Stuart Kettlewell discussion thread

[Ya Bezzer!]

If, like me these days, you just go to home matches you'll have got 5 wins in 18 matches this season.  That's not good enough. Or if you like 75 quid a win on your season ticket! More if you are in the posh stand! 🤣

And 2 of those wins were against a team that have been hopeless all season and must have one of the lowest points tallies in the modern era. 

If you take them away you get 3 wins from 16.  Ain't great is it?

We've scored goals but our defensive record is absolutely appalling.

We've managed 3 clean sheets in the league all season.  1 at Fir Park and 2 away.  I mean even Livingston managed more than 50% more clean sheets than us (7).  That's got to be some kind of unwanted club record surely? 3 clean sheets in a season.....

I supported the manager through the tough period because I want to look at things more long term than a period within a season but there is definitely a lot of scope for improvement.

I'd keep Kettlewell at the helm but there are areas where we need to show considerable improvement next season.  

 

[grizzlyg]

5 hours ago, wellgirl said:

Do folks think Kettlewell got it right yesterday? Tactics. Team selection. Not overthinking😉 Was that THE game that he got almost everything right

I don't like the playing one striker tactics.  Bair would be better with a strike partner. He played Vale up top then decided to play him in deeper role

[FirParkCornerExile]

46 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

If, like me these days, you just go to home matches you'll have got 5 wins in 18 matches this season.  That's not good enough. Or if you like 75 quid a win on your season ticket! More if you are in the posh stand! 🤣

And 2 of those wins were against a team that have been hopeless all season and must have one of the lowest points tallies in the modern era. 

If you take them away you get 3 wins from 16.  Ain't great is it?

We've scored goals but our defensive record is absolutely appalling.

We've managed 3 clean sheets in the league all season.  1 at Fir Park and 2 away.  I mean even Livingston managed more than 50% more clean sheets than us (7).  That's got to be some kind of unwanted club record surely? 3 clean sheets in a season.....

I supported the manager through the tough period because I want to look at things more long term than a period within a season but there is definitely a lot of scope for improvement.

I'd keep Kettlewell at the helm but there are areas where we need to show considerable improvement next season.  

 

Completely agree, the current squad will occasionally raise their game but will invariably disappoint , particularly the defence and the Goalkeeper. The defence needs a complete revamp. Other than keeping McGinn, Gent  I'm not fussed about any of the rest. Halliday has shown bugger all that should tempt us to make his move permanent. Oli Shae needs moved out , ditto Barry McGuire. Id like to see Bair and Moses play up front next year. However if he secures Vale again I think Bair and Vale will be our front pairing. I sincerely hope we dont try and sign KVV if we lose Vale. I think Kettlewell has a big job ahead but frankly I wouldn't be looking to replace him. He deserves a chance to improve things but if we have another season like this and totally ineffective in the cups Id make the next season his last. 

[bobbybingo]

53 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

If, like me these days, you just go to home matches you'll have got 5 wins in 18 matches this season.  That's not good enough. Or if you like 75 quid a win on your season ticket! More if you are in the posh stand! 🤣

And 2 of those wins were against a team that have been hopeless all season and must have one of the lowest points tallies in the modern era. 

If you take them away you get 3 wins from 16.  Ain't great is it?

We've scored goals but our defensive record is absolutely appalling.

We've managed 3 clean sheets in the league all season.  1 at Fir Park and 2 away.  I mean even Livingston managed more than 50% more clean sheets than us (7).  That's got to be some kind of unwanted club record surely? 3 clean sheets in a season.....

I supported the manager through the tough period because I want to look at things more long term than a period within a season but there is definitely a lot of scope for improvement.

I'd keep Kettlewell at the helm but there are areas where we need to show considerable improvement next season.  

 

We've currently lost 53 goals, the same number we lost last season. In the last 10 years we've conceded fewer goals on only 2 occasions. If we manage to score 3 goals in the remaining games we'll match last season's total, which was the highest return for more than a decade. 

So the issue is neither the leakiest defence we've had nor a powderpuff attack. We've become harder to beat at exactly the same time we've found it harder to win. Doesn't necessarily make for great excitement, but it's not the worst we've ever suffered either.

 

[FirParkCornerExile]

9 minutes ago, bobbybingo said:

We've currently lost 53 goals, the same number we lost last season. In the last 10 years we've conceded fewer goals on only 2 occasions. If we manage to score 3 goals in the remaining games we'll match last season's total, which was the highest return for more than a decade. 

So the issue is neither the leakiest defence we've had nor a powderpuff attack. We've become harder to beat at exactly the same time we've found it harder to win. Doesn't necessarily make for great excitement, but it's not the worst we've ever suffered either.

 

You have a point but if we want to improve we need to look at being better defensively. The fact the number of goal we lose has been consistent doesnt make it good.

[bobbybingo]

4 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

You have a point but if we want to improve we need to look at being better defensively. The fact the number of goal we lose has been consistent doesnt make it good.

No, it doesn't. Our problem defensively this season has been losing a relatively small number of goals per game, but in almost every game. In previous years we had more clean sheets, but we took a fair few doings along the way too. 

Our goal difference is the best outside the top 4 and only 4 teams have lost fewer games. God knows what all those stats tell us, other than we were as close to having a pretty good season as we were a disastrous one.

[FirParkCornerExile]

9 minutes ago, bobbybingo said:

No, it doesn't. Our problem defensively this season has been losing a relatively small number of goals per game, but in almost every game. In previous years we had more clean sheets, but we took a fair few doings along the way too. 

Our goal difference is the best outside the top 4 and only 4 teams have lost fewer games. God knows what all those stats tell us, other than we were as close to having a pretty good season as we were a disastrous one.

"Our problem defensively this season has been losing a relatively small number of goals per game, but in almost every game" ... so does that not suggest we need to concede less goals thus getting more points from games that we narrowly lost or drew. I think it does. Sure you can argue if we score more the net improvement could be the same. However I think that's a seriously harder ask than cutting out some of the comedy gold goals we gave away. 

[bobbybingo]

3 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

"Our problem defensively this season has been losing a relatively small number of goals per game, but in almost every game" ... so does that not suggest we need to concede less goals thus getting more points from games that we narrowly lost or drew. I think it does. Sure you can argue if we score more the net improvement could be the same. However I think that's a seriously harder ask than cutting out some of the comedy gold goals we gave away. 

Yeah, it does suggest that. Then again, Dundee have lost more goals than us and scored fewer, yet they're in the top 6, so it's not quite that simple.

[FirParkCornerExile]

6 minutes ago, bobbybingo said:

Yeah, it does suggest that. Then again, Dundee have lost more goals than us and scored fewer, yet they're in the top 6, so it's not quite that simple.

Fair point but I still believe there is a lot of room for improvement in the defence. Some of our defending this year has been brutal and teams didn't need to work hard to get goals off us. The amout of goals we lost from corners and set pieces was frankly laughable at times. Of course others are free to feel differently just how I see it.

[bobbybingo]

12 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

Fair point but I still believe there is a lot of room for improvement in the defence. Some of our defending this year has been brutal and teams didn't need to work hard to get goals off us. The amout of goals we lost from corners and set pieces was frankly laughable at times. Of course others are free to feel differently just how I see it.

Yeah, we definitely do need to improve defensively because as you said, that should be easier to achieve than scoring more than we have.

[wellsince75]

10 hours ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

Fair point but I still believe there is a lot of room for improvement in the defence. Some of our defending this year has been brutal and teams didn't need to work hard to get goals off us. The amout of goals we lost from corners and set pieces was frankly laughable at times. Of course others are free to feel differently just how I see it.

Agree with you @bobbybingo there's lots of room for defensive improvements.

Not only to replace individual defenders , I'd add midfield is a big part of the problem. The amount of teams who simply cut through our midfield isn't good enough, coupled with the inability to prevent and win the balll coming into our box. 

[Ya Bezzer!]

13 hours ago, bobbybingo said:

We've currently lost 53 goals, the same number we lost last season.

But we concede virtually every match and you get points from individual match results, not end of season totals. 

So far this season there have been 16 matches were we would have gained a point or points by keeping a clean sheet.

That's a massive number of points over a season.  In fact it's 31 points.  Probably enough that if we'd done that in half the instances we'd be in Europe next term.

If we don't tighten up at the back it will absolutely mean Bottom 6 again next season and it's quite clearly the main priority to be worked on during the summer.

 

 

[bobbybingo]

1 hour ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

But we concede virtually every match and you get points from individual match results, not end of season totals. 

So far this season there have been 16 matches were we would have gained a point or points by keeping a clean sheet.

That's a massive number of points over a season.  In fact it's 31 points.  Probably enough that if we'd done that in half the instances we'd be in Europe next term.

If we don't tighten up at the back it will absolutely mean Bottom 6 again next season and it's quite clearly the main priority to be worked on during the summer.

 

 

I'm certainly not arguing with the problems losing those goals have caused us, or the need to tighten up at the back, but as Dundee have shown, success isn't just down to the amount of goals you concede or score. 

As you said, conceding in virtually every match has been our Achilles heel this season, but clean sheets guarantee nothing either - County, St Johnstone and Livi have all managed several more than us.

Bottom line is, it's been a grey season for us. We could easily have won several more games, and just as easily have lost several more. I'm just glad we got enough bloody draws to keep us up.

 

 

[joewarkfanclub]

22 hours ago, wellfan said:

Because there's no point in offering critical analysis here after a positive result because it's generally met with bollocks like you've offered. 

I like a bit of critical analysis.

Win, lose or draw, there are always things we have done well, and things we could have done better with.

Highlighting both sides of a performance should be welcomed.

[wellfan]

4 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

I like a bit of critical analysis.

Win, lose or draw, there are always things we have done well, and things we could have done better with.

Highlighting both sides of a performance should be welcomed.

Yes, although I was referring to those who consistently refer to critical individuals who differ from the 'happy-clappy' views as 'doom-mongers'. It's tiresome.

[joewarkfanclub]

6 minutes ago, wellfan said:

Yes, although I was referring to those who consistently refer to critical individuals who differ from the 'happy-clappy' views as 'doom-mongers'. It's tiresome.

Happy to be the Ying to your Yang!

(Of course I would say that! 😉)

[bobbybingo]

14 minutes ago, wellfan said:

Yes, although I was referring to those who consistently refer to critical individuals who differ from the 'happy-clappy' views as 'doom-mongers'. It's tiresome.

In fairness, it tends to be the 'doom mongers' who refer to others as 'happy clappers'. Both terms get a bit tiresome.

[grumpy]

6 hours ago, wellfan said:

Yes, although I was referring to those who consistently refer to critical individuals who differ from the 'happy-clappy' views as 'doom-mongers'. It's tiresome.

 

5 hours ago, bobbybingo said:

In fairness, it tends to be the 'doom mongers' who refer to others as 'happy clappers'. Both terms get a bit tiresome.

Indeed, but a lot of these replies are to posts stating that so-in-so is shite, and the worst ever in a 'Well shirt. Over the course of this season, this accusation has been aimed at, Kelly, S O'D, Bevis, Spittal, Slattery, Paton and our entire strike force, to name but a few. And that doesn't start to cover comments on Kettlewell. As always, in football and in life, nothing is black and white and most of us (I suspect) realise that and, more importantly, accept these failings as part and parcel of being a 'Well fan. The constancy of those statements I, personally, find tiresome and occasionally irk me enough to comment.

I'm lucky enough to have seen the likes of Bobby Graham, Willie P, Tommy Coyne, Davie Cooper, to name but a few. I've also seen some total haddies. No one in this team is likely to feature in an all time 'Well XI, I suspect that none of them would feature in an all time worst either.

😀 To summise, chill people.

[wunderwell]

On 1/2/2024 at 7:47 PM, wellfan said:

Kettlewell will be sacked. But you lads can keep fighting for him. 

Ahem. Mr Wellfan.

I told you your pantwetting wouldn't come to fruition. Maybe sit up and pay attention.

"Sanctimonious pricks" as referred to by you which the mods should have clamped down on.

Takes one to know one.

Enjoy the 5-1 victory.

[Tamwell]

The last two games prove that he’s the man for the job. Two teams fighting for their lives and we absolutely pumped them. Big rebuild but in ketts I trust.

[wellsince75]

We will always have high/low points to a season. In terms of what he's been asked to do re league position I'd say he's delivered . To secure 7-9th with a lower budget is job done. 

Comes across as a good man manager, getting the most out of players.  Would really like to see an improvement in recruitment.   Some loanees have been very decent, could do landing some decent perm 1st team regulars. 

[wellfan]

9 hours ago, wunderwell said:

Ahem. Mr Wellfan.

I told you your pantwetting wouldn't come to fruition. Maybe sit up and pay attention.

"Sanctimonious pricks" as referred to by you which the mods should have clamped down on.

Takes one to know one.

Enjoy the 5-1 victory.

Congratulations on producing the most sanctimonious of all posts on this topic. I hope you've enjoyed the victory atop your massive ivory tower. I'm surprised you found the time to enjoy the result late last night while searching for a months-old post of mine written off the back of an appalling winless run on 2 January. Context is key, but petty irony is free.  

[Kmcalpin]

I've changed my view on him. During our horrendous run, I was all for parting ways, but he has turned things around and we'll now finish 9th at worst with the second lowest playing budget in the league. I think what did turn up the presure on him was the nature of our results. A more even distribution of results would not have seen the same fan reaction, as we saw during that shocking run.

Last summer and and in January he had a fair bit of deadwood to offload, which he did fairly successfully and I expect that to continue in the coming weeks.  So he'll have more financial leeway.  There will be a lot of departuress and arrivals  over the summer, and he'll have the chance to build his own squad and stamp his name on it. Lets hope he achieves a high success rate - all managers do have their transfer failures. I'm looking for him to strengthen the defence and defensive midfield, as a priority.

I hate the term "Punching above our weight" and I don't think its unrealistic to aim for a top 6 place next term and a good cup run. We should be setting that as an achievable target. 

[santheman]

Chat at the game was we've got 8 leaving and 8 coming in.

Time will tell.

[grizzlyg]

There will be folk that will never like SK and those that can see him do no wrong.

Me?.....I said before I would have punted him after Ross Co pumping in December but slowly and surely is starting to turn things round and learning from mistakes.   Overthinks at times and definitely needs to recruit well in the summer but I am prepared to stick with him.