Motherwell v Hearts 12/04/2025

[Kmcalpin]

9 minutes ago, wellgirl said:

Is Gordon unwell - I thought he was injured for some reason but I didn't watch the interview before the match on Saturday 

I believe so. Prior to yetserday's game, the Official Site reported that he was "being assessed", whereas the BBC said that he was out. Thats all I know.

If both he and Balmer are unavailable we either go with a central back two of O'Donnell and Casey or draft in Koutroumbis (???) to the middle as well.

[MelvinBragg]

14 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

If Kettlewell had played Wimmer's tactics and team selections he'd be getting absolutely slaughtered.

 

This, 100% this. I have the feeling that Wimmer will do what Kampman and Baraclough did. Somehow keep us up, bring in his own players and be gone by Halloween...

[MelvinBragg]

5 minutes ago, wellgirl said:

Not so sure. Interviews he's given seem to suggest he's in it for the long haul 

Not suggesting it will be his choice to be gone by then. It wasn't Kampman or Baraclough's choice to be gone by then either...

[twistandshout1983]

1 hour ago, wellgirl said:

I get that but do you think after the amount of managers we've parted company with over the last few months that he would go so soon? 

I would be surprised if Michael Wimmer was to leave in the summer , unless of course he wanted to 

Even if the unthinkable was to happen and we go down in a playoff I would still give him his chance in the championship 

[MelvinBragg]

1 hour ago, wellgirl said:

I get that but do you think after the amount of managers we've parted company with over the last few months that he would go so soon? 

I think it could easily go sour and he could be sacked. If it can happen to a club legend like Hammell, then why not? 

[texanwellfan]

Regardless of whether we get top 6 or not it’s a huge game for us. Obviously top 6 takes all the pressure off but If we end up in bottom 6 then getting 3 points will go a long way to helping us stay out of the play off spot. So we need to go for it and leave it all out on the field. 

[MJC]

2 hours ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

Honest to God.

You'd really rather go into this game as a dead rubber?

It’s anything but a dead rubber but nothing to do with any silly wee dreams about top six, it’s about keeping us away from the playoff spot.

[Stuwell2]

3 hours ago, MelvinBragg said:

I think it could easily go sour and he could be sacked. If it can happen to a club legend like Hammell, then why not? 

I don’t disagree that he could be sacked - most managers are - but I don’t think it will happen quickly. We’ve not been a club that quickly dismisses managers without giving them at least a year unless things are going horribly wrong. 
Since 2014 we’ve now had 7 permanent managers of which only two have been sacked - although I’ve no doubt the club would have sacked Alexander had he tried to stay. 

Baraclough - 9 months, sacked.

McGhee - 16 months, left for Aberdeen.

Robinson - 46 months, left at end of contract.

Alexander - 18 months, left by mutual agreement.

Hammell - 6 months, sacked.

Kettlewell - 24 months, left.

In short, unless the results and playing style are horrendous over the next 6 games leading the board to fear giving Wimmer time and money to spend then I think he will get at least until January.  

 

[Ya Bezzer!]

Wimmer isn't going to be fired.  He's not even had a window.

However I've not been that impressed with what I've seen so far.  As I said when he was appointed he doesn't know the league or the players and I think that's show rather glaringly so far.  He's got a lot to learn and I think he's going to have to adapt his own views on the game to suit a Scottish context better.

Creatively, I think we've gone backwards, the two key players in the squad he's not utilised properly, we've not keep a clean sheet since he arrived and our away form is absolutely abysmal.

This Hearts match is huge.  Win and at the very least we go to 41 points, a historically safe number, and potentially a Top 6 place.  Lose and all the momentum goes the other way.

I don't really think we are any worse than most of the league, the table shows that, but form and confidence are huge at this stage of the season and I do think the situation with Kettlewell leaving has adversally effected the players morale and if we end up in the Bottom 6 I think a lot of the signs are pointing the wrong way.

 

[star sail]

41 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

Wimmer isn't going to be fired.  He's not even had a window.

However I've not been that impressed with what I've seen so far.  As I said when he was appointed he doesn't know the league or the players and I think that's show rather glaringly so far.  He's got a lot to learn and I think he's going to have to adapt his own views on the game to suit a Scottish context better.

Creatively, I think we've gone backwards, the two key players in the squad he's not utilised properly, we've not keep a clean sheet since he arrived and our away form is absolutely abysmal.

This Hearts match is huge.  Win and at the very least we go to 41 points, a historically safe number, and potentially a Top 6 place.  Lose and all the momentum goes the other way.

I don't really think we are any worse than most of the league, the table shows that, but form and confidence are huge at this stage of the season and I do think the situation with Kettlewell leaving has adversally effected the players morale and if we end up in the Bottom 6 I think a lot of the signs are pointing the wrong way.

 

It has surprised me a little how honest Wimmer has been about his lack of knowledge of the Scottish game. That is fine if he has an astute footballing brain that can quickly assess the strengths of his own team and the weaknesses of the opponent. There is little sign in the last few games that this is the case.

I remember when Baraclough was appointed a Motherwell official commented on how thoroughly prepared he was for interview. He had been meticulous in his preparation. I think an example had been given about him having extensive files on potential signings, one of them being Louis Moult.

I am not sure that Managers in the Scottish League are the most sophisticated in world football but they do seem to be street wise and adept at nullifying threat. If Wimmer was able to use an element of surprise in his first few games, that particular honeymoon will be past already.

I would like to think that a German manager working at a relatively high level in the past would have that astute footballing brain but we have not seen it in the last three games. 

The players are clearly running low on confidence. The new manager bounce gave them a lift and we saw in glimpses what they are capable of. Wimmer is going to have to recapture that confidence from the players if the season is going to end with a flourish.

[Spiderpig]

12 hours ago, MJC said:

It’s anything but a dead rubber but nothing to do with any silly wee dreams about top six, it’s about keeping us away from the playoff spot.

The best way to keep us away from the playoffs is to fulfill the silly wee dream and secure a top 6 finish.

[wellfan]

Wimmer can only pish with the cock he’s got, which I am sure we can all agree is useless, so the talk of him being inadequate and/or emptied this early in his tenure is absurd. 

[Ya Bezzer!]

21 minutes ago, wellfan said:

Wimmer can only pish with the cock he’s got, which I am sure we can all agree is useless, so the talk of him being inadequate and/or emptied this early in his tenure is absurd. 

With all due respect I think this is a load of rubbish.

Hammell's team was worse and in a much worse position, relegation very much on the cards, and Kettlewell came in and not only turned it round but went on a great run.

Wimmer has had multiple chances to secure a Top 6 position and not done it.

Of course he needs time to mould his own team and no one is saying he won't do a job in the long run but that doesn't mean that he's doing as well as he should be.

I alluded to it before but I'll just say it out loud now, the two key players in that squad are Lennon Miller and Tawanda Maswanhise, and so far he's show he doesn't recognise that or how to utilise either player effectively.  To me that's a bit concerning.

Managers that try to impose their own style over the strengths of a squad usually either have to concede and change or fail.

[star sail]

40 minutes ago, wellfan said:

Wimmer can only pish with the cock he’s got, which I am sure we can all agree is useless, so the talk of him being inadequate and/or emptied this early in his tenure is absurd. 

It is far too simplistic to say this. You were possibly Kettlewell's most vocal critic and you would have slaughtered him for the last three performances.

This squad of players has internationals and the best young player in Scotland in it. It has accumulated 38 points, one shy of Hearts. Is their squad shite too?

Only three weeks ago this same squad of players put in a good performance against Dundee and an excellent performance against Rangers.

As it stands, Kettlewell had a more impressive start than Wimmer has had. His critics' will say that Van Veen single handedly saved the day but he played KVV to his strengths and reaped the results.

I agree that it is absurd to talk about Wimmer being inadequate. I would tend to champion the cause of managers to a fault. I am pleased to read that you are pragmatic in your approach to Wimmer and I hope you continue to give him your patience but the last three performances go beyond the Kettlewell effect. The picture is always way more complicated than that.

[wellfan]

15 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

Wimmer has had multiple chances to secure a Top 6 position and not done it.

I’ll repeat what I said above. He can only pish with the cock he’s got. To not recognise that is to suggest that this squad is capable of anything other than shite/mediocrity. 

Could he do better? Perhaps.

Is he hamstrung by what he’s inherited? Likely. 

Is the general weakness/crapiness of the current squad on him? Absolutely not.

Should he adapt and change things to suit the strengths/weakness of the squad? Yes. 

[wellfan]

1 minute ago, star sail said:

It is far too simplistic to say this. You were possibly Kettlewell's most vocal critic and you would have slaughtered him for the last three performances.

This squad of players has internationals and the best young player in Scotland in it. It has accumulated 38 points, one shy of Hearts. Is their squad shite too?

Only three weeks ago this same squad of players put in a good performance against Dundee and an excellent performance against Rangers.

As it stands, Kettlewell had a more impressive start than Wimmer has had. His critics' will say that Van Veen single handedly saved the day but he played KVV to his strengths and reaped the results.

I agree that it is absurd to talk about Wimmer being inadequate. I would tend to champion the cause of managers to a fault. I am pleased to read that you are pragmatic in your approach to Wimmer and I hope you continue to give him your patience but the last three performances go beyond the Kettlewell effect. The picture is always way more complicated than that.

Fair enough, but see what I said above. 

[star sail]

Just now, wellfan said:

Fair enough, but see what I said above. 

Likewise, fair enough. I think we were typing at the same time. 

[MJC]

Regardless of the squad he has or the way he’s used his players I will be very surprised if Michael Wimmer is still our manager come the end of 2025. It just has that feel of short term tenure.

[star sail]

3 minutes ago, MJC said:

Regardless of the squad he has or the way he’s used his players I will be very surprised if Michael Wimmer is still our manager come the end of 2025. It just has that feel of short term tenure.

Unfortunately I agree with this. It does not have a feeling of having any real longevity at this moment in time. 

[wellfan]

4 minutes ago, MJC said:

Regardless of the squad he has or the way he’s used his players I will be very surprised if Michael Wimmer is still our manager come the end of 2025. It just has that feel of short term tenure.

Perhaps, but, if he goes, it’ll probably be of his own volition and due to being utterly frustrated by the shite he’s burdened with. 

[David]

20 hours ago, MJC said:

So Hearts lose today at home to Dundee Utd.

That is literally the WORST result that we could have hoped for.

It was quite literally the only outcome that gave us even the faintest chance of making the top six, and somehow you think that’s the worst possible result we could have got?

Completely mad.

[wellsince75]

 
Wimmer got a really positive reaction for a couple of games but that was fleeting. 

Saturday against Kilmarnock should have felt like a cup final. Still a chance of top 6, fighting for contacts, needing to bounce back from a humping against Aberdeen. Sadly we got nada , nothing. 

Mathematically we could get top 6. Realistically feel you'd  need to be in the  'you must be smoking crack' category for this outcome. 

I hope Wimmer rings the changes and puts pace into the team.  FWIW I'd be going with:

                                 Ox

                       Gordon. Casey

Sparrow                                          Wilson 
              Andrews.           Halliday 

                    Slattery     Miller   

           Armstrong        Maswanhise 
 

Tactics - Press , Press, Press with a view to brining on Thompson, Koutroumbis., Paton  Moses when people get tired, 

[Spiderpig]

9 hours ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

With all due respect I think this is a load of rubbish.

Hammell's team was worse and in a much worse position, relegation very much on the cards, and Kettlewell came in and not only turned it round but went on a great run.

Wimmer has had multiple chances to secure a Top 6 position and not done it.

With all due respect that's pish, SK had KVV and Spittal contributing 30 goals between them, MW has Armstrong, Watt or Ebiye so hardly surprising we struggle to score goals and therefore win games

As for MW having Multiple chances to secure top 6, that would be 2 maybe 3 games out of the 6 or 7 he's been in charge, aye OK then.

Some of the posters on here need a reality check at times, does anyone really think we would be any better off after 32 games if SK had stayed, not a chance we would be at least 6 points worse off.

[MJC]

1 hour ago, David said:

It was quite literally the only outcome that gave us even the faintest chance of making the top six, and somehow you think that’s the worst possible result we could have got?

Completely mad.

We need points badly to keep ourselves away from the playoff spot.

Playing a side that are coming off a bad result and who know that they need to win to secure top six does not work in our favour.

Had Hearts won yesterday and secured top six their approach to this game would have been completely different and they may even have rested players ahead of the Scottish Cup Semi Final.
 

They may we’ll still have beaten us as we are hopeless but facing a Hearts side who had already secured top six would have given us a better chance of a result against them than facing a Hearts side knowing they need to win.

[star sail]

43 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

 

Some of the posters on here need a reality check at times, does anyone really think we would be any better off after 32 games if SK had stayed, not chance we would be at least 6 points worse off.

I don't think anybody is still of the opinion that we would have been better off with Kettlewell. His time was up. Also I don't think there will be a single poster on here that does not wish MW every success. 

I think people are reacting to the last 3 games where, had there been a media blackout for a month we could be forgiven for thinking SK was still in the dugout.

I thought Wimmer had that all too familiar Motherwell manager ghost look on his face after the game on Saturday. The jovial light-hearted smile has gone now that he realises the enormity of the task. 

Being positive, we had been really poor under Alexander for months when we needed a reaction against Hearts to clinch Euro qualification and we got it. 

The same again would be perfect.