Graene-mfc Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 I’m not doubting for a second that Stuart was subjected to an element abuse that may have crossed the line, but if it’s to the scale where he’s felt the only option was to tender his resignation then perhaps it would be prudent of the club to carry out an investigation and hold those responsible of said abuse to account. Instead they have verbatim pedalled the narrative of an outgoing manager, throwing your entire fan base under the bus with a poorly worded statement. In what other business would you not protect your own interests and those of your customers? Absolutely incredible, and has the potential to create a real divide between the club and the fans when we should be calling for unity. Interviews and snippets with Frail and SOD are adding fuel to the fire and allowing the media to have a field day with this when they ignore sectarian bile being spouted on a weekly basis and the stick that certain other managers have received recently. Personal abuse of any kind is completely unacceptable, unfortunately it’s rife in the world of football and every club has its element of unsavoury fans, the club has fuelled this narrative and I’m at a loss to see what they are trying to gain from it? Hardly an enticing job for a potential new manager when it’s plastered all over the news that the fans are abusive and hounded the manager out, also not the best message to send out when you will be begging said fans to renew season tickets in a few months time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 5 minutes ago, Graene-mfc said: also not the best message to send out when you will be begging said fans to renew season tickets in a few months time. I'm sure if the club continues their PR disaster and further alienates the fanbase, Caldwell will be getting a fair few emails from longstanding season ticket holders explaining why they are no longer renewing. Perhaps then he will conveniently remember who funds his and the players' salaries. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star sail Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 34 minutes ago, Pepper said: None of this is new though. You'd be forgiven for thinking we were the first fans in history to give their manager stick. Just so we are clear, and it goes without saying, any fan who was personally abusing Kettlewell is an arsehole. Ii don't get the double standards comment, these are not the same things. We are no better and no worse as a fan group. I don't think that justifies the behaviours. What has brought this debate about is that a manager has called us on it. It opens up a very interesting debate. What interests me most is that I am clearly in a significant minority that believes SK has good cause for complaint. Every football manager in the country probably has good cause for complaint. Regarding the double standards, I am very clumsily referencing the comment about SOD because he is obviously considered fair game, whilst by comparison the Motherwell support collectively sees itself as beyond reproach or criticism. The context is different but I believe the sentiment to be the same Judging by the mood, I have been losing the argument generally on the forum over these last few days. That of itself is very instructive and makes the discussion really interesting and worthwhile for me. It is always interesting to discover that your views are not representative of a collective you previously believed to align with on some level . Hopefully the double standards comment is slightly clearer (clear as mud possibly). It is all good discussion for as long as it does not become personal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
well_said Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 7 minutes ago, wellgirl said: I don't think that matters. Just because other managers had more abuse doesn't make it OK that this has happened. The issue is with the people dishing it out in my view. Not the folk on the receiving end Merely saying that it has gone on for years , in Tommy McLean's case I remember demonstrations after matches . However stuart kettlewell must be a poor wee soul with a very thin skin who never has taken responsibility but is happy to take the plaudits when they are going . But not to worry his media pals will ensure he will have a job soon , the same pals who are kicking our club all over the shop without any facts . I prefer to listen to Stephen craigan take on our clubs performances this season. The fact that we are in fifth place atm is a consequence of the poorest Scottish football has been in my time watching football . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepper Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 2 minutes ago, star sail said: We are no better and no worse as a fan group. I don't think that justifies the behaviours. What has brought this debate about is that a manager has called us on it. It opens up a very interesting debate. What interests me most is that I am clearly in a significant minority that believes SK has good cause for complaint. Every football manager in the country probably has good cause for complaint. Regarding the double standards, I am very clumsily referencing the comment about SOD because he is obviously considered fair game, whilst by comparison the Motherwell support collectively sees itself as beyond reproach or criticism. The context is different but I believe the sentiment to be the same Judging by the mood, I have been loosing the argument generally on the forum over these last few days. That of itself is very instructive and makes the discussion really interesting and worthwhile for me. It is always interesting to discover that your views are not representative of a collective you previously believed to align with on some level . Hopefully the double standards comment is slightly clearer (clear as mud possibly). It is all good discussion for as long as it does not become personal. I agree with the sentiment of your posts, even if not all of the points you make, Apologies if I have played the man and not the ball in an earlier reply. There is definitely a discussion to be had regarding what is considered to be an acceptable level of abuse in football, not only abuse directed at managers and players from fans, but from managers and players towards officials, and that extends across all levels of the game. In all honesty, I'm a bit bewildered by the whole sorry episode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 We should definitely keep this thread open to see how Kettlewell reacts in his next job once he's found out by the fans and they start to put the pressure on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star sail Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 2 minutes ago, Pepper said: I agree with the sentiment of your posts, even if not all of the points you make, Apologies if I have played the man and not the ball in an earlier reply. There is definitely a discussion to be had regarding what is considered to be an acceptable level of abuse in football, not only abuse directed at managers and players from fans, but from managers and players towards officials, and that extends across all levels of the game. In all honesty, I'm a bit bewildered by the whole sorry episode. No need to apologise and regarding your last comment, I have been really surprised by how much this story has got to me over the last 24 hours when generally these days I am very philosophical about the football. Bewildered sums it up nicely. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star sail Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 7 minutes ago, wellfan said: We should definitely keep this thread open to see how Kettlewell reacts in his next job once he's found out by the fans and they start to put the pressure on him. Nnnnooooooo!! I think it would be difficult to live through all of this again. Anyway we will be busy putting the pressure on our own new man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 1 minute ago, star sail said: Anyway we will be busy putting the pressure on our own new man. Which is exactly what all fanbases across the world do when performances are shite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 3 hours ago, Richie said: https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stuart-kettlewell-third-motherwell-boss-34569942 Whilst there's a lot of sense in what he says, I think it was inadvisable to say this just now. Maybe just adding fuel to the fire. We need to learn lessons and move on now. The club and Society have their work cut out to mend a few bridges. We need a united front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santheman Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 Last post on this. I'm fuming that Kettlewell didn't have the balls to go with some dignity although I can understand why he did what he did. I'm absolutely fuming that a few arseholes who think they can shout whatever they like have put us in this position. I'm also fuming at the club and the Well Society for putting out statements that effectively tar us all with the same brush as the arseholes above and given the press a field day. I'm actually beginning to question the whole set up of the club as we look like Amateur night at the Palladium. Seriously considering just walking away after 60 years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfc Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 10 minutes ago, wellfan said: We should definitely keep this thread open to see how Kettlewell reacts in his next job once he's found out by the fans and they start to put the pressure on him. I wonder if he will even want back into management,I'm sure he will but to leave one job citing abuse and knowing fine well it's going to happen again in a new job,his next move will be interesting.im sure hes had stick at times through his playing career and at county as manager and definitely took some during our bad run last season but yet we have to believe he's resigned cause of abuse the last two weekends in perth,something is definitely a miss with the whole affair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfc88 Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 46 minutes ago, Graene-mfc said: I’m not doubting for a second that Stuart was subjected to an element abuse that may have crossed the line, but if it’s to the scale where he’s felt the only option was to tender his resignation then perhaps it would be prudent of the club to carry out an investigation and hold those responsible of said abuse to account. Instead they have verbatim pedalled the narrative of an outgoing manager, throwing your entire fan base under the bus with a poorly worded statement. In what other business would you not protect your own interests and those of your customers? Absolutely incredible, and has the potential to create a real divide between the club and the fans when we should be calling for unity. Interviews and snippets with Frail and SOD are adding fuel to the fire and allowing the media to have a field day with this when they ignore sectarian bile being spouted on a weekly basis and the stick that certain other managers have received recently. Personal abuse of any kind is completely unacceptable, unfortunately it’s rife in the world of football and every club has its element of unsavoury fans, the club has fuelled this narrative and I’m at a loss to see what they are trying to gain from it? Hardly an enticing job for a potential new manager when it’s plastered all over the news that the fans are abusive and hounded the manager out, also not the best message to send out when you will be begging said fans to renew season tickets in a few months time. Absolutely spot on. Well put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mootherwell86 Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 SOD is ‘fair game’ because he’s been poor for 4 seasons. I can name half a dozen errors leading to goals just this season. If he wanted to keep his manager in a comfortable position then he should’ve performed on the pitch for him. Our full fanbase is not ‘fair game’ because quite clearly it was not the vast majority of fans that abused Stuart Kettlewell. There is no circumstance in which any current player or member of staff should be taking aim at fans. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Wispy Flossy Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 Caldwell has managed this appallingly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mootherwell86 Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 1 minute ago, wellgirl said: No he's not fair game. He's an easy target. There's a difference You don’t need to reply to every single post that you don’t agree with 👍🏼 2 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 10 minutes ago, Big Wispy Flossy said: Caldwell has managed this appallingly My last word on this topic before moving on. He certainly seems to have managed this episode poorly, although we don't know what took place behind closed doors. He's now made a few faux pas including approving the press statement and banning Under 14s from attending games alone. We'll cut him some slack though as he's reasonably new and still settling in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfc Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 So odonnell remembers robinson getting abuse at games,well according to one of the better poster over on p&b(crazylegsjoe) odonnell only ever played under robinson behind closed doors during covid,if that's true then it's laughable yet shocking for a senior player to come out with rubbish like that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellsince75 Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 3 minutes ago, mfc said: So odonnell remembers robinson getting abuse at games,well according to one of the better poster over on p&b(crazylegsjoe) odonnell only ever played under robinson behind closed doors during covid,if that's true then it's laughable yet shocking for a senior player to come out with rubbish like that. My take on this was SOD was sent out to speak today by the club . He’s very well spoken and a decent ambassador - pretty sure the club sent him out with a message to back up the official MFC message . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfc Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 1 minute ago, wellsince75 said: My take on this was SOD was sent out to speak today by the club . He’s very well spoken and a decent ambassador - pretty sure the club sent him out with a message to back up the official MFC message . If it's true that odonnell only ever played under robinson when there was no crowd,then he's straight up lied about hearing abuse towards robinson.today should have been about damage limitation and not more drivel that's making the fans out to be monsters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuwell2 Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 42 minutes ago, Mootherwell86 said: There is no circumstance in which any current player or member of staff should be taking aim at fans. Theoretically speaking what if one of our players mate plays for an opposing team and their kid has cancer, a small minority of our fans are being abusive to him regarding this and after the game our player says publicly that it’s out of order and disgusting - is that still a no from you? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mootherwell86 Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 4 minutes ago, Stuwell2 said: Theoretically speaking what if one of our players mate plays for an opposing team and their kid has cancer, a small minority of our fans are being abusive to him regarding this and after the game our player says publicly that it’s out of order and disgusting - is that still a no from you? Jesus Fucking Christ. Congratulations, despite some tough competition, you’ve won fuckwit of the day 👍🏼 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunderwell Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 I went and had a little look at the Dundee forum. Mainly because at that club despite being below us I believe they are content with the manager and the style of play. I was fascinated with their take on Kettlewell - here are a few snippets "Kettlewell resigns. A shitebag and charlatan of the highest order. A Motherwell team on the slide, Celtic up next and the injury and potential impeding transfer of Lennon Miller and he's chucked it. Comes out blaming Well fans for the 'abuse' he's received. One of the west coast motley crew. Kenny McIntyre and co will peddle the 'harsh treatment' and 'they were 5th in the league' line until he gets his next gig returning to County or at Partick or such like" "Shame, I always looked forward to his meltdowns when we beat them. They'll probably get someone decent now" "Kenny McIntyre has a fu*king cheek if he claims harsh treatment for another manager. On Saturday he must have asked Billy Dodds at Pittodrie near into double figures if the fans were booing and starting to turn on Aberdeen. He was fu*king reveling in it and hoping Dodds would say the fans were turning on them" "Kettlewell was doing decently on paper but they've been utterly tragic to watch for the majority of his spell. They just sit off teams and don't put any pressure on and literally just hang on for a draw and hope for a bit of magic or inspiration. He's thrown players under the bus, he regularly throws the fans under the bus and generally does anything to ensure he comes out looking squeaky clean. A manager that cares more about his own image than developing the club he's at. Hope that's him done with management" It's not just our own fans that are saying what some of us are saying to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yabba's Turd Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 Wonder if any of those posters are looking for a transfer, they seem to know more than a few on here 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuwell2 Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 Just now, Mootherwell86 said: Jesus Fucking Christ. You’re the one saying staff shouldn’t take aim at fans no matter what they say. I personally believe that’s out of order so wanted to know if you meant it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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