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It doesn't matter what style of football you play fans like to moan. Even more so these days when pretty much everything is infused with a sense of entitlement. We put in a better performance against a better team in last year's semi final and the knives came out. It shouldn't surprise anyone. Right now we are Top 6 and got to a semi final. We are playing the best football since David Turnbull was in the side, which is 5 or 6 years ago now. The manager has less than 20 games in charge and we are a work in progress. There is areas we need to improve in but since football perfection can't be achieved by teams spending half a billion in the close season, why don't we just accept that and let the manager try to improve in those areas.

Why do people obsess what it looks like in TV, who gives a fuck about those watching on TV. They are putting fuck all into the fixture.

Chill out folks. Yes it was a bad day at the office, but we are essentially three months into the season, we have totally transformed our style of play and overall it’s been fantastic so far to watch. We got outfoxed yesterday by a very organised system, it happens. Also I think had we not lost that third goal then an equaliser could have maybe came, but St Mirren easily deserved their victory yesterday. I think the manager has recruited very well and when we get into January then he will have a much clearer understanding of what he might need to bring in during the window. To essentially write this whole project off due to one game seems mental to me, don’t understand what some of our fans want sometimes.

If Slattery was fully fit he would have started today. We have to remember that was his 3 rd game in a week after a return from injury. The manager has to manage those situations carefully. The game is won and lost on fine margins. The first, the referee helped to tee the corner up for Saints. The second, Just was unlucky that the ball hit off him and landed as it did. It was a great finish none the less. The 3rd could just as easily have been a great save but the ball looped into the back of the net For me the first goal set the tone and St Mirren managed the game very well from that point onwards. When I take a step back from the obvious disappointment of the evening, I would still rather be watching our brand of football than St Mirrens and I believe by seasons end we will still finish above them.

I honestly think its wild some of the comments on here. Yes, yesterday was terrible but some of the over the top comments regards the manager and players are just silly. The manager came in early to mid june, has changed a full system, has had only 1 transfer window to right the horror show that was Kettleball and for me has done a tremendous job. There will be ups and downs and the players probably still arent what or where the manager wants. If the players/mnager were all top notch and consistant they wouldnt be playing for/managing Motherwell so have a look at yourselves. We are all gutted and we all dreamt of a cup final but some need to get a grip.

St Mirren's game plan was successful last night but there is a ceiling to that style of play. That is why Scottish teams are embarrassed every July/ August by European minnows who'd style of play had moved on from the 1980's. Remember that Robinson's / Alexander's/ Kettlewell's style of football was generally rejected on this forum because of it's pragmatic industrial approach. A Motherwell team playing the traditional Scottish way could just as easily have lost that game last night. SR is very good at what he does. I don't doubt that this is an experiment that may not work. Our old Captain Stephen Craigan had already written it off during the League Cup group stage. Kris Boyd predicted us as relegation favourites but I think both of those dinosaurs have already been proved wrong. I think any one of us would have taken this season to date if we had been offered it back in August.

I believe our starting lineup reflected an intention to get in behind St Mirren on either flank - hence Said and Maswanhise and not Slattery. But neither Said nor Maswanhise offered anything like what they should have and this was compounded by Koutrumbus and Longelo being far too tentative and lacking in any menace. So Stamatulopoulos had little or no chance of being effective. I’m with mio - I despise St Mirren and their ethos of robust directness. They are ugly to watch, graceless in victory and were given, rather than created, three of their goals. It wasn’t their tactics or their style that beat us - although to listen to their self analysis that is what they are claiming. They broke up play by going down at almost every contact, they stole yards after every dead ball and slowed the game down as often as they could. A weak referee and our failure to stay firm at the back were our undoing, not a Robinson masterclass. I am sorry that such a remarkable turnout if our fans were so sadly disappointed - they deserved better - but I doubt we were beaten by the better team

You also forget even at our worst in the first half their keeper had to bring off a great save and Manwanhise fluffed an effort that should have been a goal. There is a lot of nonsense talked about St Mirren yesterday, plus they got the breaks. They basically just did their job effectively. They did nothing that we shouldn't have been able to deal with had our players turned up, there was no tactical masterclass. Virtually everyone of our player was posted missing or at best underperformed. Even as bad as we were we could have had them sweating but for a comedy of errors straight after we scored. On another day we'd take St Mirren, yesterday just wasn't our day. We forget it and move on.

But they are though. They can barely string a few passes together. Hit long and chase type football. As others say, it only gets you so far. Any mid table Norwegian or Danish team would pump them. This has been the whole revelation of the JBA regime so far - we (in Scotland) can play the continental way as well. The soil here is not cursed. Yes, there will be ups and downs (yesterday) along the way, but you can basically take a hoofball style team and make them actually play football. The big Q is - can we take it to the next level? Not only play tidy stuff, but make it consistently effective? I think we can get there by next season with this season as more of a development year (but could still clinch top 6). I'm probably getting ahead of myself now, but if JBA is able to really pull this off and get us either a cup win, playing well in Europe etc. it could really change things in Scottish football long term. Other teams will look at it and think - why can't we have that?

One thing I'd like to pull you up on - unless my memory is failing me, we were utter dug meat in last year's semi final. Our goal came from a big hopeful boot into the box and we could barely string two passes together the entire game. Last night was poor - poorer than we've become accustomed to this season. We still scored a goal and missed another couple of well-worked chances. We were miles better yesterday than the semi last year.

Focusing on yesterday it appears that on here at least Ap Stam, our lack of a goal threat and Ward are being cited as the root cause of that performance. In fact some appear to be revelling in that reasoning. Ap Stam did not have a great game and we need improvement, but he and Ward were far from the worst players on view. Being let of lightly by most are Watt, Maswanhise, Fadinger, Longolo and McGinn who delivered far less than Stam and Ward. In fact Maswanhise, Watt and Longolo turned in performances almost as dire as they did against Livi. Except yesterday they did not have the convenient excuse of an artificial surface that seemingly affected their ability to run or pass the ball. On a Managerial comparison, Askou was completely out thought by Robinson who devised a system that negated the advantage we thought we would have given the larger playing surface. Can I suggest Robinson learned more from our earlier meeting than Askou did? Looked to me that Saints were perfectly happy to surrender space out wide knowing that we would more often than not slow the game down and eventually meekly surrender the ball. Time after time. Team selection wise, given the hype regarding the threat the Saints giants pose, I get why Askou selected Gordon. But not selecting Welsh and retaining McGinn was a huge error in my opinion. Welsh is the only Centre Back we have with the ability to pass the ball forward (through a pressing opposition) to the feet of our midfield/forwards. Driving us upfield. What we saw first half was the ball repeatedly played along the back line making it almost impossible for Said and Longolo to press forward quickly. On the right side, Katroumbis was a bit more effective offensively but sadly he received poor support from Maswanhise. I think Askou acknowledged that situation at Half Time which is why Welsh appeared. Why else bring on a Centre Back when losing 2-0? I also think Slattery should have started or at least been brought on along with Welsh. So, No, I don't believe Stam and Ward were the main reason we fell short yesterday. Far from it. Too many of our players had possibly their worst performance of the season, not assisted by team selection. I'm far from jumping ship as regards our new approach, but previous Managers were rightly slated for not having a plan B to revert to in times of need. So far I have seen nothing to suggest that Askou is any different. We have a difficult run of games coming up and we are far too predictable. Hopefully we will see some tactical changes that give opposition Managers food for thought. Surely that can be the case without moving away from our possession/passing approach. It was far too easy for Robinson and his players yesterday. Having said all that, it is astounding how one piece of refereeing incompetence can change the dynamics of a game.

The macaroni and Scotch pie combo I got after their second goal. They charged and refunded my card at the same time and I only noticed today. Winner. Small victories in a day of shite.

Our style of play will fail. Like all the other styles have been a roaring success. Fans want to be entertained. We have been this EARLY in the season. We are Motherwell and as history shows are not consistent in performances. We are all disappointed but stop the OTT reactions and get behind the team and encourage them to improve. There seems almost like a smugness by some that we failed to win yesterday. A sort of I told you so that it would fail. There is no patience in society and realism of where we are in the football world. Fans moaning no matter what we do. What the hell do they want from a team that's unlikely to win a league or fluke a cup. After all you do need abit of luck to win a cup. Our team is much better than 12 months ago. We can only improve. Finally St Mirren are an effective team and even the very best teams in world football struggle against that type of team. That style gets you so far and I don't recall any teams playing like that winning a league or a cup on a regular basis. Motherwell doing Motherwell things ain't new. You would think we would be used to and expect it by now. That's what makes supporting our club special. You just never know if it's going to be awful, average or brilliant. It hurts today, but you just know that won't last.

Jens seems an intelligent measured bloke. He will have a good idea where we need to improve...as people have mentioned he's less than 6 months in the job , so we all need to chill despite yesterday's disappointment.

I didn't like St Mirren's style of playing but it was effective. Strip out the cynicism, playacting and fouling and you are left with a sound gameplan that succeeded. They bottled up the wings and were quite content to let us knock the ball about nicely in areas of the pitch that didn't matter. Sit back, test us and wait for the mistakes. It worked a treat. I'm still not 100% sold on our brand of football. Call me a dinosaur if you want. Yes, I like attratctive flowing football, but it has to have some purpose, some end product. There has to be a solid defence and an attack thats lethal. As it is, we knock the ball about nicely but too often in an aimless way. If, and its a big if, St Mirren win the League Cup Final how many of our fans will stick to their principles and say that they'd rather be knocked out 4-1 in the semi trying to play modern football than win it playing ugly. Our experiment still has a way to go and that must involve personnel changes in January, but I'm still not totally convinced we can pull off our switch to modern possession based football. I hope I'm wrong.

Well what an anti climax that was. 1st goal shouldn't have stood but apart from that no excuses. I am huge Askou fan but he got starting line-up wrong, Welsh and slatts should have started. No point having loads of possession and doing hee haw with it. Our full ba cks terrible today and I have defended Stama loads but Hendry needs a run. It's disappointing but this is still a work in progress and as long as Askou learns from it then I am sure we can have a good season

After travelling back home today and reflecting on yesterday's HUGE let down. Team selection was wrong. St Mirren had a plan, and played us brilliantly. They were quite happy for us to play with the ball in our half and not waste any energy chasing lost causes and they marshalled the midfield. At 2-0 down, nothing really changed. Lets remember, we lost 4-1 and they hit the post and the bar. Like the majority of the people on here, I would love to see JBA succeed, but sometimes you have to clear the ball, and sometimes you have to try a different approach. JBA was out thought by SR, and the team were out fought. We are all incredibly disappointed, and we need a win an our next game to change the mood.

Happy with that. Need Welsh back, in the last 2 games he didn't start we have conceded 7 goals

Not sure why Welsh didn’t start yesterday. I’d say our center back pair should always be Welsh +1, probably McGinn at the moment. I’d stick with Fadinger and Watt. Perhaps JT sub and RCC starting? Or start JT to see which one we are getting and then decide from there. Slattery to start. O’Donnell and Johnny. One starts one subs on don’t care which order. Longelo starts since no real option but hope he’s a bit more aggressive down the line, like he was doing a few games ago. Give Hendry a go to start this game. I think he’s looking better each game. No reason we can’t do well in this game other than it’s not very often we beat Aberdeen 3 times in a row.

You never know which JT is going to turn up but he is our top scorer. If we could get consistent performances from him that would be a big boost……. Till we Sold him.

My take on it is the opposition adapting to us. Was more obvious against utd... sit off, let us have the ball in our half and make us break them down, as opposed to pressing higher up and leaving space to exploit. Going to need to find a way round it. Yesterday it did feel like there was opportunities but we didnt move quickly enough which was frustrating.

Dont know why Ward or AP is getting the abuse they are getting. What did they do wrong yesterday? Seems people want a witch hunt, but not their favourites obviously. Alot of below par performances, which happens. I am sure the management know our weaknesses and what needs improving. But that takes time. You need confidence to play they way we have been doing, lets not get on players backs, as that aint going to help anyone other than the opposition. Seems some are reveling in our defeat, rather than concentrate on the fact off what we actually have achieved in a short period of time.

There is so much bollocks being talked about tactics, formations, tactical genius blah blah blah. The simple reality is every one one of our players under performed from what we know they can. Every St Mirren player played to their potential. Play that game another day its a different result. St Mirren got the break of the crucial refereeing decision that settled them down to get them ahead. Even in the first half when we were at our poorest their keeper brings of a great save and manwanhise fluffs a great chance. We were really poor but the "excellent" St Mirren performance very nearly derailed. Had we not given away a comedy goal straight after we equalise I think St Mirren could have been rocking. Yesterday was a very fine margin despite how we underperformed.

And why put fans to the expense of going to Edinburgh which would take a few thousand of the crowd when Hampden is right between Paisley and Motherwell.

The focus on retaining possession seems to have overtaken the need to get the ball into the box, leaving our play pedestrian and easy for opponents to manage in non-dangerous areas.

Agree with that mate

2-0 defeat

Some would have been glad to miss that dire show.

He made a few quips at us but one was “football with a purpose…. Total domination” talking about st mirrens style. whether you view he has a point or not he was our captain and was well liked at Fir Park, try and be a little respectful rather than mocking the style of football we play. i look forward to him inevitably failing as a manager.

Watching StMirren is like watching a really well organised, extremely fit and half decent junior team from the 1980s We were awful yesterday to a man and it was just a terrible day at the office and it did just feel St Mirren wanted it more and I did mention before we were maybe believing our own press a bit. gutting to go out to that side and it’s gutting listening to some comments flying about on social media from their fans and ex players…. Disappointingly one from our old captain Peter Hartley making smart ar5e comments about style of play. in saying that and as much as I dislike him, I thought Gogic was the real difference yesterday, he was the driving force behind their win…. I’ll clear the vomit from my throat now

Decided to watch brief highlights, 3rd goal is like scene from a keystone kops movie. Longelo and Watt been excellent but both decided to have worst game of season yesterday. Also he wasn't reason we lost but Ward doesn't inspire confidence in me. I also feel Maswanhise blows hot and cold. However......if askou and players can learn from this there is no reason we cant get back on track for a good season. January transfer window will be very interesting and hopefully we bring in the right players for key positions. COYW

Great post! Bigger picture is top 6 so far, a semi final appearance and a great style of football to watch every week (after less than 20 games in charge). We lacked a physical presence in both boxes yesterday and didn’t get the rub of the green. Whilst 4-1 looks awful the scoreline flatters them massively if you watched the game. As others have said we are 2/3 players away from being a really good team with an attractive style of play. Question is can we find those 2/3 players on our budget, time will tell but it’s much better to watch than Kettlewell or Hammell’s poor teams over recent years.

Yawn

I thought Ward had a good game and was unfortunate for the third goal. He was left totally exposed by defensive dithering in front of him and did well to make the save initially. Regarding the need for reinforcements, I wasn't too impressed by Robinson during SK's tenure but could he be a better fit with our current style of play?

One positive from today, a crowd of 21,377 is a great effort from 2 supposed diddy teams. Shame we couldnt put on a show to encourage more of our lot to come back.

Stama won't do was on the fence for last while but he has no killer instinct of a striker .Too tippy tappty light weight.Hes there to score goals n doesn't unless itss a pen .That's what we need, at least one anyway.

Dundee Utd on Wednesday??

To these people saying we need to abandon the style play , you are talking nonsense. What we need is to replace players with guys who can do it and that's why the January window will be important. I'd rather watch us playing like we do even if we lose than watch the utter shite Kilmarnock fans are watching when they lose.

Let's no go over the top here gents. A disappointing performance no doubt, but their first 2 goals - what can you say really? First one awful defending - thats nothing to do with our style. Second one they get a break and their forward scores probably his best goal of the season. After we got our goal back, St. Mirren did dominate and we crumbled at the back - but we were chasing the game and desperate at that point. What needs to change for us? It's been said a million times but Ap Stam won't cut the mustard. Hopefully Hendry can fill that gap but it's 50/50 right now whether he can, although I personally think he's much better than Ap at least. Crossing diabolical and what's even the point when we have nobody with any real threat from headers? JBA will be aware of this - we've made great progress so far this season but don't forget JBA has been here less than 6 months. He will need some windows to identify weaknesses and plug gaps. Robinson has been with St. Mirren and good while and has optimised his team (and they're still shite). A perhaps necessary lesson today.

St Mirren got every break going and 4 1 wasn’t entirely deserved but we never had a plan how to deal with them. Thats the blueprint for others now. We need to be adaptable

I know people are upset, but if we're going to abandon everything after a poor game, then we might was well bring back Hammell or Malpas and play "proper" Scottish football. Go back and reed last season's match threads if you want to see what's in store if we go back down that path. I'd rather we keep developing and bring in a few more players that fit in January than go back to Kettle-ball.

Not our day. Back to league business. As well getting beat 4-1 as 2-1. well below our best as a team and individually today but hopefully that won’t happen too many games.

Sounds like Rugby Park is the place for you.

As i said to dennyc I don't see a lot of criticism aimed at Ward and Stama for yesterday. For Stama especially i have probably been his biggest supporter on this forum, I think a 4 4 2 would suit him hence I suggest Hendry up top. Maswanhise is the one who for me flatters to deceive at times and ww need more from him but in all honesty about 7 or 8 of team were below par yesterday and picked the biggest stage to blow it