VAR in Scottish Football

[weeyin]

On 10/30/2021 at 6:51 PM, weeyin said:

That's my feeling too. If Collum is in the video booth instead of on the pitch, he's going to have even more opportunity to give bad decisions against us.

 

Just call me Nostradamus.

(Or don't - because I already predicted what you are going to call me...)

[Ya Bezzer!]

13 hours ago, Mad Dog said:

Well this kind of backs up your opinion. VAR is doomed before it even starts.

Let's have a red card sweepstake.  Someone write 1 to 22 on a bit of paper and cut them out.

[Stuwell2]

Watching the Hibs game on Hibs tv, StJohnstone defender goes down after being barged in the back by a Hibs player, the commentator then says in a slightly disguised voice “the defender got himself between the striker and the ball then goes down when he feels the slightest touch - a lot of centre defenders now do that” - made me laugh, Ryan Portious ? 

[grizzlyg]

First VAR decision awards yellow card to Boyle for simulation...... shockeroonie!!

[numpty]

42 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

First VAR decision awards yellow card to Boyle for simulation...... shockeroonie!!

To be pedantic (not like me I know), the VAR referee didn't award it, he just didn't overturn the one that had already been shown...

[SteelmaninOZ]

MoVARwell!

[SteelmaninOZ]

 

[SteelmaninOZ]

Simples

 

[FirParkCornerExile]

I do think it will be interesting to see if there are more VAR interventions for referees that are universally considered to be honking. I can't wait to see Willie Collums first VAR game. Thank fuck Madden's away he'd have broke the technology in one game.

[Yorkyred]

Var pen given against Celtic and the correct decision.

[AllyMax]

First game involving one of the arse cheeks using VAR and they get 2 pens given against

Maybe we can all start making up for the decades of rarely getting penalties against them.

[Ya Bezzer!]

VAR was shocking today.  Aberdeen scored in 4 minutes and I think it took them longer than that to award the goal.

[Spiderpig]

I thought VAR would sort out this sort of thing, I guess the officials were on their break when this went down

 

It was  a feckin shambles today, decisions taking ages.

[Kmcalpin]

6 hours ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

VAR was shocking today.  Aberdeen scored in 4 minutes and I think it took them longer than that to award the goal.

I thought likewise. There seemed to be an awful lot of back and forward discussion taking place between the ref and the VAR supervisor/operator. I would have thought that the ref would have simply asked what happened and the voice at the other end would have replied hold on I'll check it frame by frame and then confirmed the facts. Is that too simple and straightforward?

The issue for me is what incidents are chosen to be reviewed. And as we saw, some can be ignored.

[weeyin]

6 hours ago, Spiderpig said:

It was  a feckin shambles today, decisions taking ages.

Certainly was. On the stream today the first Aberdeen goal looked comfortably onside in real time. They confirmed that in the replay within 10 seconds or so. I have no idea what took VAR so long as it was one of the easiest decisions they'll need to make.

[dennyc]

13 hours ago, weeyin said:

Certainly was. On the stream today the first Aberdeen goal looked comfortably onside in real time. They confirmed that in the replay within 10 seconds or so. I have no idea what took VAR so long as it was one of the easiest decisions they'll need to make.

According to explanations in response to the St Mirren game, not only do they look at the actual goal incident, they also look back to the entire build up to check all ok. How far back looking for infringements they go is unclear, but in that St Mirren game it was way back to when the attacking team got the ball. I would not have thought that depth of check is always required....as in that first goal yesterday... but I can understand why at the very beginnings of VAR use in Scotland if that is the general instruction then decisions will take time. Kick off after our goal also took ages so I guess they also ran that right back to check. God knows for instance what happens if a goal is scored from a corner that is wrongly awarded. I expect that look back instruction will be reduced. 

Might also depend on the teams involved as does all officiating in Scotland.

[GrahamH]

9 minutes ago, dennyc said:

According to explanations in response to the St Mirren game, not only do they look at the actual goal incident, they also look back to the entire build up to check all ok. How far back looking for infringements they go is unclear, but in that St Mirren game it was way back to when the attacking team got the ball. I would not have thought that depth of check is always required....as in that first goal yesterday... but I can understand why at the very beginnings of VAR use in Scotland if that is the general instruction then decisions will take time. Kick off after our goal also took ages so I guess they also ran that right back to check. God knows for instance what happens if a goal is scored from a corner that is wrongly awarded. I expect that look back instruction will be reduced. 

Might also depend on the teams involved as does all officiating in Scotland.

At a goal from a corner they would just go back to the corner being taken. Anything before that wouldn’t be looked at.

[dennyc]

28 minutes ago, GrahamH said:

At a goal from a corner they would just go back to the corner being taken. Anything before that wouldn’t be looked at.

That is the kind of situation that will evolve and common sense should prevail. Hopefully. But if they wind it back and confirm a corner/free kick leading to a goal was mistakenly given, should that not be overturned? The VAR refereee might already have had doubts as he watched the game in real time.  Or is that just tough luck?  It might all come down to how far individual VAR reviewers decide to go back. Same applies to "was the ball out of play?" I can just see Celtic and Rangers players badgering the referee about a corner from which they concede and VAR checking "just to be fair". Maybe I just don't trust our officials. 

  I agree that reviewing to last dead ball seems to make sense though. But is there any firm guideline? And we need to see consistency.

[weeyin]

They're only supposed to look at play during the "phase" that led up to the goal. In the case of Aberdeen's first goal that lasted about 10 seconds. The fact we didn't manage a tackle during it made it even easier to decide.

[Spiderpig]

For me yesterday was not a good start for VAR, the checks were taking  far too long, the 1st Goal was a straightforward no offside, should have been over in 30 seconds, as was the 2nd check which was done quickly. 

The worst was the incident right at the death involving Lamie, as clear a penalty as you will ever see, but no check made, no word to the ref to wait till a check had been made and we lose a potential  chance to get a point. Can you imagine the uproar there would be if that had involved either of  the ugly sisters, chasing the game to salvage a point. I get the impression though that the system Scotland got looks a bit pound shop level compared to the English premiership version, and that combined with the dubious standard of refereeing in Scotland does not fill me with confidence that it will work well.

[dennyc]

16 minutes ago, weeyin said:

They're only supposed to look at play during the "phase" that led up to the goal. In the case of Aberdeen's first goal that lasted about 10 seconds. The fact we didn't manage a tackle during it made it even easier to decide.

I guess the VAR official was finishing off his Bovril then. Before he had a wee look. It seemed to take forever.

[GrahamH]

35 minutes ago, dennyc said:

That is the kind of situation that will evolve and common sense should prevail. Hopefully. But if they wind it back and confirm a corner/free kick leading to a goal was mistakenly given, should that not be overturned? The VAR refereee might already have had doubts as he watched the game in real time.  Or is that just tough luck?  It might all come down to how far individual VAR reviewers decide to go back. Same applies to "was the ball out of play?" I can just see Celtic and Rangers players badgering the referee about a corner from which they concede and VAR checking "just to be fair". Maybe I just don't trust our officials. 

  I agree that reviewing to last dead ball seems to make sense though. But is there any firm guideline? And we need to see consistency.

Common sense, lol. Since when did that ever come into the equation? There could be (and no doubt will be) goals scored from incorrectly awarded corners, free kicks and throw-ins but afaik there’s no mechanism to do anything about it.

[pretzel]

I thought I understood VAR as it's now been in operation for just over four years but apparently not. We had three potential penalty incidents on Saturday with Tierney, Lamie and a handball but nothing was even looked at, obviously prior to VAR the ref would make his decision and either award a pen or play on, so my question is do refs still take that approach and only use VAR if they feel a foul was committed? I was under the assumption that with players appealing then it makes the incident worth looking at as it can fall 'clear and obvious banner', furthermore you have Andrew Dallas and another assistant watching the feed of the game, I thought they had the ability to interject and tell the ref there is something to take a look at.

[Kmcalpin]

1 hour ago, pretzel said:

I thought I understood VAR as it's now been in operation for just over four years but apparently not. We had three potential penalty incidents on Saturday with Tierney, Lamie and a handball but nothing was even looked at, obviously prior to VAR the ref would make his decision and either award a pen or play on, so my question is do refs still take that approach and only use VAR if they feel a foul was committed? I was under the assumption that with players appealing then it makes the incident worth looking at as it can fall 'clear and obvious banner', furthermore you have Andrew Dallas and another assistant watching the feed of the game, I thought they had the ability to interject and tell the ref there is something to take a look at.

I'm with you; that's my understanding too.

Taking a very "generous" view of the officials, is it possible that the VAR camera angle was wrong and didn't pick up the incidents? Maybe once but 2 or 3 times??

[numpty]

39 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

Taking a very "generous" view of the officials, is it possible that the VAR camera angle was wrong and didn't pick up the incidents? Maybe once but 2 or 3 times??

With the (minimum) six cameras located where they are, there should be at least two cameras with a reasonable view of any incident, so it does seem unlikely. (If that's what has happened, though, we need to get our cameras sorted out pronto, if they can't do their one job.)