The co-efficient support or not

[FirParkCornerExile]

I'm curious about other peoples opinions on this.

For the life of me I cannot understand fans of clubs that flirt with European qualification every 5 / 6 years or even longer wanting the regular qualifiers to do well in Europe to improve the co efficient. All an improved co efficient does is put multi millions of pounds into clubs already with a big financial advantage over us and put the OF straight into the league stages and  for what ?the scraps of an extra conference place and periodic qualification. 

An improved co efficient for me hurts clubs like ours , OK we may get into Europe ourselves now and again but that in no way will compensate financially for the money the regular qualifiers get. Our only real hope of success is the domestic cups do we really want to make that harder by hoping another  3 or 4 clubs out with the  OF are significantly financially strengthened, over and above the financial gap even as it is now.

 

Had Hibs got through last night they'd have got a minimum of £5 million and potentially £8 million. Same goes for Aberdeen and Dundee Utd had they gone through. Even now 3 of them get another bite of the financial cherry.

Am I alone in hoping they all get fucked out as early as possible. Frankly I don't give a monkeys what anyone abroad thinks if our game , they dont go, they don't pay and their opinion changes fuck all on my matchday experiences and never will.

When I read social media I feel like I'm the only person whose starting position is fuck the co efficient 😂 . Am I the only one that thinks like this , am I warped 😂

[weeyin]

Depends if you want to see us in Europe again, or Scotland in a World Cup finals again or attract a better quality of player to the club again. 

We also get a decent payment from UEFA at the end of the season that's based on how well the Scottish teams perform.

Not giving a monkey was anyone thinks abroad of our game is the same attitude the people running our game have had for decades. It's why we are in the dark ages in many aspects. We see JBA as an innovator, when he's really just implementing an approach that modern teams have been using for the past decade. There's a reason we went for foreign managers in our last couple of appointments.

I appreciate that the extra cash can give those teams a financial advantage - but it hasn't done them much good in recent years. 

So on balance, I think it's better for everyone if Scottish teams do well. Although I'm never disappointed to see the OF crash and burn at any time.

 

[dennyc]

2 hours ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

I'm curious about other peoples opinions on this.

For the life of me I cannot understand fans of clubs that flirt with European qualification every 5 / 6 years or even longer wanting the regular qualifiers to do well in Europe to improve the co efficient. All an improved co efficient does is put multi millions of pounds into clubs already with a big financial advantage over us and put the OF straight into the league stages and  for what ?the scraps of an extra conference place and periodic qualification. 

An improved co efficient for me hurts clubs like ours , OK we may get into Europe ourselves now and again but that in no way will compensate financially for the money the regular qualifiers get. Our only real hope of success is the domestic cups do we really want to make that harder by hoping another  3 or 4 clubs out with the  OF are significantly financially strengthened, over and above the financial gap even as it is now.

 

Had Hibs got through last night they'd have got a minimum of £5 million and potentially £8 million. Same goes for Aberdeen and Dundee Utd had they gone through. Even now 3 of them get another bite of the financial cherry.

Am I alone in hoping they all get fucked out as early as possible. Frankly I don't give a monkeys what anyone abroad thinks if our game , they dont go, they don't pay and their opinion changes fuck all on my matchday experiences and never will.

When I read social media I feel like I'm the only person whose starting position is fuck the co efficient 😂 . Am I the only one that thinks like this , am I warped 😂

I don’t think you are warped at all and I get where you are coming from. In many ways I agree. 

Any time those clubs you mention…especially Celtic and Rangers… get beaten domestically it brightens up my day. My take on Europe is different though. For various reasons I prefer the Scottish clubs to progress… but if any are to fall out early I would preferred it to be either OF. It is Scotland after all. 

My logic… flawed or otherwise. 

1. The better they do the more Motherwell FC are rewarded financially by Uefa. And we are talking a lot of money here. It helps keep us alive and assists growth and investment. 

2. I appreciate progress will provide Millions to those clubs. But the huge financial gap will exist regardless of whether they advance in Europe or not.  As an example Celtic and Hearts could miss out on Europe entirely for a decade and they would still blow us out the water financially. 
3. If the co efficient improves we have a better chance of qualifying and having a pop at the millions available, even for relative failure. Gone are the days of making a loss because you visit Russia and lose out first up. Guarantees are now in place to avoid wee Clubs like us being out of pocket. It also helps the National side…. Clarke aside. And I enjoy my European trips!

4. Qualifying for Europe means something. Not as good as a cup win of course, but it is a win. A success. Just like achieving top six. It is a feel good experience when it happens. Something for fans to celebrate and boast about. And it is refreshing seeing ‘different’ clubs visiting FP. Even a pre season v Hertha was a welcome change. 

5. The financial adjustment that needs sorted is the League/TV payout.  But Aberdeen scuppered any possibility of fairness. Greed talks and the OF will never support change. Regardless of the fact that such change might just provide Celtic with the domestic challenge they say they need to compete in Europe. 

The flip side is how enjoyable it is seeing Rangers and Celtic outclassed by average teams from countries that most folk could not find on a map. The upheaval we have seen in their fan base this week is a delight. And I say that having good friends who are ST holders of each of them. 
 

My view. It helps Motherwell if Scottish clubs do well. Although I accept that financially it may strengthen our rivals. 

 

 

[dennyc]

13 minutes ago, weeyin said:

Depends if you want to see us in Europe again, or Scotland in a World Cup finals again or attract a better quality of player to the club again. 

We also get a decent payment from UEFA at the end of the season that's based on how well the Scottish teams perform.

Not giving a monkey was anyone thinks abroad of our game is the same attitude the people running our game have had for decades. It's why we are in the dark ages in many aspects. We see JBA as an innovator, when he's really just implementing an approach that modern teams have been using for the past decade. There's a reason we went for foreign managers in our last couple of appointments.

I appreciate that the extra cash can give those teams a financial advantage - but it hasn't done them much good in recent years. 

So on balance, I think it's better for everyone if Scottish teams do well. Although I'm never disappointed to see the OF crash and burn at any time.

 

Beat me to it😀. Agree fully. 
 

[Spiderpig]

3 hours ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

I'm curious about other peoples opinions on this.

For the life of me I cannot understand fans of clubs that flirt with European qualification every 5 / 6 years or even longer wanting the regular qualifiers to do well in Europe to improve the co efficient. All an improved co efficient does is put multi millions of pounds into clubs already with a big financial advantage over us and put the OF straight into the league stages and  for what ?the scraps of an extra conference place and periodic qualification. 

An improved co efficient for me hurts clubs like ours , OK we may get into Europe ourselves now and again but that in no way will compensate financially for the money the regular qualifiers get. Our only real hope of success is the domestic cups do we really want to make that harder by hoping another  3 or 4 clubs out with the  OF are significantly financially strengthened, over and above the financial gap even as it is now.

 

Had Hibs got through last night they'd have got a minimum of £5 million and potentially £8 million. Same goes for Aberdeen and Dundee Utd had they gone through. Even now 3 of them get another bite of the financial cherry.

Am I alone in hoping they all get fucked out as early as possible. Frankly I don't give a monkeys what anyone abroad thinks if our game , they dont go, they don't pay and their opinion changes fuck all on my matchday experiences and never will.

When I read social media I feel like I'm the only person whose starting position is fuck the co efficient 😂 . Am I the only one that thinks like this , am I warped 😂

Great post I totally agree, the 3 competitions are set up for one purpose only to make the rich powerful clubs and UEFA even richer its a corrupt shambles.

Don't make the CL groups don't worry you can have a go in the EL oh and if you fail there you get a 3rd go in the conference its nonsense.

I've enjoyed many European adventures with Motherwell and I hope to have a few more but that will be nigh on impossible if clubs like Hibs. Hearts, Aberdeen, Dundee untd etc are successful,  making the group stages etc and earning wads of cash to make them even stronger.

As for the ugly sisters I look forward to them being pumped out of Europe at the earliest opportunity, I support Motherwell and have never understood the "support the Scottish teams" argument at all.

 

 

[FirParkCornerExile]

39 minutes ago, weeyin said:

Depends if you want to see us in Europe again, or Scotland in a World Cup finals again or attract a better quality of player to the club again. 

We also get a decent payment from UEFA at the end of the season that's based on how well the Scottish teams perform.

Not giving a monkey was anyone thinks abroad of our game is the same attitude the people running our game have had for decades. It's why we are in the dark ages in many aspects. We see JBA as an innovator, when he's really just implementing an approach that modern teams have been using for the past decade. There's a reason we went for foreign managers in our last couple of appointments.

I appreciate that the extra cash can give those teams a financial advantage - but it hasn't done them much good in recent years. 

So on balance, I think it's better for everyone if Scottish teams do well. Although I'm never disappointed to see the OF crash and burn at any time.

 

I take your points, don't necessarily agree and doesn't make me right, just how it feels to me  but good to see how others see it.

My priority for Motherwell is to see us win another domestic cup. No European adventure will ever Trump 18th May 1991.  Qualifying for Europe is fun and generates money however not the transformational amounts for us that £5/6/7/8 million would have been for Hibs had they got through last night. The frequency and how far Motherwell go in Europe will never be regular, so for me it's a sideshow and the top 5 getting richer by millions definitely diminishes our chances of landing another domestic cup. 

As for Scotland, they been shite for 40 years irrespective of where the co efficient has sat even with the OF reaching major finals. Even in the good qualifying times they are home before the postcards. I love to see Scotland do well but when they don't it doesn't register as much for me as Motherwell. 

However as I said all fair enough points and be a dull place if we all saw it the same.

[Orinoco]

In one hand it's good that teams fail to be successful and get financial reward which widens gaps to others. But on the other hand them being successful might remove qualifying ties which makes it easier for us to get to the group stages and financial reward.

Cup wins do seem the easier route.

[grizzlyg]

I actually support the non old firm teams in Europe but no interest supporting the old firm, they were desperate to leave our league for years so couldn't give a toss about us.

Ps. My old fashion cocktail going down a treat!! 😎😎

[joewarkfanclub]

I sway back and forth on the issue.

I do hate what UEFA and FIFA are doing to football as its a reflection generally of society, with the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer.

That said, its the world that we live in, so, short of giving football up altogether, we as fans just thave to roll with it.

Re the specific point on co-efficient? I dont get overly exercised about it. It would be nice if we didnt have to play so many qualifiers to reach a group stage when we do actually qualify,  but you ultimately still have to beat better teams to get there.

That being the case I just go with how I feel. I generally like to see the Scottish teams do well as I think it reflects better on the country and our league. A bit of pride / self respect if you like. And there is the solidarity payments which cant be ignored.

I quite enjoyed the Hibs game last night (they are comfortably the best Scottish team Ive seen this season) and I would have liked to have seen Aberdeen progress. Even if it is just for the selfish reason of making it harder for them to balance upcoming league games!

Rangers and Celtic not so much. Its quite amusing to see Rangers eat themselves alive and Celtic blow the chance to remain streets ahead of their rivals for years to come by maintaining their biscuit tin mentality.

But generally? Not gonna lose any sleep over it. Its all about what we do thats most important for me, so a win and 3 points tomorrow is my priority!

[Kmcalpin]

4 hours ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

I take your points, don't necessarily agree and doesn't make me right, just how it feels to me  but good to see how others see it.

My priority for Motherwell is to see us win another domestic cup. No European adventure will ever Trump 18th May 1991.  Qualifying for Europe is fun and generates money however not the transformational amounts for us that £5/6/7/8 million would have been for Hibs had they got through last night. The frequency and how far Motherwell go in Europe will never be regular, so for me it's a sideshow and the top 5 getting richer by millions definitely diminishes our chances of landing another domestic cup. 

I'm with you 100% on that. 

Success in Europe only benefits a handful of our biggest clubs on a frequent basis. UEFA and FIFA are rotten from the core and are only interested in the big boys. The rich get richer and all that. As far as I know, solidarity payments are made not just to us, but also to our rivals. as you say, £5-8m to the likes of Hibs would only harm our chances of finishing in the top 4/5 and winning a domestic trophy. Nothing personal against Hibs or Aberdeen but its just by helping them, it disadvantages us.  As far as I'm concerned, it was a good set of European results for us. 

International football doesn't interest me. 

[MJC]

The ‘co-efficient’ of the national game means nothing to me and although I know others will disagree I don’t see how it benefits us as a club to have other Scottish sides doing well in Europe and thus generating more money. It has the opposite effect in my opinion.

My concern in football is Motherwell FC and how we can prosper and succeed as a club and as I’ve said time and again, the ultimate achievement for us would be to win one of the domestic Cups. After that then playing good football and finishing as high up in the league table as possible is what I want to see. I fully accept that both of those scenarios are tall orders but I just want us to aspire to be the best we can be.

If we get ‘Europe’ as a result of finishing 3rd or 4th or winning the Scottish Cup then I would view that as merely an added bonus. 

[wellgirl]

10 hours ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

I'm curious about other peoples opinions on this.

For the life of me I cannot understand fans of clubs that flirt with European qualification every 5 / 6 years or even longer wanting the regular qualifiers to do well in Europe to improve the co efficient. All an improved co efficient does is put multi millions of pounds into clubs already with a big financial advantage over us and put the OF straight into the league stages and  for what ?the scraps of an extra conference place and periodic qualification. 

An improved co efficient for me hurts clubs like ours , OK we may get into Europe ourselves now and again but that in no way will compensate financially for the money the regular qualifiers get. Our only real hope of success is the domestic cups do we really want to make that harder by hoping another  3 or 4 clubs out with the  OF are significantly financially strengthened, over and above the financial gap even as it is now.

 

Had Hibs got through last night they'd have got a minimum of £5 million and potentially £8 million. Same goes for Aberdeen and Dundee Utd had they gone through. Even now 3 of them get another bite of the financial cherry.

Am I alone in hoping they all get fucked out as early as possible. Frankly I don't give a monkeys what anyone abroad thinks if our game , they dont go, they don't pay and their opinion changes fuck all on my matchday experiences and never will.

When I read social media I feel like I'm the only person whose starting position is fuck the co efficient 😂 . Am I the only one that thinks like this , am I warped 😂

Im sorry. I absolutely love seeing other Scottish teams getting pumped out of Europe - particularly Celtic and Rangers 

[wellgirl]

5 hours ago, grizzlyg said:

I actually support the non old firm teams in Europe but no interest supporting the old firm, they were desperate to leave our league for years so couldn't give a toss about us.

Ps. My old fashion cocktail going down a treat!! 😎😎

Is it a snakebite? Circa the Stag 1987?

[stv]

6 hours ago, grizzlyg said:

 

Ps. My old fashion cocktail going down a treat!! 😎😎

Better than yer old fashion jokes then , eh.

[grizzlyg]

34 minutes ago, stv said:

Better than yer old fashion jokes then , eh.

My jokes are certainly old.....and not in fashion.  Ps. Mrs grizzly just nodded head in agreement.

YAMMAS!!!

[StirlingDosser]

I think in matters of scale, 5 million or whatever for a club of Hibs size wouldn't be the same financial jackpot it would be for Motherwell. I suspect Hibs financially these days don't really have to worry and the question for them really needs to be why the heck they don't do better given their set up and resources. Same with the Jambos. 

I will be honest I do not support the Old Firm in Europe, I detest the pair of them. They are both an absolute embarrassment to Scotland when they start their pish so the sooner they are out the better. On the other hand I would quite happily see everyone else do well. 

Europe is just an incing on the cake when you achieve a bit of success domestically however I do welcome the conference league and am looking it at the route Scottish teams need to take. All of the Scottish teams eyeing up Europe are more than capable of entering that group stage. I would fancy our chances. The Motherwell team who battled to the final qualifying round under Craig Broon I would have fancied to get over the line into the Conference group stages.