Motherwell v Celtic 13/05/2026

[weeyin]

4 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Maybe not.

But in the interests of transparency we should still hear it.

Even if all it does is annoy us all summer.

Keeps the boiler stoked for next season and the first shitty decision that comes our way.

Handpicking what they want to share is not transparency though.

[joewarkfanclub]

3 hours ago, weeyin said:

Handpicking what they want to share is not transparency though.

Precisely my point.

If its not made available, we should be asking why not.

I dont really want to dwell on this but you can still demand transparency without the expectation of it, and highlight the lack of it when it occurs.

Might end up with a sign on our backs again right enough.....

[weeyin]

1 minute ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Precisely my point.

If its not made available, we should be asking why not.

By handpicking, I didn't mean not making it available. I meant they can choose to make part of it available - the part that does them less or no damage - and we wouldn't know if anything was missing.

[joewarkfanclub]

1 hour ago, weeyin said:

By handpicking, I didn't mean not making it available. I meant they can choose to make part of it available - the part that does them less or no damage - and we wouldn't know if anything was missing.

True.

But I would have thought a heavily edited audio would be apparent given the circumstances.

Regardless. Lets hear it and we can decide for ourselves......

[steelman1991]

They were quick enough to release the  audio from Celtic/Hearts. Me “paranoid” ……… of course not 🤪.

[stv]

It's  Hearts that should be pushing for this to be released and scrutinised.  It cost them the title and millions in revenue.

[MJC]

I don’t think hearing the audio from that night will tell us much that isn’t already pretty obvious to be honest.

VAR saw a ‘potential’ handball which obviously wasn’t but Andrew Dallas or whoever it was likely knew that John Beaton is too scared to give any big call against Celtic and would take the ‘safer’ option by giving them a penalty. And it took Beaton literally seconds to watch that and give it when it would have been impossible to be able to determine that in that time.

Celtic run the show and the whole thing stinks. I’m not talking about daft conspiracy theories like lodges, dodgy handshakes and knowing nods, I’m talking about that club having such a hold on football, media and society that they are running it through fear and intimidation. Celtic caused a refereeing strike in 2010 for far less than what happened at Fir Park earlier this month and since then they’ve had almost everything their own way. And on the odd occasion that they haven’t the officials in question have been absolutely hounded by them, their fans, the managers and their media stooges. John Beaton being the most obvious but there have been others.

The reality is that Celtic Football Club are an absolute cancer on Scottish Football.

[dennyc]

1 hour ago, MJC said:

I don’t think hearing the audio from that night will tell us much that isn’t already pretty obvious to be honest.

VAR saw a ‘potential’ handball which obviously wasn’t but Andrew Dallas or whoever it was likely knew that John Beaton is too scared to give any big call against Celtic and would take the ‘safer’ option by giving them a penalty. And it took Beaton literally seconds to watch that and give it when it would have been impossible to be able to determine that in that time.

Celtic run the show and the whole thing stinks. I’m not talking about daft conspiracy theories like lodges, dodgy handshakes and knowing nods, I’m talking about that club having such a hold on football, media and society that they are running it through fear and intimidation. Celtic caused a refereeing strike in 2010 for far less than what happened at Fir Park earlier this month and since then they’ve had almost everything their own way. And on the odd occasion that they haven’t the officials in question have been absolutely hounded by them, their fans, the managers and their media stooges. John Beaton being the most obvious but there have been others.

The reality is that Celtic Football Club are an absolute cancer on Scottish Football.

What I find surprising is that Beaton is getting all or at least most of the flak. Not excusing Beaton but Andrew Dallas is the one that created the whole injustice. Even though the supposed error was not Clear and Obvious. More like Fabricated.  Beaton could have stuck by his original decision of course but he was put in such a position that I don't think any referee would have overridden Dallas. Add Beaton's previous history with Celtic and the outcome was assured. Dallas must have known that.  If I was Beaton...and thank God I'm not.......I would be raging at Dallas for putting me in such a situation. For his part (and more so because of the part Dallas played) Collum will refuse to acknowledge any error. 

Fortunately for us, other than a point lost, the penalty did not change our situation. Draw or lose we still had to win at Easter Road. Hearts were the team most hard done to,  especially as they had a much more valid penalty claim denied a few days earlier. Despite all that crap about errors balancing themselves out over a season, those two decisions decided the outcome of the League. Our Officials and our Association should be ashamed not only about the way things played out at Fir Park but their rewriting of history regards the disgraceful ending at Celtic Park a few days later. 

Given the recent actions of many Celtic fans at Ibrox, Fir Park and Celtic Park I wonder what sanctions will be handed out? Not holding my breath though as I suspect all the ever increasing noise coming from the SFA about pitch invasions not being unlawful in Scotland is a prelude to taking no action whatsoever. If anything, Rangers and Motherwell will be warned about not taking ample precautions, we will be fined for the pyros, and the Celtic Park invasion will be viewed simply as understandable exuberance with Hearts fined for leaving early and not completing Media duties. As MJC says, that is the extent to which Celtic control things in Scotland. Media included.

 

[rinkydink]

The question needs to be asked as to whether wee Willie was also in the VAR room at the time (as he was for the Aberdeen cup game).

[star sail]

2 hours ago, MJC said:

I don’t think hearing the audio from that night will tell us much that isn’t already pretty obvious to be honest.

VAR saw a ‘potential’ handball which obviously wasn’t but Andrew Dallas or whoever it was likely knew that John Beaton is too scared to give any big call against Celtic and would take the ‘safer’ option by giving them a penalty. And it took Beaton literally seconds to watch that and give it when it would have been impossible to be able to determine that in that time.

Celtic run the show and the whole thing stinks. I’m not talking about daft conspiracy theories like lodges, dodgy handshakes and knowing nods, I’m talking about that club having such a hold on football, media and society that they are running it through fear and intimidation. Celtic caused a refereeing strike in 2010 for far less than what happened at Fir Park earlier this month and since then they’ve had almost everything their own way. And on the odd occasion that they haven’t the officials in question have been absolutely hounded by them, their fans, the managers and their media stooges. John Beaton being the most obvious but there have been others.

The reality is that Celtic Football Club are an absolute cancer on Scottish Football.

I share your frustration with this incident and it does highlight a wider problem in Scottish Football but you can't objectively frame this as a Celtic only problem. It is an OF problem and has been for decades. 

I agree that John Beaton was put in an impossible situation. I thought he refereed the game really well and was literally a couple of seconds away from being able to say job done. I thought the Maeda penalty call, he got right, the Slattery penalty call was also right. His onfield decision at the end was also spot on.

I have no doubts that as he was walking to the monitor he would have either consciously or subconsciously been thinking about the personal implications for him and his family of overturning the decision. Unfortunately for him in this particular instance, he was stuck between a rock and a hard place. 

Had it been Rangers we were playing and Rangers were going for the title the outcome would have been EXACTLY the same.

Both OF's clubs have used intimidation and the weight of numbers to get what they want for as long as I have been watching football. To frame it as a Celtic only problem (or a Rangers only problem) dilutes the argument. It is based on a predudice that favours one club or the other. They both use power and influence to get what they want and have both been very successful at getting what they want. It is why they keep doing it. Jim Traynor was hired as the Rangers communications man to use his knowledge of the press in Scotland to do exactly this, spin the narrative, put pressure on the authorities in Rangers favour. 

Rangers and Celtic are a collective. They are both a cancer on Scottish Football.

[MJC]

No I can’t agree that it is an ‘Old Firm’ issue. Not in today’s game and today’s world where Celtic clearly have more clout and control than Rangers do. They have the media, the authorities and politicians on their side in a way that Rangers simply don’t.

Time was Rangers were the ‘establishment club’ in the country and I think if you look at the 1990s in particular they got far more favourable refereeing decisions than anyone else, Celtic included, but just because something was the case once doesn’t mean that it is still the case now. The game has changed, the ‘Overton window’ has shifted and now through excessive PR, crying victim, hounding referees to the point of getting some thrown out the game and striking overall it is Celtic who are refereed to a different standard than everyone else. And their support are becoming more and more entitled and emboldened with each passing year. You see it in the way they behave even towards their own club at times and that’s before you mention numerous pitch invasions, overcrowding away stands and causing thousands of pounds worth of damage to stadiums.

And yet you never hear a peep from the media or the authorities about it unless they can bring another set of fans, usually Rangers, into the equation to reduce the spotlight on Celtic, but even if they can’t bring Rangers into it they manage to mention incidents at lower league matches to try and balance it out. And that is why it will keep happening with Celtic and their fans.

Finally, you say that had it been Rangers we were playing and they were going for the title then the outcome with that penalty decision would have been exactly the same, well I’m not sure it would have been, certainly not with Beaton as the ref. Put it this way, had Beaton given Rangers a penalty under those circumstances which enabled them to win the League any deny Celtic the title then he wouldn’t referee another game. He would have been hounded by Celtic and their media mouthpieces in a way much, much worse than he was over the actual incident. And Celtic would be pushing all the way for the audio to be released, probably getting their legal teams involved until they got what they wanted, which they absolutely would get.

I’m not saying that Rangers don’t have a lot more sway in what goes on and more media exposure and support than us and clubs like us, because they clearly do, but Celtic are way, way out ahead of them on all fronts in this day and age.

[dennyc]

1 hour ago, star sail said:

I share your frustration with this incident and it does highlight a wider problem in Scottish Football but you can't objectively frame this as a Celtic only problem. It is an OF problem and has been for decades. 

I agree that John Beaton was put in an impossible situation. I thought he refereed the game really well and was literally a couple of seconds away from being able to say job done. I thought the Maeda penalty call, he got right, the Slattery penalty call was also right. His onfield decision at the end was also spot on.

I have no doubts that as he was walking to the monitor he would have either consciously or subconsciously been thinking about the personal implications for him and his family of overturning the decision. Unfortunately for him in this particular instance, he was stuck between a rock and a hard place. 

Had it been Rangers we were playing and Rangers were going for the title the outcome would have been EXACTLY the same.

Both OF's clubs have used intimidation and the weight of numbers to get what they want for as long as I have been watching football. To frame it as a Celtic only problem (or a Rangers only problem) dilutes the argument. It is based on a predudice that favours one club or the other. They both use power and influence to get what they want and have both been very successful at getting what they want. It is why they keep doing it. Jim Traynor was hired as the Rangers communications man to use his knowledge of the press in Scotland to do exactly this, spin the narrative, put pressure on the authorities in Rangers favour. 

Rangers and Celtic are a collective. They are both a cancer on Scottish Football.

Agree with much of that. But I would suggest that, funny as it was at the time, Rangers demise years ago effectively handed the opportunity for complete control to Celtic. And they grabbed it with both hands (assisted to a degree by Aberdeen's greed). To the extent that they are currently much the dominate power. At times in the past it has been Rangers in that power situation and your Traynor comment is so relevant.

The Media will always cow to the OF. But at the present time Celtic are well and truly in control of how Scottish Football is governed. Otherwise why have they escaped punishment on so many occasions? Why is a blind eye being turned to three pitch invasions in a row, or at best excuses being made on their behalf? Why is the damage their fans cause to away Grounds ignored?  They are not so lightly treated when it is UEFA calling the shots. Speaks volumes. Although even there Lawwell managed to get a UEFA Board position which I think he still holds having been proposed by the SFA. Despite him having stood down from the Celtic Board. Normally that UEFA position would have ended at the same time as he gave up his position at Celtic.

You might be correct. Rangers could well have benefited from the sort of decision Celtic got had they been playing us in that League situation. But they weren't so that comparison is purely hypothetical. Admittedly Rangers probably got away with our penalty shout at Ibrox, but that was less clear cut than the Nicholson shambles.

As for Officials and VAR generally. All teams suffer from their incompetence. As opposed to corruption. The Newell hand ball goal could have cost Celtic the Title. Rangers lost silverware last season because of an acknowledged refereeing/VAR error. Livi were more or less relegated right at the start of the season because of some horrendous decisions. Gave them a mountain to climb.. As a fact, fans of every team could point to incorrect decisions that cost their Clubs dearly.

[MJC]

I’ve mentioned this before but will say it again, Celtic went over 80 domestic matches without a red card from March 2024 until January 2026. That is a stat which is got to be some kind of record and indeed one that had it benefited Rangers then Celtic and their cheerleaders would be screaming from the rooftops about “Masonic cheating refs.” And the key thing to remember about this incredible run was that it began when Brendan Rodgers publicly went after Beaton for calling a red card and a penalty against Celtic in a match against Hearts which Celtic lost. They even got their lawyers in to contest Rodgers touchline ban for it. 

[star sail]

28 minutes ago, dennyc said:

 

You might be correct. Rangers could well have benefited from the sort of decision Celtic got had they been playing us in that League situation. But they weren't so that comparison is purely hypothetical. Admittedly Rangers probably got away with our penalty shout at Ibrox, but that was less clear cut than the Nicholson shambles.

 

The penalty shout at Ibrox was just as clear cut. It was 100% a penalty.

We would have had a penalty had we been playing any other team ( apart from Celtic ) in the league but it was a clear penalty.

You mention Livingston. They suffered the injustice of the season with the hand ball that was not given against Fernandez at Ibrox. Again, that would have been given as a penalty had they been playing any non OF team. Nobody cared about it because it was just Livingston and it was not title deciding but it was a terrible decision and it certainly did in some way contribute to their relegation. 

You have highlighted examples that actually help prove my point. 

[dennyc]

1 hour ago, star sail said:

 

You have highlighted examples that actually help prove my point. 

There are 2 aspects to the discussion.

I highlighted examples that support your view that our Officials are useless and above sanction. I don't believe they are corrupt.  There are stills of the Ibrox penalty claim that suggest minimal contact at best. Whether they were available at the time is debatable. For what it's worth, viewing 'live' I thought it was a penalty and on balance still do. For me, it was not as bad a decision as the penalty donated to Celtic. Not as clear cut.

The other issue is who is currently the dominant power in the running of Scottish football? Celtic beyond doubt for which I also highlighted examples. Rangers have been in that position in the past. But not currently. MJC is spot on. To lump them together at this time only helps deflect attention from Celtic. Both would like to rule the roost but Celtic are winning that race for now.

 

[MJC]

15 minutes ago, dennyc said:

To lump them together at this time only helps deflect attention from Celtic. Both would like to rule the roost but Celtic are winning that race for now.

 

The problem so many people have there is that by not lumping them both together and instead calling out Celtic alone then it is seen that you are somehow showing support or favour for Rangers. You see examples of it all the time even on anonymous forums like this, result being that people don’t want to say it’s a Celtic issue for fear of being labelled pro-Rangers or a bigot. Celtic and their supporters know this and cynically exploit it for their own means.

[Richie]

VAR show at 6pm 🍿

Lets see what they've been saying in the Celtic game

[Yoshi-1991]

Just seen the video with var audio, Beaton literally asking VAR to tell him what to see, "does it definitely hit the hand?" 

[dennyc]

2 minutes ago, Yoshi-1991 said:

Just seen the video with var audio, Beaton literally asking VAR to tell him what to see, "does it definitely hit the hand?" 

Having watched  the var replay, Beaton clearly still doubted whether it was a hand ball. So not clear and obvious to him by any means. Again Collum making it up to fit the outcome. He contradicts himself time after time.

Another joke was Collum standing by the decision to allow the Newell goal. That is as clear and obvious error as you will see. Even Newell was laughing at it standing. Oh, and apparently leaving the ground to launch a two footed tackle which catches the shin is only a yellow card. Must bear that in mind for next season.

But really, did we expect anything else. 

[MJC]

It is clear from that that Beaton simply erred on the side of caution and gave the decision in Celtic’s favour. 
 

As I said, that tells us nothing that wasn’t already obvious. Beaton is compromised by Celtic and is scared to go against them given past experiences when he has. There was nothing “clear and obvious” about that incident yet VAR thought it was enough to intervene and Beaton obviously had made his mind up to award the penalty as soon as he got the shout, hence the almost immediate awarding of the penalty.

Like I said, the whole thing stinks.

[Orinoco]

It is time for Collum to be removed from head of referees. The guy just craves attention and only continues to contradict and cause confusion. He offers no leadership and accountability.

Its time the clubs acted to remove him. 

[Yoshi-1991]

13 minutes ago, dennyc said:

Having watched  the var replay, Beaton clearly still doubted whether it was a hand ball. So not clear and obvious to him by any means. Again Collum making it up to fit the outcome. He contradicts himself time after time.

Another joke was Collum standing by the decision to allow the Newell goal. That is as clear and obvious error as you will see. Even Newell was laughing at it standing. Oh, and apparently leaving the ground to launch a two footed tackle which catches the shin is only a yellow card. Must bear that in mind for next season.

But really, did we expect anything else. 

Not just that but Collum saying that its a pen because his hand is in an unnatural position even before contact with the Celtic player, but if it stayed there it wouldn't have hit his hand then would it? It's only the contact that changes where the hand is to then hit the ball. Honestly man can physically see him doing mental gymnastics on the spot to try justify that. 

[Spiderpig]

12 minutes ago, Orinoco said:

It is time for Collum to be removed from head of referees. The guy just craves attention and only continues to contradict and cause confusion. He offers no leadership and accountability.

Its time the clubs acted to remove him. 

No acountabillity, or responsibillity, made up shite to justify their incorrect decisions week after week and nothing ever gets done, its embarrassing, no wonder Scottish football is seen as a joke.

[0Neils40yarder]

24 minutes ago, Yoshi-1991 said:

Not just that but Collum saying that its a pen because his hand is in an unnatural position even before contact with the Celtic player, but if it stayed there it wouldn't have hit his hand then would it? It's only the contact that changes where the hand is to then hit the ball. Honestly man can physically see him doing mental gymnastics on the spot to try justify that. 

I switched it off...I cannae listen to the clown