Motherwell v Rangers League Cup Semi final Nov 2/3

[Kmcalpin]

It was the kind of Hampden display we've sadly gotten used to in recent times. Overly cautious and showing too much respect to the opposition. Sevco were the better team and deserved to win. However we made it easy for them and as one well know "poster" of this site said to me afterwards "We let them win".

I agree with virtually all the points made above so no point in dredging them up again. Our manager does need to learn. We've been a bit hamstrung in midfield due to injuries so far, but its the striking department which concerns me most and those issues were very evident today.   

[Big Stall]

51 minutes ago, stv said:

What about the guy on loan from Hibs , what has he done exactly to get on in a cup semi final. He really looked as if he couldn’t be arsed and was just going thru the motions. They can have him back as soon as possible.

I agree, hes shite as well. To be honest, the two of them were not alone. Personally thought Seddon & his failure to push deep with big gaping spaces infront of him was a massive issue. How much of that is down to the player & how much is managerial instruction is unknown

[SteelmaninOZ]

 

[wellfan]

3 hours ago, Big Stall said:

How much of that is down to the player & how much is managerial instruction is unknown

It was pretty clear to me that the team was instructed to stand off them and let them use the width of the park in front of us. The freedom given to Cerny (their best player) on that wing was always going to hurt us, and it did.

We deserved to lose and they deserved their win. 

[wellfan]

4 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

Our manager does need to learn.

How many times has this been written? There has to come a point where people accept that he’s just not that capable a manager. A good coach, maybe, but nothing more. 

[steelboy]

6 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

Spot on San. Week after week we see aerial balls shelled up to a 6' 

Stama and Robinson are both nowhere near 6 feet tall.

[Big Wispy Flossy]

Shat the bed! We badly missed Paul mcginn to bring the ball out of defence.. subbing off TJ and ap stam never helped any and kaleta getting injured killed off any little attacking threat we had left in the second half. We also need to offload at least three of our midfielders when they are fit, miller (who was also poor yesterday) apart, and replace with one competent midfielder who can tackle and drive forward with the ball. 
Having 40 yards between our centre midfielders and our isolated centre forward is not sustainable against any opposition.

[stv]

Doesn’t help but their second took a skite off our defender to put it out of Ox reach, bit of a unlucky break.

[Kmcalpin]

As good a player as Lennon Miller undoubtedly is, he just doesn't fit into our team structure. Maybe a bit old fashioned and simplistic, but we badly need a mobile hard tackling No 6 to shield the defence,: a quick No 8  to link box to box; and a creative No 10 to support the strikers.  That would give us more options and avoid having to rely on fast wing backs. 

[Spiderpig]

45 minutes ago, Big Wispy Flossy said:

Shat the bed! We badly missed Paul mcginn to bring the ball out of defence.. subbing off TJ and ap stam never helped any and kaleta getting injured killed off any little attacking threat we had left in the second half. We also need to offload at least three of our midfielders when they are fit, miller (who was also poor yesterday) apart, and replace with one competent midfielder who can tackle and drive forward with the ball. 
Having 40 yards between our centre midfielders and our isolated centre forward is not sustainable against any opposition.

I agree, bringing on Robinson and Tavares was a waste of time both of them are brutal, Watt and Ebiye should have been on as they pose more of a threat.

Losing a goal right after half time was the killer, our confidence just went and it gave Rangers a boost they did not deserve, we then got deeper and deeper sitting back waiting for the inevitable winner from Rangers.

I am hoping SK sees what everyone else does that our midfield is grim, at least 2 required  in the January window and a goal scorer would be nice as well.

[joewarkfanclub]

Yesterday was just a load of chickens coming home to roost.

As KMcAlpin correctly identifies, we just dont have a lone striker capable of feeding off the scraps currently being served up.

You could say that is a failure of recruitment, but I dont think SK started the season intending to play that way. 

The injury to Vale has been a big loss for me as I think he is the one player we had that could properly support a loan striker and connect the play.

The injuries to Nicholson, Paton and Callachan have clearly impacted our midfield and we were getting by with McGinn and/or SOD distributing from the back.

Now both of them are injured the balls out of defence are not of the quality required to keep possession.

Sparrow and Wilson have done well when called upon but they offer legs and energy more than great quality.

The only real footballer we have left in midfield is Lennon and he spent most of yesterday seeing the ball fly over his head.

Some will say its all on SK due to poor recruitment, but we have had a lot of injuries to contend with and are already carrying quite a big squad. He would have to have had 100% success in recruitment to cover every eventuality and thats just not possible.

Personally, I think we have over achieved so far this season. Im hoping it will improve as players return to fitness, although I accept, it doesnt always work out that way.

 

[steelboy]

22 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

 

The injuries to Nicholson, Paton and Callachan have clearly impacted our midfield and we were getting by with McGinn and/or SOD distributing from the back.

 

 

It was completely predictable that Callachan and Nicholson would be crocks. Paton is on his third significant injury since he arrived. McGinn is 34. The manager is to blame for wasting so much of our budget on these guys. 

[joewarkfanclub]

15 minutes ago, steelboy said:

It was completely predictable that Callachan and Nicholson would be crocks. Paton is on his third significant injury since he arrived. McGinn is 34. The manager is to blame for wasting so much of our budget on these guys. 

Nicholson had one serious injury before he signed for us. Should we never sign any player who has been previously injured?

Paton literally got studs raked down the back of his achilles v Clyde. So how do you prevent that?

Mcginn is 34. But has played over 400 senior games. He is an experienced pro with no significant injury history and most would agree he has been one of our best players for the past 2 seasons and we missed him big time on Sunday.

I will give you Callachan, but Im thinking he was a stocking filler and therefore a cheap option as we knew Nicholson and Slattery wouldnt be back in the short term.

Players also undergo medicals and are monitored by our medical team on a weekly basis. Are they shite too? Or is it just the stresses and strains put on professional players these days due to fixture schedules result in increasing numbers of injuries due to the pace of the modern game?

[Stuwell2]

Not going to bother reading all the comments from yesterday as I’ve no doubt most will be along the same lines as my view which is 

Given our injuries it was probably the correct line up. 
Given how poor Rangers have been sitting back was the wrong tactics. Was expecting us to try and run at their defence especially Tavenier, not punt long balls that the two central defenders lapped up leaving our forwards useless - totally pissed off. 
As usual with us when  we are involved in big games our youth and inexperienced squad don’t handle it well. 
Substitutions - WTF?

[steelboy]

I would have released SOD but I get the arguments for keeping him and McGinn. But then adding in Halliday, Nicholson and Callachan who are all over the hill was crazy. 

I'd very surprised if Kettlewell wasn't expecting Davor, Stuparevic, Kourotoumbis and Stama to all be more athletic before he saw them in person. I think we probably do as much work assessing players physically prior to signing them as we do in practicing attacking from open play. 

[Spiderpig]

42 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Nicholson had one serious injury before he signed for us. Should we never sign any player who has been previously injured?

Paton literally got studs raked down the back of his achilles v Clyde. So how do you prevent that?

Mcginn is 34. But has played over 400 senior games. He is an experienced pro with no significant injury history and most would agree he has been one of our best players for the past 2 seasons and we missed him big time on Sunday.

I will give you Callachan, but Im thinking he was a stocking filler and therefore a cheap option as we knew Nicholson and Slattery wouldnt be back in the short term.

Players also undergo medicals and are monitored by our medical team on a weekly basis. Are they shite too? Or is it just the stresses and strains put on professional players these days due to fixture schedules result in increasing numbers of injuries due to the pace of the modern game?

No point in explaining the obvious to steelboy if it does not fit his narrative it's ignored.

[joewarkfanclub]

32 minutes ago, steelboy said:

I would have released SOD but I get the arguments for keeping him and McGinn. But then adding in Halliday, Nicholson and Callachan who are all over the hill was crazy. 

I'd very surprised if Kettlewell wasn't expecting Davor, Stuparevic, Kourotoumbis and Stama to all be more athletic before he saw them in person. I think we probably do as much work assessing players physically prior to signing them as we do in practicing attacking from open play. 

Im not saying for a minute that our recruitment has been flawless. Obviously you need a strategic plan for your squad, but sometimes circumstances are fluid at a football club and what seemed like a good decision at one point might not later on. 

I was fine with Halliday on loan last year but I wouldnt have given him a 1 year option. Without it, he may not have come, personally, I dont think that would have been any big loss, but I can see why the manager signed off on it. I wouldnt want to see him getting a further extension past the end of this season.

Nicholson was already in the building and looked like he was being prepared as the Spittal replacement in case he went last January.

Again Callachan is the outlier as he was the one we had the opportunity to not sign at the time. But Paton and Nicholson had just been injured and Slattery was a long termer.

Would have made more sense to go for someone else, I think Gorrin was available, but again, he has had a serious injury as well, so do we know what kind of Gorrin we would be getting?

[grizzlyg]

Yesterday was disappointing as we didn't perform but I can't go fact any time we lose a game it's poor recruitment,  manager is clueless etc etc.  We are sitting 5th and had a great midweek win against team nearest us in table.

Kettlewell blundered big time with subs Yesterday which I think we all agree on. I also don't see point in having koutrombis on the bench and then don't bring him on when kaleta came off, Casey was so uncomfortable in that role.

Our next run of fixtures looks not bad so fingers crossed....COYW 

[Lobey_Dosser]

Vale is a bit of a forgotten man but he would have a key player in linking us middle to front. The injuries to Nicholson and Callaghan though were entirely predictable and we seemingly haven’t done our due diligence on Watt. Long way to go in the season but at the moment recruitment isn’t looking great. 

My main frustration yesterday was the substitution of the front two but we really chucked the game by replacing Kaleta with Blaney. That signalled we had little intent on attacking. There were multiple better options to have made in that moment. 

[steelboy]

I honestly think he fucked up the subs and didn't realise Blaney was the last one. It would explain why he was a bit over animated after the game even by his own standards. 

[MJC]

I can only echo what has already been said, yesterday was a poor performance and a big missed opportunity to reach a Cup Final.
 

Again our poor recruitment and Kettlewell’s inability to spot a proper forward player came back to bite us. The defence had absolutely no protection from the midfield and there was nothing working between the middle and the front. 
 

Robinson is gash, Stam looks out of his depth and you wonder why we brought Watt back on loan if he’s not going to play or isn’t fit enough to contribute. As I said, poor recruitment.

The only upside to yesterday was the support we had at Hampden. 7.5-8k and vocal from start to finish and shows that our core support does have the potential to be a lot better than it is. Unfortunately though over half of them won’t be near another game until we reach a Semi Final again*. Talk about Glory Hunters.
 

*And for clarity, I am not referring to people who can’t go to games regularly for whatever reason. I know these games are special and you will get a bigger support than normal with people travelling from greater distances etc. I am referring to people who absolutely could go to the games but choose not to go.

[David]

8 minutes ago, MJC said:

And for clarity, I am not referring to people who can’t go to games regularly for whatever reason. I know these games are special and you will get a bigger support than normal with people travelling from greater distances etc. I am referring to people who absolutely could go to the games but choose not to go.

The bigger issue for me is finding out why they choose not to go. Obviously, for some, it'll be price, and that's fair enough. Football isn't a cheap pastime anymore. But if there's other reasons, we can hopefully do something as a club to help solve those issues for some people anyway.

[scoojy]

13 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

Spot on San. Week after week we see aerial balls shelled up to a 6' striker on his own up against towering 6'3" central defenders with the inevitable outcome. Nothing sticks. Despite signing a plethora of strikers in the summer they just don't fit together. Some just aren't good enough. Poor recruitment. If we must play a lone striker then surely we should have recruited someone who can play in that role. 

No matter the height of the striker, a ball that he is expected to hold up needs to come in to him below head height in order for him to be able to make it stick. If you're playing it above head height the defender will almost always have the advantage.

Firing aerial balls head height and above is an almost impossible task to control and/or hold up. That only works when there is someone to flick the ball on to.

We possibly should have recruited players who can play passes lower than 7 feet in the air.

[0Neils40yarder]

21 minutes ago, David said:

The bigger issue for me is finding out why they choose not to go. Obviously, for some, it'll be price, and that's fair enough. Football isn't a cheap pastime anymore. But if there's other reasons, we can hopefully do something as a club to help solve those issues for some people anyway.

I've only been to a handful of games over the past 3 seasons due to personal circumstances...I nearly went yesterday but didn't want anyone calling me a gloryhunter so I sat in the boozer instead

[grizzlyg]

39 minutes ago, MJC said:

I can only echo what has already been said, yesterday was a poor performance and a big missed opportunity to reach a Cup Final.
 

Again our poor recruitment and Kettlewell’s inability to spot a proper forward player came back to bite us. The defence had absolutely no protection from the midfield and there was nothing working between the middle and the front. 
 

Robinson is gash, Stam looks out of his depth and you wonder why we brought Watt back on loan if he’s not going to play or isn’t fit enough to contribute. As I said, poor recruitment.

The only upside to yesterday was the support we had at Hampden. 7.5-8k and vocal from start to finish and shows that our core support does have the potential to be a lot better than it is. Unfortunately though over half of them won’t be near another game until we reach a Semi Final again*. Talk about Glory Hunters.
 

*And for clarity, I am not referring to people who can’t go to games regularly for whatever reason. I know these games are special and you will get a bigger support than normal with people travelling from greater distances etc. I am referring to people who absolutely could go to the games but choose not to go.

I think Stama will come good, problem is he isn't getting good service and getting high balls pumped to him all the time