Livingston v Motherwell 07/10/2023

[bobbybingo]

We've done well with goalkeepers and defenders on loan deals, but which club is going to send us a proven goalscorer? It's gonnae be unproven youngsters like Biereth or older guys who haven't been scoring. Either that, or we pay for someone in form, but we'd need to look so far down the leagues for someone it would be highly likely we were beyond their level.

[grizzlyg]

3 hours ago, David said:

That kind of system works because they're all using midfielders who, and I apologise if this seems negative, are really good at that kind of thing, coupled with players in the forward position that actually still scored goals.

There was mention of Dykes and how he is used for Scotland. Dykes scores goals. He's hit double figures in two seasons in the English Championship, and also in his lone season in the Scottish Premiership.

Comparisons with City don't hold up either, even if we use perspective for the obviously differing levels. Whenever Pep played with the midfielders coming into scoring positions, he used actual goal threats in the lone forward position. Be it Mahrez or Sterling. What he didn't use was a big lump who's only decent at passing and knockdowns.

It's also worth noting that even in those seasons where City employed that system, the guy who was playing the lone forward role actually scored a lot of their goals. Be it Mahrez, Sterling, Ferran Torres, or Gabriel Jesus.

I will say it again, if our tactics for this season are using a striker who doesn't score goals providing knockdowns for two midfielders who really aren't known for their goalscoring abilities, we're going to run into trouble.

Teams already know Bair poses virtually no threat in front of goal. So their defenders don't need to really worry about him getting the ball and causing damage. All they need to do is keep an eye on the midfielders coming forward and look for Bair playing his passes to them.

That kind of system works when the opposition has to deal with goalscoring midfielders coming in from deep, plus deal with a forward who may not be an out-and-out striker, but who is also dangerous in front of goal.

Whichever way we slice it, be it two up top, or one up front and asking the midfielders to chip in with goals, we need to employ a striker who actually scores some goals. It doesn't need to be Van Veen last season level. But they need to pose a threat and actually look like they could score goals.

I'm all for using a system where we don't rely on a single person hitting 15-20 goals a season because we rarely have a striker of that ability at our club, but there's a difference between asking the midfield to chip in and get more goals than they might usually get alongside a striker who can even hit between 9-11 or so, and asking the midfielders to basically supply the vast majority of our goals.

In previous seasons we've had Tony Watt, Devante Cole, and Van Veen provide between 9-12 goals in a season. That surely isn't unreasonable? Unless our budget is markedly lower than it was those seasons, why can't we bring in someone of that level again? Why are we saying all we can afford now is the equivalent of the guys we'd bring in late on to make up the numbers usually? 

In previous seasons guys like Obika, Shaw, and Wilkinson would be extra bodies to fill out the squad. They'd be players brought in to cover for the likes of Van Veen, Watt, Woolery etc. The young lad from Arsenal would have been a bonus, someone who can hopefully do a job for us. But we're all seemingly pinning our hopes on a kid who's played 15 senior games coming back from injury and being our main striker. 

And I know it really annoys people, but I'll say it again. In previous seasons someone like Bair wouldn't have even been under consideration. 

I'm trying to work out if our budget is dramatically reduced to the point where the squad filler of two seasons ago is now our first team players, or if our scouting and player identification just isn't at the level it used to be? It has to be one or the other.

And I also know that some people don't like it when I post a lot of words, so I'll end it there. 

I'm glad you summarised your post 🤪🤪🤪, only joking pal 

[ropy]

Are there teams that we could take Mugabi out the back 3 against?

Keep the busy midfield (albeit less support from the full backs) and get 2 up front.

Probably not, no width. 

[Spiderpig]

49 minutes ago, ropy said:

Are there teams that we could take Mugabi out the back 3 against?

Keep the busy midfield (albeit less support from the full backs) and get 2 up front.

Probably not, no width. 

Ok then, Play mugabi up front as a striker, has Stevie Hammell hacked your account?

[ropy]

15 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

Ok then, Play mugabi up front as a striker, has Stevie Hammell hacked your account?

I don’t believe that is the suggestion, it is a squad game, we don’t need to stick to the same 11 players.

 

[Spiderpig]

32 minutes ago, ropy said:

I don’t believe that is the suggestion, it is a squad game, we don’t need to stick to the same 11 players.

 

Fair point, but we do need to stick with the same 11 if those players are the best available to SK on the day. Our reduced squad and extensive Injury list don't afford us the luxury of squad rotation.

[joewarkfanclub]

1 hour ago, ropy said:

Are there teams that we could take Mugabi out the back 3 against?

Keep the busy midfield (albeit less support from the full backs) and get 2 up front.

Probably not, no width. 

Potentially when Butcher comes back. I think he and Casey could be strong enough to play 4 at the back.

But I dont think you could have SOD at left back. You would probably need the legs of Spencer and Gent to get up and down  and we dont really know if Gent is good enough yet.

Of course in that scenario you are also taking McGinn out the team and he has been one of our best players this season.

[texanwellfan]

Captain obvious speaking here but our current set has us playing some delightful football but with too few goals. So I would try Shaw up front for a few games. He seems to be the most mobile and looks to have some skill and positional awareness for a goal scorer. Let’s see what he can do when working with a fresh midfield. Yes, he’s missed a couple of chances but strikers at every level don’t convert every chance. 

[wellfan]

1 hour ago, texanwellfan said:

Captain obvious speaking here but our current set has us playing some delightful football but with too few goals. So I would try Shaw up front for a few games. He seems to be the most mobile and looks to have some skill and positional awareness for a goal scorer. Let’s see what he can do when working with a fresh midfield. Yes, he’s missed a couple of chances but strikers at every level don’t convert every chance. 

Agreed. But the happy clappers here will say that we can't drop Bair because our performances have been great with him as the big battering ram and that's all that matters. 

[joewarkfanclub]

36 minutes ago, wellfan said:

Agreed. But the happy clappers here will say that we can't drop Bair because our performances have been great with him as the big battering ram and that's all that matters. 

Im more than happy to give Shaw a run of games up front. I think there might be a decent player there, but he is short of match sharpness that can only be improved with gametime.

My argument against the criticism of Bair is that isnt balanced and ignores the good work that he does.

Anyway, its not the "happy clappers" you need to convince. Its the manager.

[bobbybingo]

1 hour ago, wellfan said:

Agreed. But the happy clappers here will say that we can't drop Bair because our performances have been great with him as the big battering ram and that's all that matters. 

I'd put myself in the realistic camp. We need to start scoring, so Shaw will have to be given a decent opportunity, but I don't see what he's done in recent years that would suggest he's gonnae produce many goals either. Out of our available options Wilkinson would be the likely candidate for that, statistically speaking, which just highlights our problem.

[Throughthelaces]

I think livi on Saturdays a good chance to get back to winning ways played 3 hard games last 3 and performed well. A point against Celtic I think we’d all be a lot more positive but not to be. I see no reason we can’t beat Livingston on Saturday. 

[steelboy]

I'd stick with Bair for this game as his style is probably more effective for the plastic than Shaw or Wilkinson. 

If we don't offer more of a goal threat in the next two games then we will require big changes for the return to Fir Park at the end of the month Vs County. 

[Kmcalpin]

7 minutes ago, steelboy said:

If we don't offer more of a goal threat in the next two games then we will require big changes for the return to Fir Park at the end of the month Vs County. 

Thats fair comment. With the best will in the world, opposing teams soon suss us out and we have to keep them on their toes. Saturday's game will be interesting in that a lot depends on who domiates. If its them they'll be happy to shell long balls all day long. If its us we can play through midfield. Certainly it'll test out Bair's skills as a target man.

[joewarkfanclub]

12 minutes ago, steelboy said:

I'd stick with Bair for this game as his style is probably more effective for the plastic than Shaw or Wilkinson. 

If we don't offer more of a goal threat in the next two games then we will require big changes for the return to Fir Park at the end of the month Vs County. 

Good post.

[joewarkfanclub]

1 hour ago, Throughthelaces said:

I think livi on Saturdays a good chance to get back to winning ways played 3 hard games last 3 and performed well. A point against Celtic I think we’d all be a lot more positive but not to be. I see no reason we can’t beat Livingston on Saturday. 

I think if we had beat St Mirren or even got a point, there wouldnt have been anywhere near the reaction we have seen. The performances against Rangers and Celtic would have been seen as encouraging, rather than reinforcing a negative narrative.

[dennyc]

32 minutes ago, steelboy said:

I'd stick with Bair for this game as his style is probably more effective for the plastic than Shaw or Wilkinson. 

If we don't offer more of a goal threat in the next two games then we will require big changes for the return to Fir Park at the end of the month Vs County. 

Agree 100%. With the ability in our midfield hopefully Bair can win enough ball to provide them with some decent chances. Sadly, on that pitch, Livi have shown that getting the ball forward quickly and long is pretty effective. Not pretty, but effective. Don't think I have ever seen a decent game of football break out on that surface.

[wellfan]

We've scored 7 goals across the first 7 league games - which is decent - but I don't see that return improving as long as we rely on a one-man battering ram and hope our midfielders continually chip in. The latter will tire soon enough and the only current replacement is Davor. Perhaps we need to start exploring other striking options soon, or do we wait until Livi shitfest their way to a 0-0 where we dominate with yet another good midfield performance?! 

[weeyin]

With all strikers fully fit I suspect Bair/Wilkinson is our biggest mismatch.  Either of those 2 paired up with Obika, Biereth or Shaw is likely to be more effective.

Of course, while we play one up top, it's a moot point.

[Jastons]

I would like to see Bair get in the box more. Often the ball is played out wide with no one in the box and ends up going backwards.

[SteelmaninOZ]

The gaffer says 

 

[joewarkfanclub]

Good to hear that Butcher, Obika and Biereth are not far away.

Will certainly increase our options going forward.

If we can cut out the odd mistake we are making at the back and be a little more clinical in front of goal we will be a hard team to beat.

[Chanzeypopz]

14 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Good to hear that Butcher, Obika and Biereth are not far away.

Will certainly increase our options going forward.

If we can cut out the odd mistake we are making at the back and be a little more clinical in front of goal we will be a hard team to beat.

Butcher was such an influential presense on the park and mika can be the difference between a win and a lose, Even if he just plays for the last 15 minutes. Both of them are a BIG boost to the team being fit, Would love to see both back playing soon 🙏

[SteelmaninOZ]

2 hours ago, Chanzeypopz said:

Butcher was such an influential presense on the park and mika can be the difference between a win and a lose, Even if he just plays for the last 15 minutes. Both of them are a BIG boost to the team being fit, Would love to see both back playing soon 🙏

Yes they both are and I would like to see them back soon 

[texanwellfan]

Form once I’m ok with the international break