Goggles & Flippers Posted April 25, 2014 Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 Don't dispute that but the issue with Motherwell and probably every other football club in Scotland is, the fans who keep on going are pumped for every penny rather than trying to win new or lapsed business. It would be good if we could replicate what happens in most other European countries, where each area/district has strong civic pride and any emblems/colours are to be found throughout the local area. Thinking of Aalesund and Nancy in particular. Motherwell awash in C&A from basic things like railings, those banner things around the civic centre to even the planting in the middle of Airbles Road could be geared to reinforce local pride which in turn would influence affinity for Motherwell FC. Unfortunately we live within a council area with 4 legacy teams, said council has a predisposition to the unwashed and no doubt a few constituents would take mock outrage/offence that railings weren't red white and blue or green and white, not recognising this isn't the Glasgow. The club should be looking at re-engaging and introducing themselves to new people, simple things like player involvement (even though they'd probably spit the dummy) would go so far. Youth team and current squad members can't bury their heads in the sand or think, I suspect, because they are pro's its beneath them. We are not far from a very shaky peg financially, a lot on here see success on the pitch and assume it translates to success on the balance sheet, which is far from true. However it is a little off topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted April 25, 2014 Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 The club should be looking at re-engaging and introducing themselves to new people, simple things like player involvement (even though they'd probably spit the dummy) would go so far. Youth team and current squad members can't bury their heads in the sand or think, I suspect, because they are pro's its beneath them. I think that's quite an insult to the good work that has been done and to our players. maybe its not perfect but that paragraph implies nothing is done and our players are prima donas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goggles & Flippers Posted April 25, 2014 Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 Jesus .... an insult? Bit strong. Think what you like, its my opinion based on what I've witnessed. I don't dispute the good work done by the Community Trust but a lot of it is gilding the lily. As for the players, I think too many baulk at the idea of interacting with people, a cattle prod is often required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haggischomper Posted April 26, 2014 Report Share Posted April 26, 2014 No cattle prod required. I think our club and players have been great with fans and in the community Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderpig Posted April 26, 2014 Report Share Posted April 26, 2014 The simple truth re the well society that was evident right from tbe start is that Motherwell as a club do not have a big enough fan base to make generating the £1.5 million a viable prospect. And even though the club has been doing well in recents years we are not a big enough advertising prospect to attract significant commercial investment. The WS membership as it stands is probably as good as it will get, there may be a few more each season as induvidual financial circumstances change but i dont think we will hit the target. In the Herald article Leanne Dempster stated that the WS was currently about £1m short, thats another 40 commitments to the top £25k package or just over 3000 on the basic £350 deal with our average fan base its not going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted April 26, 2014 Report Share Posted April 26, 2014 For better or worse, many/most fans simply don't appreciate the financial position the club is in. Until they do membership won't increase significantly. That said some would never ever join for various reasons - "All I'm interested in is being entertained on a matchday/the club's finances are nothing to do with me etc". It will take scare tactics of a sort to change that position. God forbid, if the club was to announce that it may have to enter administration in a few weeks unless things improved, that would provide a fillip. Its not easy and I appreciate that some fans find money in short supply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted April 26, 2014 Report Share Posted April 26, 2014 No blame can be apportioned to fans. I love Motherwell to bits and invest significantly in watching us but there is no way I'm funding an interest free overdraft when the Board aren't very good with their sums. We don't have the fan base to produce in excess of £1 million every x years. The losses over the last couple of years given the success on the park doesn't cover the Board in glory. If we are in financial trouble then players like McFadden and McManus shouldn't be at the club. Suck it up and put your faith and money in a good youth system that's supplemented by savvy contract management. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted April 26, 2014 Report Share Posted April 26, 2014 No blame can be apportioned to fans. Who is blaming the fans? We are where we are. It seems to me that you're blaming our Directors. If we hadn't brought in players like McFadden and McManus we would still have incurred a significant loss. To have completely stemmed those losses would have resulted in a vastly poorer squad with a consequent loss of gate income and sponsorship money. In terms of investing in the youth system I agree - but this is a very long term solution. If we invested say an additional £400k per year in our youth set up this would take a good number of years to feed through to the first team. Any problems with our youth set up now and in the past couple of years stem from errors made 5/6/7/8/9 years ago. Running a football club requires a very fine balancing act and its not always easy to get it spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted April 26, 2014 Report Share Posted April 26, 2014 No blame can be apportioned to fans. I love Motherwell to bits and invest significantly in watching us but there is no way I'm funding an interest free overdraft when the Board aren't very good with their sums. We don't have the fan base to produce in excess of £1 million every x years. The losses over the last couple of years given the success on the park doesn't cover the Board in glory. If we are in financial trouble then players like McFadden and McManus shouldn't be at the club. Suck it up and put your faith and money in a good youth system that's supplemented by savvy contract management. I don't think anyone is blaming the fans, but is seems, some like yourself, will not even take the time to understand the basics of the society instead you knock it at every discussion, clouding the situation for anyone reading in. I've got no grievance with anyone who cannot or simply chooses not to join, but I get frustrated when people run the situation down influencing others. The society does not cover losses of £xmillion every x years, Motherwell Football Club manage the business to cover these unexpected losses and plan for break even or if additional income is expected speculate(very unlikely in Motherwells case) That is why after last years loss, this season budget is likely reduced in the region of £350-£500k Please also, do not forget the trading period, that the two consecutive losses were made in. WE voted not to corrupt the league and allow Sevco back into the top flight, that had huge financial repercussions , that were laid down clear for us to see, including the primary items in the budget that could not be changed. Followed by league restructuring, associated costs and prize money much reduced then split to effectively save clubs from meltdown (including us) It's all very well hammering the board from a keyboard, they've been very open and showed where losses were incurred, and then paid back the shortfalls the season after (not the society) You also slate the choice of signed players and yet clearly ignore the salary budget that has been slashed and considerable monies invested in the youth academy setup and excellent restructuring that brings in a huge amount of self funding for our benefit, and all that in the worst financial period of Scottish football for a long time. Its also quite amusing that you say you're not interested in funding the clubs interest free overdraft, but want the club better run? other than a benefactor (hows that worked out?) what would you, propose? the only other way I can see is charge more, for the club to generate that overdraft security and bank it, say £100-£150 on top of a season ticket, and the fans would get nothing for it, meanwhile the club would be open to Coakley, Romanov, Whytes, Greens etc or land speculators, The way we have it for a tenner a month anyone gets to help secure the club, and the majority shares are available for fans control when the fund increases. Perfectly acceptable for you to choose not to join and offer reasoning and I apologise if Ive mis-interpreted your understanding, but it sure reads like you think the society is there to fund the losses every year, that's not the case, all the societies funds still exist, even after two years of frustrating club business losses. PS. I know I sound like a happy clapper on the society front, far from it, Ive held my membership at steel, with funds sitting waiting for the next level. the AGM should be interesting next Friday, they keep yo-yo'ing between goals and frustratingly for me , don't publicly state answers to all these questions leaving hundreds of potential members assuming or in some cases spreading the mis-information. £1.5million sounds scary, but if only 1000 season ticket holders could buy in to the basic level, that takes funding ( or is it pledges if on DDebit?) close £1million, enough to secure the society model, a pretty decent security fund for club and allow steady growth. yes I know its the same old people being asked, but come on, there are some of these people who are effectively getting season tickets for £100per head, doesn't seem unreasonable to ask them to pledge a tenner a month. Don't get me wrong I know most also spend other money on the club, but guess my thinking is, after a ticket, the next pledge should be society then strips, sponsorships, raffles, lotto, or whatever else we put into the club. apologies for long post (again ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East_Stand_Al Posted April 26, 2014 Report Share Posted April 26, 2014 No blame can be apportioned to fans. I love Motherwell to bits and invest significantly in watching us but there is no way I'm funding an interest free overdraft when the Board aren't very good with their sums. We don't have the fan base to produce in excess of £1 million every x years. The losses over the last couple of years given the success on the park doesn't cover the Board in glory. If we are in financial trouble then players like McFadden and McManus shouldn't be at the club. Suck it up and put your faith and money in a good youth system that's supplemented by savvy contract management. Don't you think that this is the paradox the board faces though, in order to attempt to grow the fan base we need success on the field to keep the profile of the club high, in order to do so we need the best quality players we can afford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted April 26, 2014 Report Share Posted April 26, 2014 I don't think the Board "got their sums wrong" - when we were all up in arms about the new Rangers staying the the top flight, they presented a worst case scenario of the financials to show how it would impact the club. As Brazilian said, there were already sunk costs prior to the vote, so a loss that season was inevitable. Then the prize money was changed, and on top of that, no league sponsor has also robbed us of some funds. Then we had the bad luck of a Euro tie that probably ended up costing us some money, plus a dire Cup record this year that I doubt we could have predicted. Under these circumstances, we have cut our wage bill and still managed to put a competitive team on the park. As for the Society itself, I don't think anyone was expecting to raise 1.5 million from just the fans. The first push rasied close to half a million, and I'm sure subsequent drives could bump that up towards 50% or so of the target. Where it has failed is in attracting many business level investors. Without those, it was always going to be a big ask. So, for me, the big question is what can we do to get companies (or owners of those companies) to invest in the Society at higher levels. I don't think there is a simple answer, but it's something we really need to focus on in the coming months. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East_Stand_Al Posted April 26, 2014 Report Share Posted April 26, 2014 I don't think the Board "got their sums wrong" - when we were all up in arms about the new Rangers staying the the top flight, they presented a worst case scenario of the financials to show how it would impact the club. As Brazilian said, there were already sunk costs prior to the vote, so a loss that season was inevitable. Then the prize money was changed, and on top of that, no league sponsor has also robbed us of some funds. Then we had the bad luck of a Euro tie that probably ended up costing us some money, plus a dire Cup record this year that I doubt we could have predicted. Under these circumstances, we have cut our wage bill and still managed to put a competitive team on the park. As for the Society itself, I don't think anyone was expecting to raise 1.5 million from just the fans. The first push rasied close to half a million, and I'm sure subsequent drives could bump that up towards 50% or so of the target. Where it has failed is in attracting many business level investors. Without those, it was always going to be a big ask. So, for me, the big question is what can we do to get companies (or owners of those companies) to invest in the Society at higher levels. I don't think there is a simple answer, but it's something we really need to focus on in the coming months. There are people already tasked to do just that, a focus on the Business Club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted April 26, 2014 Report Share Posted April 26, 2014 I do understand how the society works and appreciate that every penny that has been invested sits there just now. The money is there to provide cash flow like an overdraft. However, I suspect that in 5/10/15 years time the fund will disappear when we come up against an unplanned expense. Do we then start again? I fully appreciate everyone time and investment in the society but there is no way I can see it working without having some local businessmen with financial clout. Regarding players wages, investing in McManus and McFadden was a risk and I'm not convinced we'll get any financial benefit from it - depends on the bonus structure in place for finishing 2nd/3rd/4th. Anyway, enough for today after that performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted April 27, 2014 Report Share Posted April 27, 2014 There are people already tasked to do just that, a focus on the Business Club. I know - but I have no idea how you can entice companies to invest in something like that in the current climate when they are laying off employees and focused on cutting costs. In prior years, we could have sold it as a more of a luxury where they would get some good corporate hospitality opportunities and some decet advertising. These days, they will expect a much higher return on their investment. Hopefully, when the economy picks up again, it will be an easier sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underboyleheating Posted April 29, 2014 Report Share Posted April 29, 2014 With Dempster gone, what now for the future of the Well Society? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Pepper Posted April 29, 2014 Report Share Posted April 29, 2014 With Dempster gone, what now for the future of the Well Society? My guess, would be that it will continue on as normal. Maybe best to what for an official statement though. One positive could be that the new chief executive could bring fresh ideas to the club and society and hopefully attract new members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted April 29, 2014 Report Share Posted April 29, 2014 With Dempster gone, what now for the future of the Well Society? Business as normal I'd guess. Leeann was not an office bearer of the organisation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 Am I correct in saying that it is the society AGM tonight? seem to be doing everything possible to keep it low key? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numpty Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 Am I correct in saying that it is the society AGM tonight? seem to be doing everything possible to keep it low key? Yep, it's tonight. I suspect they've probably been somewhat overtaken by other events this week to be fair, though I'm not sure there's a great deal you can do big up an AGM at the best of times. As long as everyone who should've been informed was informed, that's fine by me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 Wonder how long it will be before they finally offer some sort of teleconferencing for those that are too far away to attend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numpty Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 Wonder how long it will be before they finally offer some sort of teleconferencing for those that are too far away to attend. Mibbe something to ask the new general manager, have heard he has some kind of background in media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 Mibbe something to ask the new general manager, have heard he has some kind of background in media. I think I have asked pretty much everyone by now. The only answers I have ever received are "we don't have the infrastructure" or "we'll look into it". Given their reliance on distant fans for contributions, I would have thought it more of a priority to keep them involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 Surely just a Google hangouts call with a password would be good enough? Aye, anything like that. Skype, Google+, or any of the other free options out there. However, the initial feedback I received when the Well Society was just getting started was that there were no network connections available in rooms they were using for the meetings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East_Stand_Al Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 Volunteers are needed for a Bucket Collection for The Well Society before tomorrows game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan1992 Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 Volunteers are needed for a Bucket Collection for The Well Society before tomorrows game What is the purpose of the bucket collection? Doesnt sound too promising for the Well Society if we are having to resort to methods like this to fund it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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