bobbybingo Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 12 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said: Despite Killie having more strikers than us; and playing a game less than us since KVV signed; and KVV being more unfit than Vale, he's already started and played more minutes than him. What does that tell us? SK was reluctant to rotate the squad despite being in an intense run of games. On the bright side, Vale's already scored two more goals than Van Veen. He definitely needs to be given his chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirParkCornerExile Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 1 hour ago, gaz7 said: Well they didn't did they. They got ball forward quickly. And played on our inability to defend so fair play to them .if you think they passed us of park by getting ball down and passing round us I will disagree with you on that . They played the ball on the deck far more often than we did, unlike us they didn't continually resort to the hoof ball. Indeed for their second goal the ball never left the surface. I'm in no way suggesting Morton were a silky deck playing team but the played the ball on the surface more than we did. Every time SOD , Kelly, Mugabi, Miller, or Butcher got the ball you knew it was going skywards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfc Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 6 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said: They played the ball on the deck far more often than we did, unlike us they didn't continually resort to the hoof ball. Indeed for their second goal the ball never left the surface. I'm in no way suggesting Morton were a silky deck playing team but the played the ball on the surface more than we did. Every time SOD , Kelly, Miller, or Butcher got the ball you knew it was going skywards. I couldnt agree more,we all know the last thing you do is punt the ball all over the park when the wind is blowing all over the place so for paid professionals to continually do it last night is mind boggling,add in the fact that we were punting it to bair who was never going to get any joy against there two centre halves and it makes it even worse.it actually looked like our tactic last night was give the ball to kelly as much as possible so he could hoof it forward and his distribution is dire,we couldn't have played into mortons hands anymore than we did and paid the ultimate price of being out the cup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 1 hour ago, bobbybingo said: On the bright side, Vale's already scored two more goals than Van Veen. He definitely needs to be given his chance. Agreed Bobby, but my point is that he should have been given a bit more gametime in the past week. SK has been overly cautious. Had he brought on Vale earlier in the Ross County game and played him alongside Bair for a spell, with 2 up front that might just have masked his intentions for last night's debacle and given our dear friend Dougie more to think about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaz7 Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 45 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said: They played the ball on the deck far more often than we did, unlike us they didn't continually resort to the hoof ball. Indeed for their second goal the ball never left the surface. I'm in no way suggesting Morton were a silky deck playing team but the played the ball on the surface more than we did. Every time SOD , Kelly, Mugabi, Miller, or Butcher got the ball you knew it was going skywards. I dont think they did pal but that's football all about opinions. I actually watched game again today on Iplayer and we did have some nice 1 touch stuff but went nowhere with it. They weren't miles better but scored 1st and had bigger players than us who bullied us a bit and wanted it a wee bit more I felt. I'm same as you in totally raging with result and wondering where we go next but I know something we can't give up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbybingo Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 5 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said: Agreed Bobby, but my point is that he should have been given a bit more gametime in the past week. SK has been overly cautious. Had he brought on Vale earlier in the Ross County game and played him alongside Bair for a spell, with 2 up front that might just have masked his intentions for last night's debacle and given our dear friend Dougie more to think about. Agreed. What's done is done, but Kettlewell needs to be using Vale and the other guys going forward. I could understand why he was loathe to use subs when the bench was almost devoid of decent options, but it's looking stronger now, so let's see them getting a fair run out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 Dougie Imrie would have known we'd field a 4-2-3-1 line up or similar and known the personnel. He set out to suffocate Spittal and Paton, which they did successfully and thereby cut out Bair's supply on the deck. So we start firing high balls to him much to the delight of the Morton central defence. Now even we know he's no target man. We had no Plan B. So predictable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiddy Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 12 hours ago, Wellsince1976 said: I agree. He needs to be dropped. Bit I don`t think the manager will, as that would definately end any faint hopes he has of a Euro place. fuck pandering to his euro place, he didnt give a fuck for my scottish cup away days only kidding , but that shouldnt stop him from being dropped, anyway as iv said before i dont think the manager has the bawz to drop him , but we shall see,,,,,,, unless he gets a mysterious training ground injury that would solve the problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiddy Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 8 hours ago, grizzlyg said: I would take a draw just now if offered. We had been doing well before last night. Just need a reset but will be a tough game especially with Miovski up top and our shower of shite trying to mark him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 I agree that Kelly needs to be "rested" but what we don't know is what SK thinks about Oxborough. He's a known unknown. As it stands, the defence rightly has no confidence in their goalie and captain and he, rightly, has no confidence in them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 2 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said: I agree that Kelly needs to be "rested" but what we don't know is what SK thinks about Oxborough. He's a known unknown. As it stands, the defence rightly has no confidence in their goalie and captain and he, rightly, has no confidence in them. Not a complete unknown as he has played two cup games already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirParkCornerExile Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 1 hour ago, gaz7 said: I dont think they did pal but that's football all about opinions. I actually watched game again today on Iplayer and we did have some nice 1 touch stuff but went nowhere with it. They weren't miles better but scored 1st and had bigger players than us who bullied us a bit and wanted it a wee bit more I felt. I'm same as you in totally raging with result and wondering where we go next but I know something we can't give up. I actually thought Morton were worse than I was expecting which makes it worse, they didn't need to try that hard and they had us beat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 10 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said: I actually thought Morton were worse than I was expecting which makes it worse, they didn't need to try that hard and they had us beat. As hard as this is. We need to move on. I'm not having a go at you here but we never do things the easy way do we. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelmaninOZ Posted February 11 Author Report Share Posted February 11 Our goal in case you forgot we scored a goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellsince75 Posted February 11 Report Share Posted February 11 1 hour ago, SteelmaninOZ said: Our goal in case you forgot we scored a goal. Very decent goal. Good play by Devine and good finish by Vale. A few things spring to my mind as being obvious about the current team/set up. 1) Kelly - being rested is no bad thing. This happened to Maxwell back in the day and he benefited from it. 2) Centre Halves - we don't have 3 good centre halves - so don't always play 3. 3) Devine and Gent both look very good in the wingback area play them both please. 4) Play both Bair and Vale - BUT when you bring on Obika -one of them needs to come off. They are not a good front 3. We've got more than enough goals in us to progress but we need to move away from being a soft touch for any set plays/crosses. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbybingo Posted February 11 Report Share Posted February 11 12 hours ago, FirParkCornerExile said: I actually thought Morton were worse than I was expecting which makes it worse, they didn't need to try that hard and they had us beat. When you lose 2-1 to a team who had 1 shot on target.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted February 11 Report Share Posted February 11 26 minutes ago, wellsince75 said: A few things spring to my mind as being obvious about the current team/set up. 1) Kelly - being rested is no bad thing. This happened to Maxwell back in the day and he benefited from it. 2) Centre Halves - we don't have 3 good centre halves - so don't always play 3. 3) Devine and Gent both look very good in the wingback area play them both please. 4) Play both Bair and Vale - BUT when you bring on Obika -one of them needs to come off. They are not a good front 3. We've got more than enough goals in us to progress but we need to move away from being a soft touch for any set plays/crosses. A lot of sense in that. We need to toughen up the squad and add more physicality. We need a new goalie, preferably one who is 6-3+ and good in the air. Priority for a rebuild. Short term, give Oxborough the gloves. Central defence? Where do we start? Sadly, I think Butcher is finished at this level. O'Donnell and McGinn don't have the height to play there, although McGinn has been a steadying influence and should retain his place. Both can't play in the same central set up. Mugabi - good in the air but a bit of a bombscare. For me the jury is still out on Blaney and Casey. We need more height and dominance in the middle. A priority for any rebuild. Wing backs - short term, agreed. Midfield we need a hard physical type in there. In Mark McGhee speak "someone to stand on heads". Up front, yes I'd play both Bair and Vale, but please...keep their service on the deck. As my late dad used to say "Its possible to score when you don't have the ball, but its very rare". In any game, its highly unlikely that the opposition will willingly give you the ball; more often than not, you have to fight for possession. As we saw on Friday evening, its all very well having better players but you have to compete and win the ball first. If opponents choose to fire in high balls to your penalty box, you have to have the height and physicality at the back to nullify that. We just didn't. Paton marking Oakley at their first goal??? Win the ball first then feed your better players and let them strut their stuff. Morton would not have bullied teams in the top six or even Livingston the way they did with us. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted February 11 Report Share Posted February 11 58 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said: A lot of sense in that. We need to toughen up the squad and add more physicality. We need a new goalie, preferably one who is 6-3+ and good in the air. Priority for a rebuild. Short term, give Oxborough the gloves. Central defence? Where do we start? Sadly, I think Butcher is finished at this level. O'Donnell and McGinn don't have the height to play there, although McGinn has been a steadying influence and should retain his place. Both can't play in the same central set up. Mugabi - good in the air but a bit of a bombscare. For me the jury is still out on Blaney and Casey. We need more height and dominance in the middle. A priority for any rebuild. Wing backs - short term, agreed. Midfield we need a hard physical type in there. In Mark McGhee speak "someone to stand on heads". Up front, yes I'd play both Bair and Vale, but please...keep their service on the deck. As my late dad used to say "Its possible to score when you don't have the ball, but its very rare". In any game, its highly unlikely that the opposition will willingly give you the ball; more often than not, you have to fight for possession. As we saw on Friday evening, its all very well having better players but you have to compete and win the ball first. If opponents choose to fire in high balls to your penalty box, you have to have the height and physicality at the back to nullify that. We just didn't. Paton marking Oakley at their first goal??? Win the ball first then feed your better players and let them strut their stuff. Morton would not have bullied teams in the top six or even Livingston the way they did with us. SOD is six foot, he's got the height surely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted February 11 Report Share Posted February 11 16 hours ago, Kmcalpin said: Despite Killie having more strikers than us; and playing a game less than us since KVV signed; and KVV being more unfit than Vale, he's already started and played more minutes than him. What does that tell us? SK was reluctant to rotate the squad despite being in an intense run of games. The thing is though surely. Van Veen is experienced in the SPL and a more experienced footballer at this level given his age. Whether Kettlewell got it right or wrong hes surely had reasons for easing the new players in whereas I assume part of the reason Van veen is getting game time is to sharpen up his match fitness and because they are paying so much for him - there would be questions asked about leaving someone on his salary on the bench given all the fanfare around his signing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelman1991 Posted February 11 Report Share Posted February 11 32 minutes ago, wellgirl said: SOD is six foot, he's got the height surely? Sadly just not the ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted February 11 Report Share Posted February 11 1 hour ago, wellgirl said: SOD is six foot, he's got the height surely? He is indeed. However the problem was that he was trying to mark guys who were 6-2 or 6-3 and heavier on Friday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted February 11 Report Share Posted February 11 1 hour ago, wellgirl said: The thing is though surely. Van Veen is experienced in the SPL and a more experienced footballer at this level given his age. Whether Kettlewell got it right or wrong hes surely had reasons for easing the new players in whereas I assume part of the reason Van veen is getting game time is to sharpen up his match fitness and because they are paying so much for him - there would be questions asked about leaving someone on his salary on the bench given all the fanfare around his signing. Some truth in that. Of course SK had his reasons, but whether they were right or not is another matter. It would not have harmed us to have given Vale more game time against Killie and/or Ross County and either started him on Friday or brought him on earlier. As it was Imrie knew exactly how we'd set up and did a proper job on us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirParkCornerExile Posted February 11 Report Share Posted February 11 15 hours ago, wellgirl said: As hard as this is. We need to move on. I'm not having a go at you here but we never do things the easy way do we. I've had 46 years of moving on , it's water off a ducks back within a day. I'm as close to chucking as I've ever been. I am seriously bored watching this year on year whinge about being skint , year on year fuck ups in Cups, year on year having to rebuild from loan deals every 6 months. I seriously question what would I miss. It's OK when you are young there is an air of excitement about it all but as you get older and see the same script year on year the attraction diminishes, well thats how I feel, maybe some other who started watching us in the 1970s still get the excitement. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennyc Posted February 11 Report Share Posted February 11 26 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said: Some truth in that. Of course SK had his reasons, but whether they were right or not is another matter. It would not have harmed us to have given Vale more game time against Killie and/or Ross County and either started him on Friday or brought him on earlier. As it was Imrie knew exactly how we'd set up and did a proper job on us. Agree with this. Personally I think the last half hour v County was a missed opportunity. Then again, if SK had made numerous substitutions on the hour and County had fought back, he would have been slaughtered for throwing away three precious points. Also, as much as some fans have an OTT dislike of Imrie, perhaps he is turning out to be a very good Manager and an astute tactician. Credit where credit's due. He did us over. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennyc Posted February 11 Report Share Posted February 11 10 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said: I've had 46 years of moving on , it's water off a ducks back within a day. I'm as close to chucking as I've ever been. I am seriously bored watching this year on year whinge about being skint , year on year fuck ups in Cups, year on year having to rebuild from loan deals every 6 months. I seriously question what would I miss. It's OK when you are young there is an air of excitement about it all but as you get older and see the same script year on year the attraction diminishes, well thats how I feel, maybe some other who started watching us in the 1970s still get the excitement. Since 1966 for me and I know exactly how you feel. The issues within our Club run a lot deeper than whoever happens to be Manager. My main concern is I don't see anything encouraging me to believe things will improve any time soon. Any enjoyment I get is short term as the next disappointment/crisis is just around the corner. It is a chore to go to some games now and purchasing a Season Ticket fells more like a duty. But you might be right, it could be just an age thing😄. The only comfort I take is that fans of other Clubs are experiencing similar issues. Why should that be the case? Perhaps despite ever improving facilities, sport science etc. etc., due to financial constraints and poor governance of the game, the standard we are witnessing is falling season upon season and consideration for fans is a thing of the past. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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