Spiderpig Posted Friday at 08:26 AM Report Share Posted Friday at 08:26 AM 14 hours ago, gaz7 said: I always think it's an easy cop out saying hampden is a shit hole. Park head and ibrox are no better facility wise and are only better in their seating behind the goals. Murrayfield behind goals is as far away as hampden imo so saying it's not worthy of a final is harsh. Yes I'd love a Wembley or millennium but the constant knocking of our national stadium is as I said harsh. Where would you say is worthy of a final in Scotland If the money had been spent on Hampden for a proper upgrade, ie bringing the west and east terraces closer to the pitch to improve the view then yes it would be worthy. But as the SFA have been a shambles for years, too busy making sure their own interests and expense paid jaunts all over the world are sorted first nothing ever gets done. So year after year thousands of fans are paying for a ticket at the front of the east or West stands to get a severely restricted view if at all of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted Friday at 09:31 AM Report Share Posted Friday at 09:31 AM It all boils down to the fact that the original refurbishment of Hampden in the 1990s was a cheap and nasty sticking plaster job. That said, finances were tight at the time (aren't they always?) but not nearly enough effort was put into fund raising. Ye reap what ye sow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted Friday at 05:23 PM Report Share Posted Friday at 05:23 PM 8 hours ago, Spiderpig said: If the money had been spent on Hampden for a proper upgrade, ie bringing the west and east terraces closer to the pitch to improve the view then yes it would be worthy. But as the SFA have been a shambles for years, too busy making sure their own interests and expense paid jaunts all over the world are sorted first nothing ever gets done. So year after year thousands of fans are paying for a ticket at the front of the east or West stands to get a severely restricted view if at all of the game. There WAS supposedly a deal in place to properly upgrade Hampden years ago, but the bulldozers were pulled away from the door by Thatcher in 1979 after an underhand deal was allegedly done to try and promote Ibrox as the new venue for internationals and Cup Finals. Just one of the many reasons she was booed roundly when she presented that years Scottish Cup. The SFA get a hard time over this but they have done what was possible with the money that they had. The FA didnt rebuild Wembley with their own money. Private enterprise did most of the work with significant input from the government and National Lottery. Same deal with the Millenium. If there is any blame to be apportioned at the SFA it would be in not being politically astute enough to play the game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted Friday at 08:08 PM Report Share Posted Friday at 08:08 PM 2 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said: There WAS supposedly a deal in place to properly upgrade Hampden years ago, but the bulldozers were pulled away from the door by Thatcher in 1979 after an underhand deal was allegedly done to try and promote Ibrox as the new venue for internationals and Cup Finals. Just one of the many reasons she was booed roundly when she presented that years Scottish Cup. The SFA get a hard time over this but they have done what was possible with the money that they had. The FA didnt rebuild Wembley with their own money. Private enterprise did most of the work with significant input from the government and National Lottery. Same deal with the Millenium. If there is any blame to be apportioned at the SFA it would be in not being politically astute enough to play the game. Some merit in what you say Joe, but the SFA received many brickbats, deservedly, for not doing enough and leaving it to others. Many positive suggestions were given to them, but as always they knew best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted Friday at 09:17 PM Report Share Posted Friday at 09:17 PM 1 hour ago, Kmcalpin said: Some merit in what you say Joe, but the SFA received many brickbats, deservedly, for not doing enough and leaving it to others. Many positive suggestions were given to them, but as always they knew best. They absolutely aren't faultless. Particularly when some former office holders may have had a vested interest in the Ibrox plan. As usual, the murky world of politics never favours Scotland kindly.....  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirParkCornerExile Posted Saturday at 12:11 AM Report Share Posted Saturday at 12:11 AM 6 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said: There WAS supposedly a deal in place to properly upgrade Hampden years ago, but the bulldozers were pulled away from the door by Thatcher in 1979 after an underhand deal was allegedly done to try and promote Ibrox as the new venue for internationals and Cup Finals. Just one of the many reasons she was booed roundly when she presented that years Scottish Cup. The SFA get a hard time over this but they have done what was possible with the money that they had. The FA didnt rebuild Wembley with their own money. Private enterprise did most of the work with significant input from the government and National Lottery. Same deal with the Millenium. If there is any blame to be apportioned at the SFA it would be in not being politically astute enough to play the game. 100% correct , Rangers along with the Tories killed a full scale rebuild, remember it like it was yesterday. Rangers lobbied the Tory Govt who just needed and excuse to back out as Rangers wanted Ibrox to be the home of Scotland games. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted Saturday at 06:51 AM Report Share Posted Saturday at 06:51 AM 6 hours ago, FirParkCornerExile said: 100% correct , Rangers along with the Tories killed a full scale rebuild, remember it like it was yesterday. Rangers lobbied the Tory Govt who just needed and excuse to back out as Rangers wanted Ibrox to be the home of Scotland games. Ironic, considering most Rangers fans don’t even support Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirParkCornerExile Posted Saturday at 07:15 AM Report Share Posted Saturday at 07:15 AM 21 minutes ago, wellfan said: Ironic, considering most Rangers fans don’t even support Scotland. In those days it was a role reversal . In the mad confused world of the Old Firm bigotry many Celtic fans supported the Republic of Ireland over Scotland and you never saw the hatred some Rangers fans now have for Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted Saturday at 07:26 AM Report Share Posted Saturday at 07:26 AM 9 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said: In those days it was a role reversal . In the mad confused world of the Old Firm bigotry many Celtic fans supported the Republic of Ireland over Scotland and you never saw the hatred some Rangers fans now have for Scotland. The joys of West Central Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted Saturday at 01:03 PM Report Share Posted Saturday at 01:03 PM There were all sorts of complications surrounding the Hampden redevelopment, from the Taylor Report requirements appearing mid-plan to the city council withdrawing support. Not the mention the fundamental issue that Queens Park owned the stadium and had zero funds to contribute. The people in charge, however, didn't make things any easier. It is also very true that - to quote the Time article here, the "Tories Planned to Destroy Hampden Park". It's rare to find a government that doesn't treat football and fans with contempt, but that particular government was worse than most. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Stall Posted Saturday at 01:31 PM Report Share Posted Saturday at 01:31 PM 27 minutes ago, weeyin said: There were all sorts of complications surrounding the Hampden redevelopment, from the Taylor Report requirements appearing mid-plan to the city council withdrawing support. Not the mention the fundamental issue that Queens Park owned the stadium and had zero funds to contribute. The people in charge, however, didn't make things any easier. It is also very true that - to quote the Time article here, the "Tories Planned to Destroy Hampden Park". It's rare to find a government that doesn't treat football and fans with contempt, but that particular government was worse than most. Â Got a cut& paste? Not paying the times any money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbybingo Posted yesterday at 12:02 AM Report Share Posted yesterday at 12:02 AM Probably missed something, but are you supposed to receive the bus tickets by email or pick them up from the office? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsterwood Posted 22 hours ago Report Share Posted 22 hours ago Who will earn the right to play football? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted 20 hours ago Report Share Posted 20 hours ago On 10/18/2025 at 9:31 AM, Big Stall said: Got a cut& paste? Not paying the times any money I must have good blocking in place, because it opened fine for me (and I've never paid them). Usually pasting the URL into a private browser window does the trick.  Anyway, here it is.  Quote  Tories planned to destroy Hampden Park  Marc Horne Sunday December 13 2009, 12.01am GMT, The Sunday Times Just when it seemed the reputation of the Thatcher government in Scotland couldn't sink lower, newly declassified documents reveal ministers plotted to bulldoze Hampden Park. Correspondence from 1979 shows Tory ministers considered allowing Scotland's national football stadium to be razed. While senior Conservatives acknowledged that demolition would provoke public anger, they planned to "sweeten the pill" by proposing that international matches be rotated in grounds across the country. The loss of the home of Scottish football would have been a huge blow to the country, coming just months after the national team's dismal exit from the 1978 World Cup finals and the narrow failure of the Callaghan government's referendum on devolution. The plan is revealed in letters between Teddy Taylor, a former shadow Scottish secretary whose Cathcart constituency included the stadium, and Alexander Fletcher, then under-secretary of state for Scotland. Taylor, who had just lost his seat but was advising the government, urged ministers to abandon Hampden after Glasgow district council withdrew funding for a planned revamp of the 76-year-old stadium. "If the Hampden scheme isn't going ahead, wouldn't it be wise to call it a day, offering to sweeten the pill by indicating that the big international matches would be played at various grounds, not just in Glasgow, with Aberdeen, Dundee and Edinburgh all getting a share?" he wrote. "There would be the remaining problem of what to do with Hampden, but I have a feeling it would be better for this to be faced up to now rather than just allowing the massive ground simply to deteriorate. I think you'd be surprised to find how many folk would welcome it after the initial burst of protest." Fletcher, who was also Scottish sports minister, replied: "If Glasgow district council does not reverse its decision, there is no doubt that the [redevelopment] scheme would have to be abandoned. In the event, it would be for the football bodies to decide what to do about big matches. It would be natural and appropriate for them to think in terms of using the bigger grounds in Glasgow and other parts of Scotland." The minister, who died in 1989, used the council's decision to renege on the government's pledge to put £5.5m towards Hampden's redevelopment, noting that it presented an ideal opportunity to "cancel with honour". An internal memo stated: "Mr Fletcher is anxious that the Scottish Office should not be seen as the cause of the project's abandonment and has spoken to the secretary of state in this sense." However, officials stressed that the minister had publicly pledged his support for a revamped Hampden in the programme for a recent Scotland international, so there was a potential for "very critical press and public opinion". Denied public funding, it took strong public support and some minor repair work to keep Hampden open until the 1990s, when the ground was finally rebuilt and reopened. Alex Salmond, a keen football supporter, was surprised to learn that Hampden came close to being lost forever. "It says it all for the Tories' attitude to Scotland that they seriously considering scrapping the national stadium - just as they bulldozed jobs and industry during their 18 long years in power," said a spokesman for the first minister. Iain Emerson, editor of the Famous Tartan Army Magazine, said his readers would be appalled by the disclosure. "It is well known that Thatcher had little love for Scotland, but demolishing the national stadium would have generated a Hampden roar loud enough to rattle the windows of Westminster," he said. "The backlash would have made the poll tax protests seem like a picnic." Richard McBrearty, the curator of the Hampden-based Scottish Football Museum, said: "There is a real emotional bond between Hampden and the people of Scotland, and any attempt to close it would have caused indignation across the country." Taylor, who stepped down as an MP in 2005 and now lives in Southend, said he stood by the plan. "I still think it would have been terribly good to replace Hampden by having international games shared throughout Scotland," he said. Hampden was the world's largest football venue until the 1950s, and still holds the European record for the largest crowd, when 149,415 people saw Scotland beat England 3-1 in 1937.   1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just when it seemed the reputation of the Thatcher government in Scotland couldn't sink lower, newly declassified documents reveal ministers plotted to bulldoze Hampden Park. Correspondence from 1979 shows Tory ministers considered allowing Scotland's national football stadium to be razed. While senior Conservatives acknowledged that demolition would provoke public anger, they planned to "sweeten the pill" by proposing that international matches be rotated in grounds across the country. The loss of the home of Scottish football would have been a huge blow to the country, coming just months after the national team's dismal exit from the 1978 World Cup finals and the narrow failure of the Callaghan government's referendum on devolution. The plan is revealed in letters between Teddy Taylor, a former shadow Scottish secretary whose Cathcart constituency included the stadium, and Alexander Fletcher, then under-secretary of state for Scotland. Taylor, who had just lost his seat but was advising the government, urged ministers to abandon Hampden after Glasgow district council withdrew funding for a planned revamp of the 76-year-old stadium. "If the Hampden scheme isn't going ahead, wouldn't it be wise to call it a day, offering to sweeten the pill by indicating that the big international matches would be played at various grounds, not just in Glasgow, with Aberdeen, Dundee and Edinburgh all getting a share?" he wrote. "There would be the remaining problem of what to do with Hampden, but I have a feeling it would be better for this to be faced up to now rather than just allowing the massive ground simply to deteriorate. I think you'd be surprised to find how many folk would welcome it after the initial burst of protest." Fletcher, who was also Scottish sports minister, replied: "If Glasgow district council does not reverse its decision, there is no doubt that the [redevelopment] scheme would have to be abandoned. In the event, it would be for the football bodies to decide what to do about big matches. It would be natural and appropriate for them to think in terms of using the bigger grounds in Glasgow and other parts of Scotland." The minister, who died in 1989, used the council's decision to renege on the government's pledge to put £5.5m towards Hampden's redevelopment, noting that it presented an ideal opportunity to "cancel with honour". An internal memo stated: "Mr Fletcher is anxious that the Scottish Office should not be seen as the cause of the project's abandonment and has spoken to the secretary of state in this sense." However, officials stressed that the minister had publicly pledged his support for a revamped Hampden in the programme for a recent Scotland international, so there was a potential for "very critical press and public opinion". Denied public funding, it took strong public support and some minor repair work to keep Hampden open until the 1990s, when the ground was finally rebuilt and reopened. Alex Salmond, a keen football supporter, was surprised to learn that Hampden came close to being lost forever. "It says it all for the Tories' attitude to Scotland that they seriously considering scrapping the national stadium - just as they bulldozed jobs and industry during their 18 long years in power," said a spokesman for the first minister. Iain Emerson, editor of the Famous Tartan Army Magazine, said his readers would be appalled by the disclosure. "It is well known that Thatcher had little love for Scotland, but demolishing the national stadium would have generated a Hampden roar loud enough to rattle the windows of Westminster," he said. "The backlash would have made the poll tax protests seem like a picnic." Richard McBrearty, the curator of the Hampden-based Scottish Football Museum, said: "There is a real emotional bond between Hampden and the people of Scotland, and any attempt to close it would have caused indignation across the country." Taylor, who stepped down as an MP in 2005 and now lives in Southend, said he stood by the plan. "I still think it would have been terribly good to replace Hampden by having international games shared throughout Scotland," he said. Hampden was the world's largest football venue until the 1950s, and still holds the European record for the largest crowd, when 149,415 people saw Scotland beat England 3-1 in 1937.
wellon Posted 6 hours ago Report Share Posted 6 hours ago On 10/18/2025 at 7:51 AM, wellfan said: Ironic, considering most Rangers fans don’t even support Scotland. Think that's a myth perpetuated by the celtic fans who like to see themselves as the best Scotland/ Ireland/ Palestinian supporters 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted 6 hours ago Report Share Posted 6 hours ago 48 minutes ago, wellon said: Think that's a myth perpetuated by the celtic fans who like to see themselves as the best Scotland/ Ireland/ Palestinian supporters Aye, I'm not sure how this myth has originated. Admittedly I don't know thousands of Rangers fans personally but of the dozen or so I know reasonably well, all are Scotland fans and almost half are in the Travel Club. Our granddaughter's partner has Scotland memorabilia plastered all over their house. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC Posted 4 hours ago Report Share Posted 4 hours ago 1 hour ago, wellon said: Think that's a myth perpetuated by the celtic fans who like to see themselves as the best Scotland/ Ireland/ Palestinian supporters Celtic fans tend to be a lot more anti-Scottish than Rangers fans do. I think more of them now associate themselves with Scotland/being Scottish since the 2014 Independence referendum but that’s more for political reasons rather than football ones.  Rangers have probably done more for the National side than any other club over the years. There was a time that the vast majority of the Scotland support was made up by Rangers fans, back when football and politics weren’t so unhealthily intertwined. They’ve also supplied some of Scotland’s best ever players like Ally McCoist, Jim Baxter, Barry Ferguson, Andy Goram and more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted 4 hours ago Report Share Posted 4 hours ago Having an England shirt as their change kit doesn't help their case. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
well_said Posted 3 hours ago Report Share Posted 3 hours ago 1 hour ago, weeyin said: Having an England shirt as their change kit doesn't help their case. As opposed to having the Irish tricolour on all their shirts in some form or another and flying the Irish flag and also allowing Irish rebel tunes to be played in their stadium. Also allowing banners and flags glorifying IRA terrorists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted 2 hours ago Report Share Posted 2 hours ago 34 minutes ago, well_said said: As opposed to having the Irish tricolour on all their shirts in some form or another and flying the Irish flag and also allowing Irish rebel tunes to be played in their stadium. Also allowing banners and flags glorifying IRA terrorists. Of course not. But I was responding to the discussion about Rangers fans supporting (or not supporting) England, which seems to have upset you for some reason. That doesn't magically make me pro-Celtic, unless you follow the Old Firm method of sectarian logic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted 2 hours ago Report Share Posted 2 hours ago 2 hours ago, MJC said: Celtic fans tend to be a lot more anti-Scottish than Rangers fans do. I think more of them now associate themselves with Scotland/being Scottish since the 2014 Independence referendum but that’s more for political reasons rather than football ones.  Rangers have probably done more for the National side than any other club over the years. There was a time that the vast majority of the Scotland support was made up by Rangers fans, back when football and politics weren’t so unhealthily intertwined. They’ve also supplied some of Scotland’s best ever players like Ally McCoist, Jim Baxter, Barry Ferguson, Andy Goram and more. Was trying to stay out of this debate, but I cant let this one pass as its just not true. Ive followed Scotland home and away for 40 years and whilst older generations of Celtic fans definitely favoured Ireland over Scotland, that was more to do with the ongoing religious bigotry some of them experienced living in Scotland than being "anti-scottish". The younger generations have no such hang ups as their lived experience is quite different. Football in Scotland has always been divided through politics and religion, it didnt start in 2014. To pretend otherwise is to re-write history. As for Rangers (a very British organisation) doing more for the national side than Celtic? Jock Stein, Billy McNeill, Jimmy Johnstone, Danny McGrain, Kenny Dalglish, Roy Aitken, Paul McStay, Mo Johnston, Frank McAvennie, Scott Brown, Kieran Tierney and more...... What I will also say is that the notion that there arent huge numbers of Rangers fans within the Scotland support is also for the birds. They just arent as visible as they used to be as club colours and identification have been rightly discouraged over the years to prevent discussions like this from occurring. Thankfully, they never occur when Im away following Scotland as no-one really cares what team you support. We are there to support Scotland and thats all that matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stv Posted 2 hours ago Report Share Posted 2 hours ago 14 minutes ago, weeyin said: Of course not. But I was responding to the discussion about Rangers fans supporting (or not supporting) England, which seems to have upset you for some reason. That doesn't magically make me pro-Celtic, unless you follow the Old Firm method of sectarian logic. Ah you've been on the States too long now and forgotten that there is no method in sectarian logic in the west of Scotland. No logic at all in fact when these two excuses for football clubs are involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grizzlyg Posted 1 hour ago Author Report Share Posted 1 hour ago Not being funny folks but this is supposed to be chat about the semi-final. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grizzlyg Posted 1 hour ago Author Report Share Posted 1 hour ago Just now, grizzlyg said: Not being funny folks but this is supposed to be chat about the semi-final. And 'not being funny' wasn't meant to be a pun 🤪🤪 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted 1 hour ago Report Share Posted 1 hour ago On 10/18/2025 at 7:51 AM, wellfan said: Ironic, considering most Rangers fans don’t even support Scotland. What have I done?! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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