The CEO’s monthly chat

[gaz7]

17 hours ago, David said:

You're right, it does sound crazy. 

It’s much more likely that ticket sales were well within capacity, and that some Celtic fans who had purchased tickets for the top tier decided they were not happy with the view and chose to watch the game from the bottom tier instead, leading to overcrowding there. 

Which is exactly what Brian Caldwell says in his email. The migration from top tier to bottom is an issue that will need to be addressed I think.

Ticket sales no doubt would have been as required . But in my view there was more than that in ground as no spaces in either top or bottom tier or either of aisles.

[0Neils40yarder]

Brian Caldwell, in my opinion, is doing a very good job in his early days at the Club...comes across well, is engaging with fans and the community, he's moving to get players tied down on longer contracts...

...but he's kidding nobody (apart from David and Wellgirl), that the South Stand wasn't overcrowded with they manky gits...why would he 'lie'? 

 

Maybe he's getting duff info from whoever collates our safety data...maybe by admitting there were issues could see the club in hot water and he is working on how to combat their next visit behind the scenes...who knows, but this will bite us on the bahookie if we allow it to continue. 

[0Neils40yarder]

19 minutes ago, wellgirl said:

Why would the club sell more tickets to a section than it can hold safely? As I said previously - someone else said that the thought a door had been kicked in - but there's nothing to evidence that. So why would Motherwell fc sell 500 more tickets than the stand can hold? It's not going to make that much in extra income. 

Surely if you buy a ticket online once the stand is sold out that's it. There isn't any evidence that we let 500 people in who shouldn't have been there - it's all conjecture 

BTW you are completely right that there shouldn't be people over crowding the stairwells - but that's a stewarding issue and if they are being prevented from doing their jobs something is wrong - and if the suggestion is that the fans were just left there incase they kicked off - that's also completely unacceptable. 

We didn't sell more tickets...Celtic fans found novel ways to enter the ground without having a ticket bought from Motherwell Football Club.

 

I seen you state that people don't double-up to get into the ground - I can assure you they do.

[David]

18 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

I dont think for a minute that Brian Caldwell is lying. He is making a response with the data available. Its good to hear that preventative measures were in place, as it protects the club, but the stand was clearly overcrowded.

There were no huge empty spaces in the top tier. In fact there were fans standing on the stairwells up there too.

Given that you couldnt actually see any of the stairwells on the bottom tier, there would have to have been huge gaps in the top tier for migration to be the only problem. Something clearly doesnt add up.

I think the matter requires further examination.

If this is true, it means he's being misled by those working for him. It implies that the staff at the club have such little regard for the CEO that they fail to provide him with accurate information, resulting in him responding to questions with incorrect details.

18 hours ago, wellgirl said:

Im very much of the view that we should cut their allocation 

Are we really going to forfeit that crucial cash boost from ticket sales? We can’t be shouting about our need for investment on the one hand and then turning away six-figure sums from ticket revenue on the other. The reality is, we’re not in a position to reduce their allocation any further, no matter how much we might prefer to.

11 hours ago, Spiderpig said:

I'm giving the club the benefit of the doubt and assuming they are not selling 5,500 tickets for a 5,000 capacity stand so yes I do. The green uglies have previous for it, so I suspect another emergency exit or two has been forced open, and nothing done to prevent it.

As I mentioned earlier, if what you say is accurate, then Brian Caldwell is being deceived by those around him. It must be one or the other: he’s either lying or being lied to. In either scenario, it represents a significant issue that extends far beyond Celtic supporters gaining entry without tickets.

Personally, I’m not inclined to make such a judgement based solely on what I could observe from the O'Donnell stand during the game. In situations like this, you either trust the individual responsible for managing the club or assume that there are various questionable activities occurring behind the scenes at Fir Park.

I don’t believe that to be the case.

[Kmcalpin]

1 hour ago, wellgirl said:

Im not disagreeing with you here but speaking as someone who stewarded for a few years including at Fir Park crowd control is very much part of a stewards role. They absolutely can enforce crowd control measures and if they are being prevented from doing so that's a huge concern 

I recall a few years ago when Celtic were our guests. The Celtic fans housed in the South end POD Stand stood up en masse for the entire game. As a result we couldn't see that corner of the pitch. We asked a steward to politely request them to sit down  as standing wasn't permitted. The steward consulted his boss, who in turn asked the Police for their take. We were told the Police instructed the head steward to take no action. We were advised to move.   

[well_said]

14 minutes ago, David said:

If this is true, it means he's being misled by those working for him. It implies that the staff at the club have such little regard for the CEO that they fail to provide him with accurate information, resulting in him responding to questions with incorrect details.

Are we really going to forfeit that crucial cash boost from ticket sales? We can’t be shouting about our need for investment on the one hand and then turning away six-figure sums from ticket revenue on the other. The reality is, we’re not in a position to reduce their allocation any further, no matter how much we might prefer to.

As I mentioned earlier, if what you say is accurate, then Brian Caldwell is being deceived by those around him. It must be one or the other: he’s either lying or being lied to. In either scenario, it represents a significant issue that extends far beyond Celtic supporters gaining entry without tickets.

Personally, I’m not inclined to make such a judgement based solely on what I could observe from the O'Donnell stand during the game. In situations like this, you either trust the individual responsible for managing the club or assume that there are various questionable activities occurring behind the scenes at Fir Park.

I don’t believe that to be the case.

Bob the bungler strikes again.

[0Neils40yarder]

1 hour ago, wellgirl said:

 

Doubling up, is very much 2 people going through a turnstile with 1 ticket.

 

Kicking fire doors open is kicking fire doors open

[joewarkfanclub]

1 hour ago, David said:

If this is true, it means he's being misled by those working for him. It implies that the staff at the club have such little regard for the CEO that they fail to provide him with accurate information, resulting in him responding to questions with incorrect details.

Are we really going to forfeit that crucial cash boost from ticket sales? We can’t be shouting about our need for investment on the one hand and then turning away six-figure sums from ticket revenue on the other. The reality is, we’re not in a position to reduce their allocation any further, no matter how much we might prefer to.

As I mentioned earlier, if what you say is accurate, then Brian Caldwell is being deceived by those around him. It must be one or the other: he’s either lying or being lied to. In either scenario, it represents a significant issue that extends far beyond Celtic supporters gaining entry without tickets.

Personally, I’m not inclined to make such a judgement based solely on what I could observe from the O'Donnell stand during the game. In situations like this, you either trust the individual responsible for managing the club or assume that there are various questionable activities occurring behind the scenes at Fir Park.

I don’t believe that to be the case.

Im not implying anything.

The CEO could have been provided accurate information from those in charge of the turnstyles and has communicated it in the belief it is correct.

It is also possible that Celtic fans have found a way to enter the ground whilst circumnavigating that information.

There doesnt have to be a conspiracy.

 

[Electric Blues]

7 minutes ago, wellgirl said:

Some people on here have suggested doubling up is kicking fire doors open

Nobody on here has said anything which could be remotely construed as this. You might have read it somewhere else, but not on here.

[Electric Blues]

4 minutes ago, wellgirl said:

That's odd. Because there's a post from Spiderpig on here a few posts back who suggested that doubling up was kicking the fire doors in. I asked them for clarification when they made their post. Really don't appreciate you suggesting that I'm lying 

I didn't suggest you were lying, merely that you might be mistaken in your understanding of what had been said. If you re-read that post by Spiderpig he says that they came in through the fire doors, but at no point did he - or anyone else - say that this was referred to as "doubling up".

[Electric Blues]

10 minutes ago, wellgirl said:

You're on block. You've made more than one snide dig at me on here - the first one was completely out of the blue, you popped up out of nowhere a few months ago on here to have a  pop at me for no reason - I'm not going to waste my time on people who go in on me for nothing - particularly when you got it wrong. 

Hth 

Oh, very mature. Shame you blocked me before pointing out where I'm supposed to have had a pop at you, and/or a "snide dig", because I don't recall any such occasions. I'm beginning to suspect you have a comprehension problem, or a very thin skin, or both - and if you want to take this as a dig then you might just this once be correct.

[cambo97]

If Police Scotland have prevented the stewards from clearing the stairs, the club needs to get this on record. It will be MFC not the police that will be liable if anything happens

[Electric Blues]

33 minutes ago, wellgirl said:

Ps. No fucks given. I'd rather get on with enjoying tonights win. Have a nice night 

I see you've gone back and edited your post after I've responded, to add a swear word and a dig of your own. Doubly mature.

On 10/29/2024 at 10:43 PM, wellgirl said:

That has absolutely fuck all to do with the matter you emailed him about. The square root of fuck all. 

And not that I never cuss on here, but apparently the late night swearing is a regular thing with you. Do you argue with everybody, or is just a select few?

 

[Kmcalpin]

28 minutes ago, cambo97 said:

If Police Scotland have prevented the stewards from clearing the stairs, the club needs to get this on record. It will be MFC not the police that will be liable if anything happens

This has been raised before, understandably, and the reason usually given for not rocking the boat is that the club doesn't want to upset the match commander(s), as they can make life difficult.

[Electric Blues]

1 hour ago, wellgirl said:

you popped up out of nowhere a few months ago on here to have a  pop at me for no reason - I was apparently on here too much to do well in my degree yes?

you made a snide dig on here out of the blue for no reason when we had never interacted, ever - you could have and should have said nothing.

I had no idea who you were but the first interaction we had on here was you making a snide dig - saying if you study as hard as you post on here you'll do well - completely out of the blue and totally unnecessary 

You didn't need to say that - you just did it to belittle me - and you did. 

More edits after I’ve responded and supposedly been blocked? As a matter of fact we HAD previously interacted on P&B, back in May. You told me your name and a lot more besides, and I told you who I posted as on SOL. The comment you refer to on here was made shortly afterwards as a joke, with a smiley face and all, and you responded with a joke. No idea why you’ve waited almost six months to take the hump. 

[Electric Blues]

Apologies to everyone else who’s being subjected to this tedious argument. I’ll stop now. 

[cambo97]

2 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

This has been raised before, understandably, and the reason usually given for not rocking the boat is that the club doesn't want to upset the match commander(s), as they can make life difficult.

Not as difficult as a corporate manslaughter charge and damages.

I'm being a bit extreme but if the stairs were as crowded as mentioned it wouldn't take much, a last minute winner or controversial goal against and injuries would be likely.

[Yabba's Turd]

6 hours ago, Electric Blues said:

Apologies to everyone else who’s being subjected to this tedious argument. I’ll stop now. 

Maybe don't start them either  all jokes aside.

Doubling up, as told to me by a ticketless celtic fan is more of a 'everyone push behind me and when the turnstyle is released we all pile through', more brute force than covert with the ticketed fan pleading they are being crushed, they did this at celtic park for years too.

[SteelmaninOZ]

 

[Kmcalpin]

Interesting. BC confirms that the Police took the decision to take no action against crowds in the South Stand. As we thought it s a case if there's enough of you feel free to do whatever you want. 

On another note, the club has no idea what its share of the semi final gate will be (almost a fortnight after the game), let alone actually received the cash. That will be pooled but we also get a share of the programme and catering revenue.  

[Spiderpig]

1 hour ago, Kmcalpin said:

Interesting. BC confirms that the Police took the decision to take no action against crowds in the South Stand. ASs we thought it s a case if there's enough of you feel free to do whatever you want. 

On another note, the club has no idea what its share of the semi final gate will be (almost a fortnight after the game), let alone actually received the cash. That will be pooled but we also get a share of the programme and catering revenue.  

I still think that explanation is very suspect Dave, there did not look to be enough spare seats in the top tier to explain the " migration theory" to the lower stand, two of the top tier stairways were also rammed.

As for taking no action as alleged per police advice, the club are effectively sanctioning unsafe conditions, would the police take responsibility if a serious incident had occurred? I think not

[weeyin]

I don't think we have any say in how the police manage the fans or the crowds.

[Kmcalpin]

1 hour ago, Spiderpig said:

As for taking no action as alleged per police advice, the club are effectively sanctioning unsafe conditions, would the police take responsibility if a serious incident had occurred?

In short, No Allan.

[David]

On 11/15/2024 at 10:07 PM, Spiderpig said:

I still think that explanation is very suspect Dave, there did not look to be enough spare seats in the top tier to explain the " migration theory" to the lower stand, two of the top tier stairways were also rammed.

Brian Caldwell being told inaccurate numbers then? 

[Spiderpig]

5 hours ago, David said:

Brian Caldwell being told inaccurate numbers then? 

Well according to him there was 200 tickets not used apparently, they must have been for the hospitality boxes as I struggled to see one spare seat never mind 200.

All I'm saying is that the "migration theory" sounds implausible given what everyone could see. Thats two Celtic games in a row there has been highly visible overcrowding so something is not right.