Kmcalpin

A pretty decent summing up. We're not able to compete with them physically for the most part, and certainly not in midfield or up front, but we can constrain their game and concentrate on our own playing decent football on the deck. Limit their crosses and set pieces and we'll do fine.

Pretty much agree with that although I thought he had a reasonable game last night. As with Seedorf, he had to escape the close attentions of 2 and on occasions 3 markers. He's more suited to open games but yes lets get the ball over the defence's heads for them to run onto.

You obviously haven't seen my attempts at poetry!

A very strange game but the critical thing is we won and against close rivals. I was very impressed by Kilmarnock and although I've seen teams play better when down to 10 men I really can't recall when, try as I might. As expected they were very well drilled, worked extremely hard off the ball and could break at pace. A feature of their play was the way in which any of our attackers down the wing was faced down by 2 defenders - something I was very envious of. We enjoyed plenty of possession but really do lack a true number 9 in the box. Someone to take chances and/or provide a focus for the providers. We also managed the game poorly in the later stages. We again looked frail and vulnerable down the wings and gave Killie acres of room and all the time they needed; so credit to our centre backs for holding firm but for one calamitous error by Hartley and perhaps Hylton. Its interesting that, despite all our pressure, Killie managed 3 efforts on target to our 2; Gillespie had a couple of saves to make whilst his counterpart had none. I thought our build up was ponderously slow and laboured. Even when Killie were on the attack we were unable to break at pace. By the time we were 40 yards from goal they were confronted by Alessio's schiltrons to repel us. Liam Polworth looks a decent creative player at Championship level or lower Premiership level but does struggle badly against the better sides. Some good points though in a Jekyll and Hyde performance. Gillespie looked safe in goal, we had 2 solid central defenders, Carroll looked good in attack (what a cross for "Andy" Cole's goal - Richard Gordon's words); Long had an impressive game and the wingers earned their corn but didn't have the benefit of a target for their work. We also looked patient when on the offensive, although a bit toothless. 3 points and back in 3rd place. Not a bad evening's work.

Virtually all tv footage is inconclusive. A few fans saying that Long got the first touch, but that is irrelevant as he was brought down by Bruce when clean through. At best a clumsy challenge at worst a cynical professional foul. He didn't really protest at all.

On the injury front there are rumours that Jake Carroll is touch and go and that Killie have two centre backs in the same category. As always though, we'll see when the two teams take to the field.

A lot of heat but also some light on this thread after yesterday's defeat. Some valid points made. I 100% get the budget argument - far more often than not the teams with the biggest budgets will prevail, but that doesn't mean to say smaller teams can't win now and again. Like Texanwellfan its the manner of defeat and loss of goals than get to me. We played well at Ibrox up to a point, but then blew it. We made the same basic errors that we've been making for weeks be it against Aberdeen or St Johnstone. Blakey is right in that we sat far too deep in the second half thereby inviting Rangers on to us. Despite sitting deep we left numerous spaces in and around our penalty box. Yodo and Pepper make good points about our second half capitulation. is that down to inexperience of a young team? Just how young are Hartley, Gillespie, Gallagher, and Tait for example? Others I get to a degree. Is it lack of fitness? On more than a few occasions this season we've seen players knackered in the second half. By my reckoning we've conceded 6 league goals out of 15 in the last 15 minutes of games. Anyway onwards and upwards.

Thats my fear too. They'll sit in and wait for us to make the predictable howler or two and just pick us off, as we're toothless up front in this type of game. I'm praying for a bit of inconsistency here and hope that we break our top 6 duck. This game and Saturday's against Livingston will give us a good barometer of how we're doing. I'm not looking for great football in this one as long as we don't make silly and avoidable errors and no conceding penalties or late goals. A bit of simple reliability and solidity would help our cause immeasurably.

Can't disagree with your view Alan. We blew it pure and simple. Our defence and midfield simply aren't good enough to try to see games out by defending deeply. We're shipping very avoidable goals in every game just now, and from the highlights our old defensive frailties were very much in evidence. Sitting too deep and defending very narrowly. We reaped what we sowed and can have no complaints at the result, if not the officiating. Many of us, including me, feared a real skelping and that didn't happen fortunately. Yet another penalty conceded!!

Reasonable formation and team, but a wee bit surprised that Scott has been dropped. We look very lightweight up front and I can't see us holding the ball up. That will put more pressure on the midfield and defence. Not saying that young James would completely transform things though.

Defensively a lot will dpend on whether or not Jake Carroll is fit. If he is then I'd stick with Grimshaw at right back as he's much faster than Tait. If not then Tait at left back again. Am I correct in thinking that Ilic is supposedly a left back?

A 3-5-2 formation has its merits. The front two seem quite lightweight though as do our wingers. We do need to toughen up as Aberdeen and Hearts have proved but that will need to be left until January. A back 3 might give Gillespie more protection although we don't want Rangers running riot down the flanks.

Pessimistic about this game due to our defensive frailties. The central midfield seems incapable of shielding the defence and our two full backs, of late, are weak links in our armour. In short we defend too deep and narrow. The possible return of Donnelly and Carroll may help. I'd love to be proved wrong.

He's an honest trier I'll give you that, but he's definitely shaded this year and even when Carroll has played Grimshaw has been our first choice right back, a point made originally by OTF. Despite my early reservations, Carroll has looked decent when he's played but neither he nor Grimshaw are good defenders. When they play, more often than not avoidable pressure is put on the central defenders and goalie. We do not have a decent right back nor back up left back.

With one more home game to go before the first round of fixtures is complete, we've now shipped more goals at home, 10, than any other team in the league and we're in 3rd place. Yes, we have deficiencies up front such as the lack of an out and out striker, but I think our main weakness lies in our defence. Sunday's game in Glasgow will also prove a severe but interesting test. Tellingly , all our goals against at home have been conceded to other top 6 sides. We've recorded clean sheets against bottom 6 opponents. Its not all down to the back 5 though. Defence does start further up the pitch. Our central midfield seems to lack confidence and sits too deep and perhaps doesn't put in enough effort off the ball in closing players down. Saturday's 3rd goal illlustrates this well. Aberdeen take a throw in deep inside our half with our midfield sitting very deep. No-one covers at the throw in and the Aberdeen lad can move inside unhindered and fire off a shot on target without a tackle. Our wingers don't protect the full backs. Our full backs sit far too deep and infield making it easy for opponents to get to the by line or fire in crosses. Whilst our centre defenders aren't world class they're not too bad, or at least Gallagher isn't. I'm not sure we have the right partner for him though. The above mentioned weaknesses makes life difficult for the centre defenders and Gillespie. They're left exposed to runners and crosses, avoidable corners and shots coming in. Now our defensive frailty could also be due in part to tactics i.e. getting caught on the break. Our defence does seems to be short of top 6 standard. Its concerning too that many of our defensive weaknesses have been apparent in games against bottonm 6 teams but fortunately their attacks haven't been good enough to punish us. Overall we've done well this season so far to reach 3rd place so thats the overall context of my post, but there is undoubtedly scope to improve our defence considerably.

We'll be in a good position to really judge our progress after the first round of fixtures is complete i.e. after the Kilmarnock game. The Livingston game will also be a useful barometer.

That will be more of a realistic test of our standing than yesterday's game Iain, given respective budgets. I've not seen a lot of Killie in the last couple of years but they give me the impression of being a hard working, organised, robust and solid side, but without much flair. Probably a very different team to us.

Part of our problem is lack of experience in the team. Young players like Campbell and Maguire tend to be inconsistent. For all his faults, we missed Hartley yesterday, when he went off, as there was no-one able and willing to take charge and organise the team. We had a midfield that sat too deep and looked intimidated by Aberdeen, 2 full backs that were posted missing for most of the game and two centre backs, whilst they played well as individuals, didn't play as a unit. I did feel sorry for Gillespie, Mugabe and Gallagher though as they had no protection from the centre midfield nor the full backs. Whatever else we need, we do need more character/bottle/leadership on the pitch.

Interestingly I didn't think that our defence was much worse today than it has been during our winning run. We made the same mistakes i.e. leaving the flanks exposed, letting opponents run at our central defence and fire off shots and gifting opposing strikers room and space in our box. The difference is that a better calibre of team than we've played of late punished us for those same mistakes.

When Aberdeen took the field I knew what kind of game it would be, as they're the biggest side physically we've met this season. We started brightly for the first few minutes culminating in the penalty (I've not seen it on replay yet). Scott's weak effort galvanised the Dons and shook us. Would we have won had he scored it? Difficult to say but I think not. Our problems were compounded when Hartley was forced off and Aberdeen took advantage of us being a man short to capitalise on a defensive error. Questions need to be asked about the delay in bringing Mugabe on. After that the Dons sat back in depth and comfortably prevented us from playing, preferring to hit us on the break which they did effectively. By contrast we looked totally devoid of ideas, unable to breach their midfield never mind defence. After the break they grew in confidence and scored 2 more from defensive errors and looked totally comfortable. We did mount some attacks in the latter stages but failed to trouble Lewis. If I recall rightly, we had 2 efforts on target all day including the failed penalty and one cleared off the line? Well before time up we looked a beaten and disheartened side. over the piece we deserved to lose and truth be told should have lost a few more goals. Aberdeen bullied and outmuscled us and we simply didn't compete. Our off the ball play was woeful and disorganised. By comparison, Aberdeen chased and harried all day and refused to give us time or space anywhere on the pitch, they didn't want to. We were devoid of any sort of plan, disorganised at the back, and in midfield, and toothless up front. A real off day when we were really naive. Still, Gallagher and Mugabe played reasonably well and Gillespie was blameless. We simply weren't solid enough and gifted Aberdeen 3 soft, but well taken, goals. That was always my fear going into this game. I didn't get overly enthusiastic about our winning streak and I'm not overly worried about today. We've now played 3 games against other top six sides at Fir Park and lost the lot. That tell us something. On that evidence, we're not a top 4 side, but not a bottom 4 side either. A long way to go but I suspect we'll finish somewhere between 5th and 8th. A bad day at the office today but I think it has showed, once again, that we badly need a right back, deputy left back (assuming Carroll is ok), a defensive midfielder (Sloth?) and an out and out striker in the Cosgrove mould. Little point, like today, in playing 2 wingers if they have no one to cross to.

I beg to differ. He's come back jaded before from international duty and it has affected his performances. Other teams "protect" their young players from burn out or whatever, so why shouldn't we? The fact that today's game was against Aberdeen is neither here nor there. I know you'll not agree so we should just agree to differ over this.

Absolutely. We should have done an Aaron Hickey/Hearts and withdrawn him from the international games. The fact that we didn't cost us. Hopefully we've learnt our lesson but I'm not convinced. We've taken one for the international squad.

Gallagher for me. Mugabe also had a decent game. They and Gillespie were let down badly by 2 off form full backs and a completely ineffective midfield.

This is exactly the kind of game we tend to blow. However we should take each game on its own. First and foremost we need to be solid with no mistakes. Anything over and above that is a bonus.

Absolutely. Since the early 1960s thats certainly true.