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Grieve Dunne Strain sounds like one of Charles' regular injuries.

Dear Christ we've offered Mugabi another contract. What a waste of limited funds. I know it's all opinions and others will think different. My only hope he refuses and gets a better offer.

You don’t have to actually say it to ‘say it’. We’ve seen this script far too many times with us bringing back McFadden and giving him game time when he was clearly done, yet he could do no wrong in the eyes of some fans. The same applies to Moult during his ill fated loan spell in 2022 and I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever it would be the same with van Veen should he come back over a year older, unfit and contributing next to nothing. We as a club need to learn to look forward not backwards when it comes to recruitment. Kevin van Veen has had his time with us, it was great while it lasted but it’s done, it’s past and we move on, or at least we should move on. Here’s a novel idea, instead of trying to re-sign Kevin van Veen, Shaun Hutchinson(that one really would take the biscuit and fucking choke on it btw) and other popular ex players, why don’t we try and find new players who could hopefully contribute what KvV and Shaun Hutchinson etc did when they were younger, fitter and able to offer us more?

"Clean sheets don't matter that much" Of course they do, thats quite an odd thing to say 🤒

Well reasoned and sensible posts like that don't suit you normally, are you feeling OK? 😀

If you spend half as much time studying as you do posting on here, you'll sail through your exams!

Calm down ffs, the transfer window is not even open yet, it will be the same as every other year weeks of rumours every one of which will be labelled as pish etc. Then we will bring in a few in the last few days and hours, who incidentally will also be labelled pish before they've kicked a ball, it's the Motherwell way.

Must admit I thought you'd already started 😄

Other than gent not one defender from last season would be missed but yet we have retained mcginn and offered terms to odonnell and mugabi and with casey and blaney still under contract,it's almost certain that our defensive options for next season will be vastly made up of guys that kept 3 clean sheets all season, considering kettlewell has been moaning about our defending, especially of late,keeping most of them around for next season is madness.

Now it's confirmed we are wasting tens of thousands if not a 6 figure sum on Andy Halliday anyone at the club or Society who give us any pish about low budgets or shortfalls should be tar and feathered. It's actually funny that they are too feart to announce that they will still be paying Obika next season. McGinn is absolutely done, the idea that he might be here for another two years is mental. Kettlewell is actually thick enough to start with the exact same defence that only kept 3 clean sheets in 41 games. This season he got the good will from his initial KVV led turnaround. That's well and truly gone and if we keep the same shitty form with no Livingston there as a cushion we need to get shot of him at the first opportunity.

The defence has been a shambles and clearly at fault game in, game out. But, and this is the thing. Kelly has also managed to throw a fair few into his own net this season. Maybe partly feart or affected by the shitshow infront of him, but there is no way he can be absolved of blame this season. He really has been a shaddow of the keeper we had in his first year.

Take the Turnbull chat to the correct thread, and let's discuss the return of Campbell here.

I find the whole Kelly debate quite boring. Theres too many posters with entrenched positions digging in for the long haul rather than engaging with any meaningful debate. Kelly was a good keeper once. He hasnt been for some time. He doesnt come of his line which leaves us vulnerable at set pieces and his distribution is awful. He is far from the worst keeper we've ever had, but also far from the best. Looks like he is signing for Rangers and we can get his rather substantial wages off the wage bill. Might free up some money for better defenders to better protect the next incumbent.

To be fair it must be torture for them just now, season finished, transfer window not open no rumours about incoming players they can label as pish, so every chance for a whinge is taken.

On the subject of offering extensions or new contracts to existing players here’s my thoughts There’s a lot worse players than many of them and yes they have shortcomings but whoever we sign will be the same. Kettlewell knows them and I’m sure one of the reasons why he’s ok with giving them new deals is that throughout the season these guys stuck by him, didn’t down tools and managed to scrape through. Personally I believe that if the team hadn’t stuck together and believed in the manager then we would have been relegated. Next season’s going to be rough if our targets keep choosing our rivals over us leaving us with no one if we let these guys go. So in short the manager knows that - even if they’re only squad players - these guys will have confidence in him, help integrate the new signings without being pissed off if they’re not first pick, back him up if needed, bring some calmness and help keep the dressing room together if things get tough. If I was a manager I’d be looking for that from them.

Makes a change from being usurped by St Mirren.

I love the group stage of the league cup, genuinely excited to see where we’ll be playing. Always a good day out to some unfamiliar grounds. The football’s usually pretty terrible though, to be fair.

No chance, not a premiership player. He looked decent enough for Raith in the championship and should be left in the championship. 30 years old, never been good enough for the premiership, never will be good enough for it Besides the point but midfield is probably the position we least need to add to at the moment.

Butcher 100 percent wasn’t worth the contract offered cause we all know he is done at this level and he is so slow now the only thing he has to offer is a yellow card with the good chance of a suspension. Obika what’s going on with him? With the Ox signing he has been with us years and we still don’t know what we are getting lol it’s mental.

Don’t know what is worse watching cricket or that Hawaiian shirt

If every one of the out of contract players had accepted new terms, we could have ended up with exactly the same defence we completed the season with. Possibly except for Gent who many considered the best and most dynamic of the lot. Fortunately a couple have rejected terms as you say so that will not happen, But the concerning message is that the club, with or without SK's approval, were prepared to run 100% with a group of players that regularly underperformed as a unit. No offence, but would you have been comfortable starting the season with, Kelly, SOD, McGinn, Mugabi, Butcher, Casey, Gent (maybe) Blaney as first choices with Wilson, Ross, Oxborough as back ups? Our Board and Manager apparently were. We got away with it this season. Not so sure we would have next season given the senior players would all be a year older. At least now with Kelly and Butcher moving on there is some scope for change. But not as much scope as there should have been. All about opinions though.

Mugabi played at the heart of the defence in the away wins against Rangers and Hearts and the draw at Celtic Park. He was immense in all three games. There is no way we are going to sign two better players for that central role. People want to talk about errors but he made far fewer stupid errors this season than McGinn or SOD. If Bevis stays we are looking at needing a new player for the central position and someone better than Blaney for the left hand side. I think it's pretty clear now that Kettlewell has no intention of overhauling the team and is scared to sign players because he know's he not up to the task.

I'm saying that I find it staggering that anyone at the Club (or any fan) could justify every one of our defenders of last season being retained for the season ahead. With the possibility of the exact same defence next season as last. And I can only assume SK was on board with that possibility. I doubt whether any of them are fucking idiots though, which makes it even more baffling. But, hey, I'm only a fan that witnessed those defenders regularly under perform and a fan that believed change was essential. Particularly at Centre Back.

All valid. But my point....and I think Steelboys's.....is that our Manager decided every single one of our defence last season contributed enough to be retained. Yeah, we may debate the merits of each player and have different opinions. But that defence was simply not good enough so attempting to retain them en masse baffles me. And I say that as someone who rates Kettlewell.

I wouldn't say McGinn was done, been one of our most consistent performers. Still got a role to play. As for Halliday, you don't like him, we get it. I am not convinced either but let's see how next season pans out

Alternatively, don’t sign either.

If its a choice between Mugabi or Obiley as has been rumoured then Big Bevis gets my vote.

Not sure what your point is here. Surely nobody has been offered a new contract if SK doesnt rate them and wants to move them on? We are talking here about players that have been offered new contracts. Id agree with you that the CEO may not sifn off on a player if SK wanted them but their terms were unreasonable.....

Knew I should have delayed my season ticket renewal for another day - Mugabi offered a new deal 🤬.

And I wish Kelly all the best, not had greatest of seasons but been a good servant.

In a word No

Pass on my best wishes to her.

Good discussion for the ex-Well player thread.

If it's Blackburn, they can add on Gent and Vale on loan for next season.

We would lose to Airdrie, home or away, nothing surer.

I honestly don't see the point in giving squad players who aren't ever going to be first 11 a new contract. I'd prefer to have youngsters as a back up and go and recruit some decent players. Personally I'd have been more brutal and let the likes of S'OD, Mugabi and Ox go. Although easier said than done now is the time to recruit a very good goal keeper, central defenders and quality defensive midfielder.

Thing that always bothers me about the League Cup groups is whn we get beat or look shagged, people say 'ooooh it's early in the season, they're not ready yet' Do the lower division opposition not play to the same season and close season as us ?

F… two Kettlwells at the club no thanks

Fair do's they won't be a year older compared to season end. I stand corrected. Apologies. They will be a year older than they were when last season started, and so on throughout the season. Not so relevant regards youngsters but a factor to be considered with senior players as games mount up. Especially if we have two good cup runs......I live in hope. I agree with your views re Gent, SOD, Mugabi and Kelly. With only limited viewing admittedly, Wilson is the only youngster that I think is anywhere near first team ready. And he was farmed out on loan last season after the League Cup so not clear what plans they have for him. Happy he has another year.

If seeking to retain the majority of a defence that's only kept three clean sheets all season is his idea of improvement, we’re doomed.

and the managers say should be final in any club , if SK didnt want him hed be on his way.

I;m a day late I don't know if me eyes are decieving me we offered Bevis Mugabi a new deal? Seems like a lovely guy but hes a poor Cb and definetley not someone we need going forward

Good point. Most of us would agree that our defence was poor last season. That also involves the midfield but we'll leave that aside for the time being. SK also commented about this weakness so he knew about it. Presumably coaching was not successful in improving our rearguard. That being the case, I simply cannot comprehend why the defence is being left pretty much as is. The only reasonable explanation I can come up with is the one which Weeyin has proposed; that is some defenders, currently under contract will be shipped out. Quite simply I'm scratching my head.

Kettlewell is a fucking idiot. He's clearly not learned anything from this past season.

It’s all about opinions pal and I agree with your opinion.

Why are we mugs? We got one good season and one unbelievable season out of him then a big transfer fee. I'd take him back no bother. He's a confidence player and he likes it here. We would be mad not to do it if his wages are realistic. It's not like he's been shite at Killie he just hasn't played. 218 minutes over 13 sub appearances.

I don't think there's any doubting Turnbull's ability. I believe it's more to do with his laid back style of play and lethargic body language at times. It was clear from the beginning that he was never going to fit into a Postecoglu side with the mantra of "we never stop". I just don't think he displays the energy required to play at the top.

Unless Clark, Gunn or Gordon are kidnapped, Kelly will be dropped. I'm disappointed that Johnston didn't at least make the provisional squad, but it was obvious that Clarke would choose Ralston and McCrorie ahead of him. It's a shame about Turnbull, who's done nothing since joining Cardiff.

Twardzik.....Hollis....Michael Fraser.....Smith Yup Kelly better than those also