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Good post. When Sevco when in the lower leagues, an issue in itself, there was a vote to change the distribution of prize money but one club, which expected to finish 2nd, voted against change. In the event they were pipped to the runners up spot with seconds of the season to go. 🤣

As pessimistic as I am about Sunday and any game against the Old Firm nowadays, I desperately hope that we can defy the odds and finally get a win against them. It would be especially satisfying to finally get a win against Celtic and that sanctimonious shark faced prick Rodgers and hopefully drive another nail into their title challenge.

The "why" is because John Boyle ran up massive debts as an owner/investor. While he didn't call in all that he was owed, he did leave us in a bit of a state when he gave up his holding. One of the reasons we ended up as fan owned was because JB couldn't find a buyer for a club with our problems. As he had put us into administration it meant the club couldn't get a bank loan (for 10 years as I recall) which, even for wealthy investors, is often a requirement for running a business. Whether you like the man or not, we were lucky Les was around to fund us and steer us in the right direction for fan ownership otherwise we could have been floating around the lower leagues by now - or worse. In fact, if you want to see the dangers of a single investor, Boyle is a great example - a fan, a businessman, and a guy who wanted the best for the club, but still managed to nearly kill us off.

I can't understand the obsession some people have about beating either of the ugly sisters, especially the blue half, we've beaten both of them in games that matter over the years , the 91 semi final, 2015 playoff final, 2017/18 league Cup, yes a league win is nice but its not as simple as that. The uncomfortable truth whether people like it or not is that they are both much better teams than us (Rangers playoff final team excepted) so we don't have a god given right to expect to beat them every time we play them. All these stats about other teams having better records than ours etc are irrelevant it's nothing to do with mental attitude either, every Motherwell player goes into every game hoping to win, but in the real world you get beaten by better teams, who cares if its 20 odd years since our last league win against the blue uglies I'd rather see us winning against the other 9 teams, to earn a Euro spot, a decent cup run, stay in the premiership etc, people need to chill out a bit.

So all you are interested in is beating the uglies, and the statement you make about "nearly every other club in the league having a better record against them than us" is just bullshit. But if that's your sole ambition as a Motherwell fan to beat the ugly sisters then who am I to argue, best of luck coping with being disappointed most years.

I care. I find it utterly depressing that nearly every other club in the league has a better record against the OF than us. That's where we differ. I couldn't care less if Motherwell ever qualified for Europe ever again. Other than a junket and piss up they are an utter waste of time. If we don't utterly embarrass Scottish football (Flamaturi, MyPa47, Stjarnan and Sligo Rovers) we invariably play utter shite and are out before it even starts.

Whoa! You almost had me onside there. Best you go and have a sit down now.

The SPL and now SPFL were set up mostly to benefit the OF. SPL was created with 10 teams to guarantee 4 OF derbies a season. The splitting of gate money was changed to "home team keeps everything" to ensure the OF had proportionately more income. The top-heavy weighting of the 1st and 2nd prize money was created to ensure the OF received the most cash the majority of the seasons. And let's not forget how the authorities wanted to keep Sevco in the top league after liquidation. Even after the fan protests they went against their own rule book and kept them in the league despite the precedent set by the treatment of teams like Gretna. So it's not completely unreasonable for any team to mention the disparity in resources when we come up against them. We are literally playing against a stacked deck every time. But it's football, and in single games, points can be won against them - and winning them is sweeter thanks to the same disparity. The fact that both sides are supported by many small minded bigots just adds the pleasure when we do win.

My attitude is they're just another team in the same league as us. It doesnt bother me any more having a poor record against either of the OF than it does any other team. I really don't care how long it's been since we beat them, I only care about the next game.

I whole-heartedly agree with pretty much all of that. I've been going to Fir Park for (scarily) nearly 57 years, I've seen good teams that won nothing, a cup win, multiple semi-final and final heart breaks, relegations and promotions, and loads of seasons in-between. I sit and watch games from the cooper stand with my daughter and brother-in-law and I hope that, sooner rather than later, at least one of my grand children will take up a seat close to me. If (when) we get relegated, will I be happy? No. If and when we do go down, will I be happy if we end up like Dunfermline or Falkirk, or worse still Cowdenbeath or Albion Rovers? No. But I wouldn't swap those eventualities for five years of relative success, funded by a megalomaniac which led to the death of the club I love. If I was a St. Johnstone fan, I would be very wary of what is to come.

I really can't see what the appeal would be to any business person in buying into Scottish Football. Unless they're working a deal to end up owning the stadium and land when the club inevitably can't pay back the 'investment'. There's less than a million in prize money between 4th and 12th, so even if some rich benefactor contributes say £1M a year to increase player quality (and up the wages available for players), even if doing it guarantees 3rd place, there's still no profit to take out. We've had a rich fan owner, installing unqualified people to run the club and we all know how that turned out. Unless you're Celtic, there are no massive profits from which to recoup investment. For better or for worse, I'd like to see our club continue to run in a way it can survive and carry on surviving whatever that might mean. I certainly don't want to be the next Gretna, or even Dundee, or h**s or Livi. People on here regularly say they want to see the club 'pushing the boat out, showing ambition and investing in the squad'. I'd love to see the plan of how that is expected to play out.

I have been saying that for a long time. Thanks for posting this mate.

I'm not that young either, but I'd also like to think we're leaving behind a solid community club for our children and their children. Football, for the most part, has become the game of the rich and wealthy. Bought up by millionaires, billionaires, and oil-rich nations. With very few exceptions, that is all that football fans of a certain age know. They buy their overpriced English Premiership jersey of choice, pay to have their favourite multi-millionaire mercenary's name added to the back of it, and watch their team on their large 4K telly in surround sound. Motherwell and clubs like us are different. When I go to a game with a young family member, their heroes can be accosted outside Fir Park for a photo, autograph, and a chat. Our young fans don't need to be happy with briefly seeing their favourite player walk past, head down and headphones on, behind a wall of security as they head into the stadium. Our younger generation can sit in the season ticket seat that our father or grandfather once sat in. For the most part, they can rest assured that they won't be priced out of that, to be replaced with some foreigner who's here on a "football holiday" wearing a half-and-half scarf and paying over the odds to some company that snaps up seats by the tens or hundreds to sell in packages. I like who we are as a club. I like that we employ financial responsibility and don't rely on money from elsewhere. I also like that we are very much community-based. I know that angle gets a lot of slating on here, but I like that our social media account bears the tagline that we exist to improve people's lives. If football doesn't exist to provide value and enjoyment and to improve the lives of those who follow it, then what's the point? To fill the coffers of the wealthy owners? To sell jerseys? We'd all love to win a cup, but I'd honestly much rather we had a fan-owned club that we could be proud of, and that will be there for future generations in a stadium that holds a lot of family memories than anything else. If our fanbase can only afford to support a club that ends up playing in the Championship or even lower, then so be it. I'll still be there, hoping to win the next game and pouring over the stats of our next unknown signing before writing them off and then being proved beautifully wrong as they defy the odds and come good.

You think the players go out there under the belief that they can't win? I don't agree. Most professionals who make it to a level of the sport where they're actually being paid quite well and make a full-time living from the game are rarely the type to be mentally weak. You don't get to even this level of the game without believing you are one of the best out there. Why do you think we see our players consistently leaving for bigger clubs despite the general belief being that they won't get any game time? Sure, the money helps, but I think you'd be hard-pressed to find any professional-level footballer who doesn't believe he can reach the heights if only he was given a chance. Belief that they can get a result isn't the issue. The issue is that we don't have the actual quality in our team to do it for the most part. Mentality and belief can only go so far.

Or just stand McGregor next to Gregor. That would be enough to scare anyone.

Regardless of who owns the club we still have to try and live within our means. Otherwise the club just ends up owing money to the investor rather than a bank. Im sure with the correct investment there is maybe more we can do in terms of the academy, facilities etc which make the club a more attractive place to come and play. However, we need to be making better decisions as a whole and not spaffing money against the wall on managers and players that dont move us forward and generate the extra revenue that can move us forward. Otherwise you end up like Dundee United, playing in the Championship, millions in debt to an American owner who might call it a day at any point. Outward investment could be a good thing for us. But it needs to be the right investor with the right intentions and hopefully the business acumen to maje us a more sustainable proposition.

Providing the Well Society retains no less than 51% ownership, I'm pretty much open to any ideas at this stage.

I don't see what potential we offer foreign investors, so I'd be very cautious about any approach re ownership. Same as St Johnstone must be. 'Brown admitted the sale was tricky due to the vast land value of the stadium footprint, a 22-acre plot valued at up to £20million. A key part of his final deal is likely to be extracting cast-iron assurances about the long-term plan for his hometown club.'

I don’t think it’s one specific person or group of people informing numerous managers of that, it’s just something that has become rife throughout the club during the past twenty odd years. Terry Butcher was the one who started the “we’re punching above our weight” and Alan Burrows parroted that on here in this forums early years and the latter obviously went on to have a huge influence within the club, but I don’t think it’s simply down to him. It’s no coincidence that that mentality has grown arms and legs with the rise of social media which allowed the support as a whole to start buying into it when they hear a lot of the sound bites coming out of the club about how skint we are, how we’re punching above our weight etc. As a fan owned club it’s to be expected that that mindset then becomes rife within the boardroom as well as the stands. That numerous managers and players buy into it is to be expected. In any business if employees are told over and over again by their superiors that exceeding expectations doesn’t matter and that as long as they reach their bare minimum target every year then that isn’t going to motivate or push them to go that extra mile.

I'm not sure there's much benefit to owning most Premiership clubs. You're unlikely to make a profit unless you are selling the assets. Clubs our size, and bigger, that have investors all seem to be in pretty significant debt - except it's the owners they owe money to rather than the banks. A football club in most cases is an expensive hobby, so the best case is for a wealthy individual to invest for fun. Then you run the risk of disaster when they get bored or skint (or in the case of Gretna, die). Unless we were going bankrupt, I wouldn't want to give up fan ownership.

MJC, I have a huge amount of sympathy with what you have to say here and the game you mention was a perfect example of a Motherwell manager talking us into defeat before a ball was kicked. Our record against the OF is terrible and it is slightly depressing when you see our own fans just accept it and defend it as being just fine. What I would say is that when you see how poor our record has been over the last couple of decades, it makes it all the more remarkable that both Robinson and Baraclough were able to change the narrative, if only temporarily. Our league is heavily weighted in terms of the OF, there is no doubt about that and when you see the meltdown that occurs when another Premiership team goes to Celtic Park or Ibrox and dares to even draw ( as per Killie on Saturday) then you can tell that beating the OF is never considered part of the script for any team . I think I read at the weekend that Ross County have never beaten Rangers. If that is true, it shows just how heavily the cards are stacked. You just never know about this weekend. I think we deserve just one headline, marquee result this season. This just might be it. We have to dream.