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Andy_P

Season 2020'21: Game 2 Dundee Utd (H)

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4 hours ago, Yorkyred said:

I think at times the minute a player leaves us he seems to talked up. The amount of stick that Hartley and Tait took for been to slow, past it, agricultural and suddenly they should have been retained. Tait was actually offered an improved contract and turned it down. The club took pelters for not offering Hastie a new contract after half a dozen good displays and chose to see if it was just a flash in the pan, the sensible approach for a club on a limited budget. He’s now back and after two games taking stick, the club don’t look so daft now. I just find the lack of patience amazing at times, the grass is rarely if ever greener on the other side. We finished third last season and that’s now played down as only happening because everyone else was so poor, surely in that case every other manager should be at risk ? Just about every club will have a poor run of form and without doubt we are on a bad run which started towards the end of last season but just give it time to turn around, it will as it always has under Robinson. He’s made mistakes in the past and will in the future but overall he’s done a very decent job.

You’re way too sensible for this forum, bud....

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4 hours ago, wellwell91 said:

Agree with most of what you are saying but to me he does not seem to learn from his mistakes and is very slow to adapt to righting them or he’s just stubborn 

Grimmy as much as I like the guy and he must be great to have around the squad is not a right back ( played a part in the goal by being the wrong side of Reynolds )

This playing wingers on the wrong side then changing it with on either Long/Watt going on to the wing

Playing Long as a lone striker when everyone and their granny know he cannot play that role

We have so many players I don’t think he knows his best eleven and this has been compounded ( not all his fault due to current circumstances) by playing players for 45 minutes during pre season. Not saying it was right but The Rangers played the same team in just about all their games with most players playing 70 - 80 mins while we chopped and changed all over the place.


 

 

We maybe need more midfield runners to help Long? Like O’hara But didn’t see too much from him yesterday.....maybe another who hasn’t had a proper preseason.

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5 hours ago, Yorkyred said:

I think at times the minute a player leaves us he seems to talked up. The amount of stick that Hartley and Tait took for been to slow, past it, agricultural and suddenly they should have been retained. Tait was actually offered an improved contract and turned it down. The club took pelters for not offering Hastie a new contract after half a dozen good displays and chose to see if it was just a flash in the pan, the sensible approach for a club on a limited budget. He’s now back and after two games taking stick, the club don’t look so daft now. I just find the lack of patience amazing at times, the grass is rarely if ever greener on the other side. We finished third last season and that’s now played down as only happening because everyone else was so poor, surely in that case every other manager should be at risk ? Just about every club will have a poor run of form and without doubt we are on a bad run which started towards the end of last season but just give it time to turn around, it will as it always has under Robinson. He’s made mistakes in the past and will in the future but overall he’s done a very decent job.

One win in 11 tells you everything u need to know about our manager like he hasn't got a clue 

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42 minutes ago, Yodo said:

One win in 11 tells you everything u need to know about our manager like he hasn't got a clue 

Aye but you could counter that by saying something like "third place last season with one of the smallest budgets in the league, our manager's fucking class."

 

Think the truth lies somewhere in the middle tbh.

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51 minutes ago, Yodo said:

One win in 11 tells you everything u need to know about our manager like he hasn't got a clue 

I know, right? Imagine how high we'd have finished in the league last season if he'd had a clue?

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While the players on the park have to perform the manager has to play them where we will get the most benefit. I think he will get there eventually but he does seem to take a while to change things. The inverted wingers has not worked for a while. He also needs to define where players can play. Pointless playing Watt On the left, as someone mentioned that should have been Hylton. Till we are up to full fitness, I’d be telling Turnbull and Polworth to go 100% and switch one for the other when tired. If Long is playing then the formation needs to have him as part of a front 2. I’d like to see us start with a higher pressing game and sub out the tired players, we need to find a way to be more of an attacking threat. 

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1 hour ago, weeyin said:

I know, right? Imagine how high we'd have finished in the league last season if he'd had a clue?

Glad you agree 

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1 hour ago, Yodo said:

One win in 11 tells you everything u need to know about our manager like he hasn't got a clue 

Your vendetta against Robinson is disturbing. Honestly, did he bully you at school or something?

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3 minutes ago, David said:

Your vendetta against Robinson is disturbing. Honestly, did he bully you at school or something?

Is he your dad 

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3 hours ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

We maybe need more midfield runners to help Long? Like O’hara But didn’t see too much from him yesterday.....maybe another who hasn’t had a proper preseason.

More the fact he was asked to play the holding role in midfield yesterday...

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2 hours ago, weeyin said:

I know, right? Imagine how high we'd have finished in the league last season if he'd had a clue?

Yodel....what was favourite season as a well fan and how long have you been following them, cos if you don’t think Robinson has done a reasonable job , it’s not Motherwell you’ve been following.

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4 hours ago, Yodo said:

Is he your dad 

Thats Harry your thinking about , bud

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12 hours ago, Andy_P said:

I don't  know about that.  You can surely attempt to put anything in whatever context you wish, but that doesn't necessarily mean a negative or positive viewpoint hasn't been applied to the context.

You mention Tommy McLean.  When was the last time you heard someone put that 93'94 third place finish in the context of Celtic being at their lowest ebb for about 40 years. Or that both Hibs and Hearts were having budget cuts because they were in the midst of ground reconstruction? Is that not putting that in context too?  It is, but it's just applying the context really negatively.

The same as someone dubious of Robinson might suggest that there is little worth attached to the achievement of finishing third in the table because that particular season they only happened to be marginally less bad than another nine teams what was a poor standard of league,  Just the  same as someone more supportive of Robinson may put a third place finish in the context of that team having the  second or third lowest budget in the league and achieving beyond the expectation level.

 

 

I was going to reply making a similar point but you have made it far better than I could. 

The beauty of undermining the current Spfl teams is that before a ball is kicked anything short of a 2nd place finish or a Cup Final victory renders any other success in the season short off this as failure.  

Must be hard to know as a  Motherwell manager that before a ball is kicked, a 3rd place finish is not going to cut it with a minority of the support. 

 

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2 hours ago, steelboy said:

Grimshaw's defending was criminal at that goal. 

The defending on our left flank was far worse. The United player was afforded all the time and space he could reasonably ask for to whip over his cross. I just wish our wingers were given that degree of freedom. 

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3 hours ago, star sail said:

I was going to reply making a similar point but you have made it far better than I could. 

The beauty of undermining the current Spfl teams is that before a ball is kicked anything short of a 2nd place finish or a Cup Final victory renders any other success in the season short off this as failure.  

Must be hard to know as a  Motherwell manager that before a ball is kicked, a 3rd place finish is not going to cut it with a minority of the support. 

 

Thats just nonsense tho. Maybe Im reading it wrong, but all thats being asked for is for our "third" place finish to be held in context. Its nothing like previous years when teams were rebuilding etc because we never played a full seasons matches, we literally stopped with almost a quarter of fixtures still to play! When the season was ending we were in serious danger of being the only team in the history of the SPL to make it to 40+ points and NOT make the top 6, such was the utter cunt we were making of things. 

Last years 3rd place finish is an achievement on paper, but in reality more of a technicality than true achievement. We werent 15 points clear like Celtic, we had won 1 match in 8 and were hanging on to our place in the top 6 for grim death. We got lucky, Il take that! 

What last seasons final league position shouldnt be, is something thats used to paper over the cracks that are very evident this season! We are on a retched run, the Managers recruitment looks awful....... again........ we look unfit and disorganised at the start of a season......... again. And now he is clutching at straws claiming we have a "young team" when there are more 28-32 year olds in it than 21 year olds, thats bollocks thrown out to deflect from the fact that the Manager has made a rip roaring cunt of our pre season.

As I said in a previous post, any other manager in world football would be under serious pressure to deliver after 1 win in 11, but ours isnt. We all know that on wed night, Hastie will be back at right wing, Grimshaw will be at RB, Long will be back as TM and Watt will be back on the bench, to come on late  probably on the wing, and we will yet again be known as Motherwell Nil. Only hope is Livvy are equally shite so we can scrape a draw

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Only 3 teams had clinched a top 3 place, Motherwell were one of them.  We had the second youngest team in the opening fixtures, only Hamilton had younger.

But yes we were stuttering last season although I think we had turned it around a little.

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8 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

The defending on our left flank was far worse. The United player was afforded all the time and space he could reasonably ask for to whip over his cross. I just wish our wingers were given that degree of freedom. 

And the goalkeeping leading to it even worse than that.  

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5 hours ago, Shaka said:

Thats just nonsense tho. Maybe Im reading it wrong, but all thats being asked for is for our "third" place finish to be held in context. Its nothing like previous years when teams were rebuilding etc because we never played a full seasons matches, we literally stopped with almost a quarter of fixtures still to play! When the season was ending we were in serious danger of being the only team in the history of the SPL to make it to 40+ points and NOT make the top 6, such was the utter cunt we were making of things. 

Last years 3rd place finish is an achievement on paper, but in reality more of a technicality than true achievement. We werent 15 points clear like Celtic, we had won 1 match in 8 and were hanging on to our place in the top 6 for grim death. We got lucky, Il take that! 

What last seasons final league position shouldnt be, is something thats used to paper over the cracks that are very evident this season! We are on a retched run, the Managers recruitment looks awful....... again........ we look unfit and disorganised at the start of a season......... again. And now he is clutching at straws claiming we have a "young team" when there are more 28-32 year olds in it than 21 year olds, thats bollocks thrown out to deflect from the fact that the Manager has made a rip roaring cunt of our pre season.

As I said in a previous post, any other manager in world football would be under serious pressure to deliver after 1 win in 11, but ours isnt. We all know that on wed night, Hastie will be back at right wing, Grimshaw will be at RB, Long will be back as TM and Watt will be back on the bench, to come on late  probably on the wing, and we will yet again be known as Motherwell Nil. Only hope is Livvy are equally shite so we can scrape a draw

In my view it’s way too early to state the recruitment has been poor this summer. I thought McGinn was one of the better players against Ross County and Lamie did ok. White looks like something different off the bench. I like OHara and think he will offer enough over the season and I believe Lang is going to be a fans favourite very quickly. A lot has been made of fitness but we’ve dominated possession and had plenty of chances on goal, we just can’t finish. On the age of the team i’m pretty sure we actually do have one of the youngest squads in the division.

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5 hours ago, Shaka said:

Last years 3rd place finish is an achievement on paper, but in reality more of a technicality than true achievement. We werent 15 points clear like Celtic, we had won 1 match in 8 and were hanging on to our place in the top 6 for grim death. We got lucky, Il take that! 

 

It's a true achievement because we actually accrued more points than any other team and that got us to third place.

We took 4 points from 6 in the games before the and were denied the opportunity to extend our lead in third place over the team in fourth when the league was stopped.

The supposition that we would have dropped out of the top six is no more or less valid than the supposition that we might have tonked Aberdeen 3-0 again and ended up eight points clear in third by the end of the season. Again it comes back to whatever context you want to place it in.

 

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6 hours ago, Shaka said:

Thats just nonsense tho. Maybe Im reading it wrong, but all thats being asked for is for our "third" place finish to be held in context. 

As I said in a previous post, any other manager in world football would be under serious pressure to deliver after 1 win in 11, but ours isnt. We all know that on wed night, Hastie will be back at right wing, Grimshaw will be at RB, Long will be back as TM and Watt will be back on the bench, to come on late  probably on the wing, and we will yet again be known as Motherwell Nil. Only hope is Livvy are equally shite so we can scrape a draw

Let's say for arguments sake that the season had lasted from Jan 19 to the finish in March 20. Motherwell would have still finished third in that case. They proved to be the 3rd best team for over a year. Belt and braces, 3rd best in the league. Something to celebrate. That the context should be that the achievement be judged on the games that had still to be played (and we will never know the result of) suggests to me that a certain spin is being applied to the context.

I understand that in a certain context (there it is again) one win in eleven would indeed end in sacking and in modern football more often than not, managers do get sacked but I think it is something for Well fans to celebrate that our board tend to buck that trend and back their man. It also comes after a 3rd place finish which in any context is an achievement for a team like ours.

We have been here before during the sticky spell in the second half of 2018, with some of the support wanting Robinson sacked then. His team then went on a great run in 2019. I know that again some will say that was luck but to be lucky over a 12-14 month period stretches that argument a little.

You might be right this time. The poor run may continue but only two games into a new season I think he has earned the right for us to back him.  I think he will turn it round again but I am one of those happy clappers. 

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@Shaka what are you talking about in relation to bottom six, it was literally impossible when the league finished for us to finish lower than 6th.  It is why we got a higher payout than Aberdeen in late March. 

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1 hour ago, Wellfan1984 said:

And the goalkeeping leading to it even worse than that.  

I wouldn't say that it was worse but it was certainly poor. All in all the United goal was a team effort.

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2 hours ago, Wellfan1984 said:

And the goalkeeping leading to it even worse than that.  

Thanks to Carson we did not lose both games 2-0. 

As for writing off recruitment at this stage. Sums up some posters that they cannot bring themselves or will not allow the Manager or Players any breathing room. Same every season so should not be surprised. 

I actually think our recruitment has been sound. As for that matter do the pundits and fans of other clubs. 

I do believe we should have started better and I do believe we have a great deal of improving to do.  Ross County was small margins. 

Where I do have concerns is defence. We appear to have so few options. Mugabi and Grimmy are back up players at best. I like Grimmy. Wears his heart on his sleeve but he is a very poor defender as the goal on Saturday showed. Others were culpable but to let a defender run in unopposed and look surprised sums up his contribution so far. I would love him to turn things round but so far it has been a poor start from him. Mugabi also looked so uncomfortable with the ball at his feet. 

Wednesday is a huge game already. We cannot afford to lose and really could do with a decent win to get fans and players back on track. 

 

 

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