket package of a run of home games with a bit of a discount would be ideal. For example, I now know that I won't be at many games over the next couple of months, as the our first baby is going to arrive any day now. But come November/December/January I'd definitely think about buying a 3-5 match package to cover games I know I can make and can have a plan around.

[Ya Bezzer!]

9 hours ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

St  Mirren , Kilmarnock, Dundee are bucking that trend , all have seen significant improvement in the home support. St Mirren are averaging nearly 1000 a match more than us and its not free tickets before anyone  offers this as a reason, there is zero evidence to back up that claim.  

https://www.worldfootball.net/attendance/sco-premiership-2023-2024/1/

 

Kilmarnock have always been a slightly bigger club and Dundee are a city club.

St. Mirren are having their best spell of form in decades, it remains to be seen what happens when they drop off but let's also remember that Paisley is a much bigger town than Motherwell.

[couttsy]

The Dundee Derby showing up just how poor our midfield was yesterday. Both teams have mobile midfield players bursting forward, the exact opposite of us.

Fortunately both also look shaky at the back!

[mio]

10 minutes ago, couttsy said:

The Dundee Derby showing up just how poor our midfield was yesterday. Both teams have mobile midfield players bursting forward, the exact opposite of us.

Fortunately both also look shaky at the back!

Both teams are absolutely miles ahead of us in my opinion.

dont want to be a doom merchant but it’ll be a fight this season between us ross county and st Johnstone. To lose out on 2 points yesterday was not good. Just hoping we get a few midfielders back (as those on display yesterday, apart from miller, will not do) and AP turns out to be a player.

[MJC]

2 hours ago, StAndrew7 said:

I include myself as a "partially" lapsed fan. I've been to Edinburgh City and Montrose this season, so 40% of them; I reckon I probably make it to about 30-50% of our home games and the odd away trip over a season.

I had a season ticket as a boy, then stopped it when I started doing first aid cover with St Andrews at the games. When I stopped that never took up a ST again. Part of that was financial, part of that was down to not being able to attend games for personal reasons. 

There was a decent thread over on P&B about "Your Limits" and I said that for me, a ticket package of a run of home games with a bit of a discount would be ideal. For example, I now know that I won't be at many games over the next couple of months, as the our first baby is going to arrive any day now. But come November/December/January I'd definitely think about buying a 3-5 match package to cover games I know I can make and can have a plan around.

Life happens, I get that. People have genuine reasons why they can’t get to games regularly or atall. But there are fans out there who could be at Fir Park but instead opt for the pub/the golf/the bowls etc. That’s their choice obviously, but the it’s just a pity that we have a lot of fans who don’t prioritise going to support the team and the club. 

1 minute ago, mio said:

Both teams are absolutely miles ahead of us in my opinion.

dont want to be a doom merchant but it’ll be a fight this season between us ross county and st Johnstone. To lose out on 2 points yesterday was not good. Just hoping we get a few midfielders back (as those on display yesterday, apart from miller, will not do) and AP turns out to be a player.

Correct, both Dundee sides look significantly better than us. Both have better forward options and both have players who can create opportunities for those forward players. And both have better managers than we have. 
 

It’s going to be a long, tough and uncomfortable season. 

[Yodo]

6 minutes ago, mio said:

Both teams are absolutely miles ahead of us in my opinion.

dont want to be a doom merchant but it’ll be a fight this season between us ross county and st Johnstone. To lose out on 2 points yesterday was not good. Just hoping we get a few midfielders back (as those on display yesterday, apart from miller, will not do) and AP turns out to be a player.

We have no quality midfielders apart from Miller at the club the rest are jobworths and crocks  who Kettlewell has signed . Need some good loan players in soon  

[Spit_It_Out]

12 minutes ago, mio said:

Both teams are absolutely miles ahead of us in my opinion.

dont want to be a doom merchant but it’ll be a fight this season between us ross county and st Johnstone. To lose out on 2 points yesterday was not good. Just hoping we get a few midfielders back (as those on display yesterday, apart from miller, will not do) and AP turns out to be a player.

Yep 17 year old Miller can't be expected to carry that midfield on his own needs some help and he isn't going to get that from Halliday that's for sure.

Hope Kettlewell uses the loans to get some help in the midfield and add a creative spark to the squad.

I shall say one thing I am so pleased with big Ox in goal think he will turn out good for us.Early doors but isn't shy about coming off his line which is a good thing.

 

 

[El Grew]

20 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

I felt very sorry for Lennon Miller today. Despite me being 15 minutes late, I saw him suffer 3 very bad tackles before half time. He simply looked intimidated and should have been hooked at half time for his own good. 

Totally agree. He’s the only real creative player we have at the club. The opposition know this and know that if they stop him playing (by fair means or foul) then we’ve no other threat.

[Stuwell2]

RC are a big team set up to sit back, defend / bully and hope to get something on the break / set pieces. We can expect StJ, StM, Killie and both Dundee teams to do similar when they come to FP. 
I always thought we looked better away from home against those teams - Dutd apart - last season as those teams were more likely to attack us more when at home. The OF apart against Aberdeen and the Edinburgh clubs were the only ones to have a go at us at FP. 
I think that last season we would have lost yesterday’s game so I suppose we should be taking some good from that. 

[santheman]

St Mirren have done a few deals in the last couple of seasons.

24 quid for 2 adults and up to 20 under 12's from youth groups/teams.

200 season tickets given out  (2 to  every primary school in Renfrewshire).

I believe that the Kibble Trust also give out free tickets to disadvantaged kids in the area.

All these incentives will have added to their gates although having a good couple of seasons playing well and having European football will also have had a positive effect.

Maybe we need to look at doing similar things (or possibly we already do?)

[Spiderpig]

Clubs like St Mirren and Kilmarnock suffer the same issue as we do ie we all play in west central Scotland and as such the vast majority of the football fans are following the ugly sisters.

As far as I can recall our support has been at or around the level it's at now for the last 40 odd years irrespective of how well we do or not. St and Killie have slightly bigger supports but not by a great deal.  We can run various offers and schemes etc and crowds may increase temporarily but over the season they will average out to their current levels.

Our potential fanbase is limited and that was the main concern i had and still have re the WS making fan ownership effective.  So for me id rather have long term initiatives to improve the fan experience for our core support instead of short term projects that ultimately show no long term benefit, we are what we are.

[joewarkfanclub]

I think reducing the prices for away fans would go a long way to improving attendances and increasing revenues.

We should look at capped prices for season ticket holders as long as its reciprocated for our fans.

I think we did that once before. No idea if it was successful or not.

[Spiderpig]

44 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

I think reducing the prices for away fans would go a long way to improving attendances and increasing revenues.

We should look at capped prices for season ticket holders as long as its reciprocated for our fans.

I think we did that once before. No idea if it was successful or not.

£5 or £10 off a ticket price would not have persuaded any more RC fans to travel down from Dingwall yesterday, most away supports are terrible it only the uglies, Hearts and Hibs that get anywhere near filling the south stand.

Also is it not against league rules to charge fans  different price for similar areas of the ground ,plus offering a Say £5 discount to the 200 odd RC fans who turned up on Saturday would cost the club £1K, repeat the same with the uglies and it's 4,000 fans at £5. So it's not good fiscal policy.

[steelboy]

2 hours ago, Stuwell2 said:

I think that last season we would have lost yesterday’s game 

The Liam Kelly effect.

[steelboy]

59 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

£5 or £10 off a ticket price would not have persuaded any more RC fans to travel down from Dingwall yesterday, most away supports are terrible it only the uglies, Hearts and Hibs that get anywhere near filling the south stand.

Also is it not against league rules to charge fans  different price for similar areas of the ground ,plus offering a Say £5 discount to the 200 odd RC fans who turned up on Saturday would cost the club £1K, repeat the same with the uglies and it's 4,000 fans at £5. So it's not good fiscal policy.

Old Firm fans don't go in that area. 

If they are getting corralled in the area where the seats don't even have backs then they should be the cheapest seats in the ground.

[Spiderpig]

19 minutes ago, steelboy said:

Old Firm fans don't go in that area. 

If they are getting corralled in the area where the seats don't even have backs then they should be the cheapest seats in the ground.

As i said in the original post, they go in the south stand as do 99% of the away fans, the only reason the RC fans are in the side of the POD is because it's not worth opening the south stand for such small numbers. Although they do seem to take a random approach to it as the Edinburgh city fans were in the top tier for the league cup game.

[santheman]

41 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

As i said in the original post, they go in the south stand as do 99% of the away fans, the only reason the RC fans are in the side of the POD is because it's not worth opening the south stand for such small numbers. Although they do seem to take a random approach to it as the Edinburgh city fans were in the top tier for the league cup game.

They were put up there because of the  reputation of their wee Ultras who got a friendly abandoned the previous week.

[Ya Bezzer!]

3 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

I think reducing the prices for away fans would go a long way to improving attendances and increasing revenues.

There is probably more scope for increasing attendances doing that than trying to get more home fans.

Although it comes with a disadvantage if Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen fans are outnumbering us at home.

[Kmcalpin]

9 hours ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

 but let's also remember that Paisley is a much bigger town than Motherwell.

Two very different areas and in its strictest sense we're comparing apples and oranges. In the main, Paisley is a single large town, whereas Motherwell isn't. Its a large combined urban area comprising several towns and villages a bit like Levenmouth or Stoke. Add in the likes of Wishaw, Netherton, Craigneuk, Newmains, Cambusnethan, Carfin, Newarthill, and New Stevenston and the picture changes somewhat. 

[Ya Bezzer!]

11 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

Two very different areas and in its strictest sense we're comparing apples and oranges. In the main, Paisley is a single large town, whereas Motherwell isn't. Its a large combined urban area comprising several towns and villages a bit like Levenmouth or Stoke. Add in the likes of Wishaw, Netherton, Craigneuk, Newmains, Cambusnethan, Carfin, Newarthill, and New Stevenston and the picture changes somewhat. 

You can do the same with Paisley by including places like Linwood, Renfrew, Elderslie, Kilbarchan, Johnstone, Barrhead etc.

The closest professional club is always going to attract supporters from outlying areas.

[Villageman]

This topic has shown we all have opinions on reasons for non attendance so i thought I would add my tuppence worth. i am 86 years old, both myself and partner have heart issues, she is also confined to wheelchair so carer has to be available in emergency. It also means that most home tasks are mine. home for me is a 70 mile round trip to Fir Park yet at the beginning of the season I look forward to going to the football and keen to go the League Cup games. Elgin, Annan, Dumfries. Montrose just a few examples. Grounds I have never been to must be the attraction. I can drive but refrain from driving 100+ miles twice on the same day so I stay overnight or week end. i have supported Well for 75 of my 86 years and during that time I have seen some great football, ie Ancell Babes (still didn't win anything). What switches me off is the mostly crap football on show under GA and SK. Partick and RC displays have already questioned my enthusiasm for the Hearts game.

Rant over

[Kmcalpin]

1 hour ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

You can do the same with Paisley by including places like Linwood, Renfrew, Elderslie, Kilbarchan, Johnstone, Barrhead etc.

The closest professional club is always going to attract supporters from outlying areas.

I get that its a matter of definition but we could also include Bellshill, Carluke, Law, Shotts, Overtown, Holytown, Lanark, Allanton, Cleland. and the likes. I must do a comparison. 

[joewarkfanclub]

37 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

I get that its a matter of definition but we could also include Bellshill, Carluke, Law, Shotts, Overtown, Holytown, Lanark, Allanton, Cleland. and the likes. I must do a comparison. 

We are not The Pride of Lanarkshire for nothing! 😍😍😍

I wonder if St Mirren consider themselves to be The Pride of Renfrewshire? 😆😆😆