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The player sales model debate is an interesting one. For me, it's not a precarious model by any means. And I'd suggest that it demonstrably works. We're in a situation where the club doesn't urgently need outside investment - it would just be preferable. Our model ensures that it's unlikely that the hypothetical gap outlined in the Well Society's consultation earlier in the year, and the hypothetical gap that is the very reason for courting external investment in the first place, will, based on the experience of fan-ownership to date, materialise. It never has under fan-ownership and, even if it did, the Well Society has enough funding to cover that gap as a one-off. The issue would be if something that has yet to happen didn't just happen one year, but two in quick succession. Of course, nothing is impossible in football. Over the same time period that fan-owned Motherwell has remained in the division, reached cup finals, and made Europe, clubs with bigger resources such as Hearts, Hibernian and Dundee United have all been relegated. So it's a duty of the club to at least recognise that hypothetical gap and see if there's a more productive way to eradicate it, other than relying on the Well Society to plug it if it happens once, and then to probably slash our playing budget if it happens again in quick succession (before the Society has built up the safety net again). But in terms of our model, David Turnbull always gets picked out as a seeming "anomaly" but in reality, he's the result of an effective player sales model. Since fan-ownership came into being, we have - purely off the top of my head, so there'll probably be others I miss - sold, for cash, guys like Louis Moult, Cedric Kipre, Kevin van Keen, Sondre Solholm Johansen, James Scott & Ben Heneghan. We could have, had we tied them down on contracts, added Chris Cadden, Allan Campbell, Jake Hastie, Dean Cornelius & Max Johnston to that list. However, the compensation for each still numbers in the hundreds of thousands meaning that, collectively, that's still well over £1m. We will probably sell Theo Bair on for a relatively decent fee in the summer, January, or next summer, while at the same time, Lennon Miller will almost certainly go for a price that you could perhaps list alongside the Turnbull fee. In terms of any investment meaning a change from that model and the ability to keep our best players, I would argue that is incredibly unlikely, if not impossible. The player sales model is only partly because of a financial need, it's also largely because of the club's stature in world football. As has been mentioned elsewhere, it was confirmed at the AGM by the club that no investment offer is transformational, meaning that there would be no change to the model. In fact, you could argue that, if any investor was keen on getting a return on their investment, the player sales model could become even more important in that situation. The only way in which our model ceases to be our model that I can see is if we ended up with an incredibly unlikely Colin & Christine Weir scenario where a diehard Motherwell fan wins the Euromillions and wants to just chuck cash at the club. But even in that situation, where you don't necessarily need to sell players, players would still be sold - because the best guys will always want to move on to play at perceived bigger clubs or in better leagues, regardless of how much cash you're able to throw at them. The player sales model at Fir Park has been in place, and worked successfully, before fan-ownership, has worked under fan-ownership, and will continue to work regardless of whether the club is owned by the fans, an external investor, or a hybrid of the two. Personally, I think it's both a successful model that we should be positive about, because we're good at it, and a model that will be integral to the club whether we like it or not anyway.

I dont know what it is many Motherwell fans cant get their head around about the ground improvements. The £3 million we got from Government was a 20 year interest free loan. It could not be spent on players wages . The stipulation was it must be spent on the fabric of the club. The club would have been mad not to take the loan. At worst the expenditure to finance that loan in any year only ever amounts to £150,000 a year. A very small proportion of any losses we incur in any season. The £3million pound will never ever appear as a loss on the clubs accounts because its not a loss its a loan. There is so much pish written about us wasting money on ground improvements when the reality is we couldn't have got the loan for anything else and it was an absolute bargain on those terms.

Nope. We got peak Kev in his last season. Given his age and his normal goal scoring form of single digit seasons, I never wanted him back. Just bask in his record breaking season and look forward to the next Kev we uncover. I'd be happier if we kept Vale for next season.

Anyone who would have been prepared to pay more can always find other ways of putting money into the club. Starting or upping WS contributions Consider buying 50/50 tickets Etc etc.

Who do we need to compete with, only Motherwell fans buy Motherwell season tickets, so not increasing the prices is a good thing. A price increase even a modest one might have pushed the price beyond some people's budget. So if there's no need for an increase its happy days and a good move by the club.

she possibly wasn't called Mrs Wellgirl.

Thanks Theo nice to see your backing yourself, self confidence is important.

At the financial levels we operate at re wages etc £750k would fund possibly 4 or 5 players, so it's very decent cash to a club like ours. And the bigger English clubs know this all too well, it's small change to them.

You ever get the feeling where I wish I hadn't mentioned it!! Cheers Mr Cowan 😜😜

Probably something to do with his 204 career goals vs Theo's 21.

Ominous. I'll no sleep tonight.

True, but your point surely has its limits.

The only thing more eye-stabblingly painful than the annual "writing off new players we have signed" ritual is the annual "writing off players we haven't signed" ritual.

No really. I just made up a more inspiring rumour to cheer Steelboy up. I mean, surely the Scougall one's pish too - a guy approaching 32 who's spent the last 4 years at Alloa. The only possible way that would make any sense would be if we get relegated. Are these names coming from any reliable source, or just some randoms online?

The fee is immaterial. Neither Turnbull or Lennon needed to sign extended contracts but did so to make sure the club got a payment for their investment. They knew they were / are going and could have left for nothing but chose to help the club . As I said they are exceptions. Whatever Bair does it is extremely unlikely if he knows he's a wanted man and likely to be leaving that he'd sign an extended contract to ensure Motherwell were taken care of. He, like the vast majority, will when the time comes piss off without so much as a backward glance to the club. Football is full of guys like Chris Cadden..

Where are we getting the £4million from?

Miovski's a much player than Bair. He looks like he chucked it after January this season but still turns up against the Old Firm to keep himself in the shop window.

Well, either him or Harry Paton.

In the real world a player is only as valuable as what another team are prepared to pay, no offers no sale and he walks for nothing next summer.

No even in a lucky bag. His race is run.

Random shite as usual

Their keeper is always good for a howler.

Quite a day it was. 136,000 inside Hampden with thousands locked out. The feeling before the game was that, given the weather conditions, if we could hold Dundee until HT, then we could beat them. Snuffing out Billy Steele, their star man, would be crucial. A banner before the game proclaimed "We're not afraid of Steele as we've handled it all our lives". Just how it turned out: we held them until the break then scored 4 second half goals.

Would rather listen to the complications than most of yer jokes ☺ They were a great band in their time.

A freeze is a good decision in my opinion. If there was an increase I could have afforded it but not everyone is in as fortunate a position. I felt we blundered when we gave season ticket holders a free season a few seasons back. Even say offering them for £100 would have been some income. Anyway I am sure club have looked at finances so all current season ticket holders get it renewed and try and encourage other folk....ba b......ehhh I mean COYW

It really comes down to the criticism and how it's delivered. I doubt that Bair would have any issue with anyone calling into question his record before he arrived at Motherwell or people questioning our signing him based on that record. If we're honest, it was absolutely honking. He'll likely be the first to admit that. He's not an idiot. He'll know his record wasn't great. Another key aspect is being critical of the player's performance and his record without getting personal. But those same fans who were critical of him are now giving him his due credit, so it works both ways, doesn't it? Social media is a cesspool anyway, and any player who reacts to that really needs to sort themselves out. Once we step into the stadium, all that criticism should go out the window. It's at that point we support the team and the manager. I don't think booing or hurling abuse from the stands is acceptable.

Still think Bairs worth more keeping him even if it ends up a January deal. He's got pace and composure and is intelligent player. We wouldn't get 4 or 5 players. More like 3. But even then it may be guys like Wilkinson and Ollie Shaw.

It should be pointed out that there's a huge difference between us signing a player, fans looking at his previous record and discussing how he's performed up until that point, how we think he'll do for us and so on, and actually booing him at a game. The former is a large part of what being a fan of any club is all about. Chatting about speculation, looking at previous stats and so on and discussing how he's done until then and guessing how he'll fit into our squad and setup. If we all stop doing that and only discuss players once they've signed and only strictly discuss how they do for us, and even then only how they do for us after an agreed-upon period of time to allow them to settle in, we'd be as well binning this forum and others like it. It's like the investment thread and the individuals who keep saying, "Let's wait until something is concrete before discussing it." What's the fun in that? If you don't want to discuss it, then don't log in. Go and wait in the corner for official confirmation before weighing in. Leave the rest of us to pass the time discussing signings, speculating about new owners, and generally talking shite. It's what fans have done since the game originated. Previously, it was only done in pubs and workplaces; now, it's done online as well. It's all part of the fun of being a fan. Thanks for letting us all know 😉

Are facepalms considered booing? Asking for a friend! 😆

Only if you make a joke about my future husband Callum Slattery... Then there might be wars 🤣

The £3m "loss" is not an ongoing situation. Money was given during Covid as an interest free loan and the club chose to spend some of that money on changes to the park and hunter stand. That is a one time expense. That was not related to any safety certificate. The main stand has had some issues in the past that needed addressing but i believe that is now sorted and not a large on going cost. So your point about sustainability is completely wide of the mark.

I boo no one. Never have and never will.

The problem for Halliday is that he came with a pedigree so expectations are higher. Im hoping his issues are just lack of football and match fitness and that its not that his legs are just gone. Happy to see how he looks after a proper pre season and a bit more first team football. We should offer Theo an improved deal because he has earned it, but also to show prospective suitors we are serious about keeping him and if they want him they will need to make it worth our while. If we want to push his value up we need to send out the right signals.

Loan

Would actually say Theo Bair is currently the most inform player in the UK

God knows how,

I give you Kevin Van Veen we cashed in perfectly on him, as we did with Michael Higdon. The Motherwell way is cash in when the decent cash is on offer.

I agree

With some add ons or extra for number of goals?

Someone said that on Friday over on P&B. Whether Cowan has heard that from the same source or he's just lifted it from the P&B Forum, who knows.

I read an article about Rotherham's financial struggles and the manager (I think) saying for anyone to put money in it has to be a "passion project" rather than an investment. That's the challenge for most clubs, and you have to be lucky to find someone who would treat it like that - like a fan who wins the lottery. So it's unlikely that any 'normal' investor won't want some sort of return and/or control.

Clarke will probably pick some jobber from English leagues one.

By the same token we would be in a better position if we had not incurred losses of over £3m in the past two accounting years. Those losses are clearly not of concern to some. How long can we sustain losses of that nature? And, Yes, we would still have had to spend a fortune on the East Stand and Pitch even if that previous income had not been available. Possibly funded by the Well Society leaving us even more exposed. Those upgrades were almost mandatory for Safety Certificate reasons and to avoid further SPFL sanctions because of the pitch. And Fir Park will continue to eat up funds as repairs are ongoing. And, if investment had been secured earlier, we could perhaps have also had funds to improve the playing squad rather than bringing in the low cost players you have openly stated are not good enough. There is scope for outside Investment, the Society and player sales. In fact proper application of any Investment could actually result in more profitable youth development, increased player sales and improved performance on the pitch.

Had a wee look at Jacks recent injuries calf and muscle he will 100 percent be on our radar they will be looking for someone to hang with Johnny no hams Obika once he signs on for another year!

Ryan Jack and Halliday would be a decent midfield in wheelchair fitba. The club have put out a Liam Kelly highlights video... an ominous sign.

Couldn't afford his wages and too many injuries in recent years

100% this.

My brother and I did something similar in about 1977, a new year game, and as we had never been at Parkhead before, ended up behind the goals to the left of where the camera's now are. A full 180 degrees round the ground from where we should have been. We had a great view of the only goal of the game though, wee Jim O'Rourke after about 30 minutes, we couldn't celebrate till about an hour after full time.

Me and my dad often talk about going to the Cowdenbeath game. The 3-2 comeback against Celtic in the 3rd round probably fired everyone up, and that team could easily have beaten anyone on their day - losing those 2 semis was an education on being a Motherwell fan.

Turns out a professional football manager knew more about coaching players than random punters on a message board.