Supporter Conduct and the Cost to the Club

[grizzlyg]

I have came to the decision that I am just going to focus on Alfred and the team as spent too much time thinking about the fines and behaviour of a small minority that its actually just put me on a downer and I've lost my enthusiasm for posting or trying to be funny and lighten the mood.

So hey......not all bad 🤪🤪, COYW

[Spiderpig]

1 hour ago, grizzlyg said:

I have came to the decision that I am just going to focus on Alfred and the team as spent too much time thinking about the fines and behaviour of a small minority that its actually just put me on a downer and I've lost my enthusiasm for posting or trying to be funny and lighten the mood.

So hey......not all bad 🤪🤪, COYW

My thoughts as well and for me thats the best attitude to have, but the club and/ or the WS need to grow a set and deal with the issues, before the vast majority of the fans begin to suffer due to the actions of the entitled minority.

[grizzlyg]

2 hours ago, grizzlyg said:

I have came to the decision that I am just going to focus on Alfred and the team as spent too much time thinking about the fines and behaviour of a small minority that its actually just put me on a downer and I've lost my enthusiasm for posting or trying to be funny and lighten the mood.

So hey......not all bad 🤪🤪, COYW

In fact taking a wee break till next game might be best all round as I have rubbed folk up the wrong way with views plus my jokes are just driving folk roond the bend ( i forget the ones previously sent, so sending a 2nd time is double torture).   Always try to be honest and lighthearted but admittedly it must be irritating seeing some of the gibberish I post.   Jeez I need a holiday 😎

COYW

[SteelmaninOZ]

3 hours ago, grizzlyg said:

I have came to the decision that I am just going to focus on Alfred and the team as spent too much time thinking about the fines and behaviour of a small minority that its actually just put me on a downer and I've lost my enthusiasm for posting or trying to be funny and lighten the mood.

So hey......not all bad 🤪🤪, COYW

 Keep em coming the jokes I mean 👍

SIWY

[Kmcalpin]

1 hour ago, grizzlyg said:

In fact taking a wee break till next game might be best all round as I have rubbed folk up the wrong way with views plus my jokes are just driving folk roond the bend ( i forget the ones previously sent, so sending a 2nd time is double torture).   Always try to be honest and lighthearted but admittedly it must be irritating seeing some of the gibberish I post.   Jeez I need a holiday 😎

COYW

Stay just as you are Grizzly.

[David]

1 hour ago, grizzlyg said:

In fact taking a wee break till next game might be best all round as I have rubbed folk up the wrong way with views plus my jokes are just driving folk roond the bend ( i forget the ones previously sent, so sending a 2nd time is double torture).   Always try to be honest and lighthearted but admittedly it must be irritating seeing some of the gibberish I post.   Jeez I need a holiday 😎

COYW

I can only speak personally, but you're a valued member of the forum, and those jokes do actually get a chuckle from me every now and then. 

[weeyin]

Nothing to do with grizzly or his jokes, but just in general I think it's a good idea to take regular breaks from posting on any forum - and the international break is as good a time as any.

Then come back all guns blazing after our next 0 - 0 draw.

[twistandshout1983]

4 hours ago, grizzlyg said:

In fact taking a wee break till next game might be best all round as I have rubbed folk up the wrong way with views plus my jokes are just driving folk roond the bend ( i forget the ones previously sent, so sending a 2nd time is double torture).   Always try to be honest and lighthearted but admittedly it must be irritating seeing some of the gibberish I post.   Jeez I need a holiday 😎

COYW

Not at all,  I think the lighthearted jokes are one of the best things about coming on here some days

Contrast that to some of the constant negativity on Motherwell's Facebook page after a game 

[MJC]

4 hours ago, grizzlyg said:

In fact taking a wee break till next game might be best all round as I have rubbed folk up the wrong way with views plus my jokes are just driving folk roond the bend ( i forget the ones previously sent, so sending a 2nd time is double torture).   Always try to be honest and lighthearted but admittedly it must be irritating seeing some of the gibberish I post.   Jeez I need a holiday 😎

COYW

Take a break if you want. 
 

But you’re one of the good yins on here grizzlyb. 👍 

[santheman]

Good post from Derek Watson over on P&B about the situation for anyone interested.

[Toxteth O'Grady]

5 hours ago, santheman said:

Good post from Derek Watson over on P&B about the situation for anyone interested.

Do you have a link?

[santheman]

14 hours ago, Toxteth O'Grady said:

Do you have a link?

Copied and pasted.

 

OK, I'll aim to address some of the above points which have been raised.

Of course, I’m in a position where I’d have a way in to speak to some of those in Block E, despite not being a member of that group, as I sit in that section and have known many of the long-standing members for several years now, but cards on the table, the “Well Bois” first started going to the games together around 15 years ago when some of Block E were still at Primary School. While we’re here it’s probably not of interest to anyone outside that section but as @thisGRAEME highlighted Bois and Block E are two separate groups.

We’ve also got a member of Block E who was recently elected to the Society back earlier this year and is doing some excellent work with our events workstream, bringing fresh ideas to the table and hopefully enabling us to appeal to a younger audience with the rest of the board getting on a bit.

That’s not me trying to avoid scrutiny, that’s me just setting out the situation. In a personal capacity or even with a Society hat on, it’s not easy for any individual to get a large group of 18/19 year olds who want to push the boundaries to listen to them, especially not one who is almost double their age. I'm sure you can imagine how that goes down from time to time.

That said, to answer @ScottW1886's question around were conversations had and they ploughed on regardless, the answer to that is no. 

Many conversations have been had since then though and hopefully we can make some progress. I’d like to think those who are vocally pro-pyro, and especially those who want to argue for safe or legal usage (something I've done in the past), can see when there have been incidents that have resulted injury or cost the club money then discussions needs to be had

I can’t comment for the Club but speaking personally I’m very much against collective punishment, others will have different views, but I think we need to avoid a large fall-out situation. We can’t change what’s happened in the past, but we can change how we work going forward. 

FYI, I've helped facilitate a meeting that has been scheduled for next week where the representatives from the Club Board and the Society will meet with the guys from that section. Again, I can’t comment for the Club so I can’t say what actions will come from that for now, but to their credit the Board and notably the Chairman have said they want as many from Block E as possible, especially younger guys who they may not have engaged with previously, to be present so they can get their points across and find solutions.

[joewarkfanclub]

Seems like the "adult" way ahead if we want to avoid the situation turning into a negative atmosphere at Fir Park.

However, it does need to be more than just words and will require buy in by both sides. Particularly by those that like to push boundaries.

[weeyin]

1 hour ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Seems like the "adult" way ahead if we want to avoid the situation turning into a negative atmosphere at Fir Park.

However, it does need to be more than just words and will require buy in by both sides. Particularly by those that like to push boundaries.

I'm always in favour of engaging fans as often as possible, but "get their points across and find solutions" feels a bit like avoiding the issue. Unless and until the rules are changed, the solution for pitch invasions is "don't invade the pitch and the solution for pyro is "don't use pyro inside the ground.

 

[0Neils40yarder]

3 hours ago, weeyin said:

I'm always in favour of engaging fans as often as possible, but "get their points across and find solutions" feels a bit like avoiding the issue. Unless and until the rules are changed, the solution for pitch invasions is "don't invade the pitch and the solution for pyro is "don't use pyro inside the ground.

 

I know I have mentioned this before (and the pyro is completely separate matter) but how does anyone stop a single, solitary person from going on the pitchside (the individual did not go on the park as far as I could tell.

[weeyin]

23 minutes ago, 0Neils40yarder said:

I know I have mentioned this before (and the pyro is completely separate matter) but how does anyone stop a single, solitary person from going on the pitchside (the individual did not go on the park as far as I could tell.

Carrot and stick.

Ask them not to do it.

Negative consequences when they do.

So far, the club has only implemented the first part.

[dennyc]

5 minutes ago, 0Neils40yarder said:

I know I have mentioned this before (and the pyro is completely separate matter) but how does anyone stop a single, solitary person from going on the pitchside (the individual did not go on the park as far as I could tell.

Clubs simply cannot stop fans from entering the pitch area. But for those that do there should be repercussions. Be it a short term ban for individuals or an extended ban if repeated. Might not stop the Club being fined but at least it would show the authorities that there is a willing to address the issue. That willingness would likely be reflected in any action taken against the club.

What we have witnessed so far from Motherwell is a softly softly approach which has had no effect whatsoever. Now we hear of attempts to arrange meetings so that those who have consistently damaged the Club's reputation and hurt it financially can put their point of view across. Almost like a negotiation. Really! Who are we? Celtic?  As weeyin says above, it really is quite simple. Stop using Pyros and/or invading the pitch or you will not be attending games. 

 

 

 

 

[Spiderpig]

The club needs to grow a set and get tough, whatever you think about the rules and regulations at the ground they are there for a reason for all fans to follow and comply.

The only "negotiation" required is "listen carefully i shall say this only once" anymore pyro displays, pitch incursions, or behaviour contrary to the code of conduct will not be tolerated, and groups or individuals identified as culpable will be banned from the ground, areas of the stadium shut etc. Is that clear.

 

[0Neils40yarder]

7 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

The club needs to grow a set and get tough, whatever you think about the rules and regulations at the ground they are there for a reason for all fans to follow and comply.

The only "negotiation" required is "listen carefully i shall say this only once" anymore pyro displays, pitch incursions, or behaviour contrary to the code of conduct will not be tolerated, and groups or individuals identified as culpable will be banned from the ground, areas of the stadium shut etc. Is that clear.

 

Its got to be individuals...any grouping is far too loose as explained by Mr Watson.

As for the pitch invader (again singular), this must be the easiest person to identify...but maybe the club are happy to pay it lip service.

[David]

11 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

The only "negotiation" required is "listen carefully i shall say this only once" anymore pyro displays, pitch incursions, or behaviour contrary to the code of conduct will not be tolerated, and groups or individuals identified as culpable will be banned from the ground, areas of the stadium shut etc. Is that clear.

Is there a single instance in the history of football where being heavy-handed, banning groups of people from grounds, shutting areas of the stadium and so on has actually ever worked long-term? 

We've seen it tried in this country and others. That approach doesn't work. 

[Spiderpig]

4 minutes ago, David said:

Is there a single instance in the history of football where being heavy-handed, banning groups of people from grounds, shutting areas of the stadium and so on has actually ever worked long-term? 

We've seen it tried in this country and others. That approach doesn't work. 

Aye ok then, have lots of negotiations and ask them all nicely to behave knowing they will ignore you because they know nothing will happen. Then the club can start to worry about the next lot of fines or sanctions heading to Fir park for the club to cover, tens of thousands wasted due to their inabillity or willingness to take any action.

[David]

1 hour ago, Spiderpig said:

Aye ok then, have lots of negotiations and ask them all nicely to behave knowing they will ignore you because they know nothing will happen. Then the club can start to worry about the next lot of fines or sanctions heading to Fir park for the club to cover, tens of thousands wasted due to their inabillity or willingness to take any action.

There's no middle ground then? It's either come in and read the riot act and issue threats, or do nothing? 

Here's a question. You say that areas of the stadium should be closed if people don't toe the line. Cool. What about season ticket holders in that area who aren't guilty of anything? Are you forcing them to move seats? Where are you putting them? Or are you telling someone who happens to sit in that section of the ground that they're out on their ear because someone lit a flare? Season ticket paid for, but no longer valid? That's a nice little court case waiting to happen. 

Unless you have some answer to the above that would legally cover the arse of the club, then it's unworkable. 

The situation can easily be remedied. You don't aim any messaging or threats at any "groups", you simply say that anyone who is identified as breaking the law will have their details handed to the police. Simple as that. From there, it will be the decision of the country's legal framework to decide what happens, alongside their season ticket being revoked and them personally being banned.