Dundee v Motherwell 6/4/2024

[santheman]

19 minutes ago, wellfan said:

We could get a goalie who would consistently make the same mistakes as Kelly but be on half his wages, and that would be about right for our level. However, we've been paying a premium for an average product for a while now, and it's likely prevented us from being able to strengthen the squad elsewhere. He's also been undroppable because of his high wage and captaincy. He needs to move on or be moved on at the end of his contract because I don't see him accepting a pay cut.

Going on his performances this year I dont see many "bigger" teams desperate to sign him so he might end up having to take a pay cut regardless.

Whether that would be with us or another team is another question but probably best for him to move on to pastures new and try to rediscover his early form.

[wellsince75]

3 minutes ago, santheman said:

Going on his performances this year I dont see many "bigger" teams desperate to sign him so he might end up having to take a pay cut regardless.

Whether that would be with us or another team is another question but probably best for him to move on to pastures new and try to rediscover his early form.

Im not sure its about form.  It's more teams have sussed him out and attack the obvious weakness.. 

He's a very good shot stopper but poor with crosses, particularly in the 3-6 yard line.  

It's poor management that knowing our captain can't deal with crosses we've not added centre halves Feels like an age since we had likes Aldred, Hartley or Gallagher who all gave much better protection.

[santheman]

16 minutes ago, wellsince75 said:

Im not sure its about form.  It's more teams have sussed him out and attack the obvious weakness.. 

He's a very good shot stopper but poor with crosses, particularly in the 3-6 yard line.  

It's poor management that knowing our captain can't deal with crosses we've not added centre halves Feels like an age since we had likes Aldred, Hartley or Gallagher who all gave much better protection.

Very true but for all we know maybe he tried to sign another centre half in January but it was just that none were available, we'll probably never know.

My memory isn't as good as it was but I don't remember him being particularly shite at crosses in his first season with us but maybe he was?

[Benson]

Get gent signed up,fecking love him,

[joewarkfanclub]

3 hours ago, wellsince75 said:

Im not sure its about form.  It's more teams have sussed him out and attack the obvious weakness.. 

He's a very good shot stopper but poor with crosses, particularly in the 3-6 yard line.  

It's poor management that knowing our captain can't deal with crosses we've not added centre halves Feels like an age since we had likes Aldred, Hartley or Gallagher who all gave much better protection.

Partly why, despite all his faults, I think we need Bevis in there. He is the only commanding centre half we have. In the centre of a 3 when all he needs to do is head and kick it, he does just fine. Its when he is in the wider position or in a 2 and his positional sense is tested he tends to get caught out.

[smiddy]

4 hours ago, Benson said:

Get gent signed up,fecking love him,

vale is a hard grafting baller

[SteelmaninOZ]

8 hours ago, Benson said:

Get gent signed up,fecking love him,

Yes get him signed now! 

[weeyin]

Gent is under contract at Blackburn until June 2025. 

[texanwellfan]

3 hours ago, weeyin said:

Gent is under contract at Blackburn until June 2025. 

I’d be happy enough to see loan deal again for next season if that’s the only way to get him. 

[SteelmaninOZ]

2 minutes ago, texanwellfan said:

I’d be happy enough to see loan deal again for next season if that’s the only way to get him. 

Me tae 

[SteelmaninOZ]

Enjoy  

 

[wunderwell]

Got to laugh. People want the manager to quit at half time.

Beat Rangers at Ibrox, what a few weeks ago?

Eighth in the league, budget lowered, safe as houses soon.

God help us if were losing 1-0 at half time against Hibs on Saturday. Morons can't even wait until full time anymore.

Probably the same tadgers that get bored half way through a 10 second clip on Instagram.

[joewarkfanclub]

14 hours ago, wunderwell said:

Got to laugh. People want the manager to quit at half time.

Beat Rangers at Ibrox, what a few weeks ago?

Eighth in the league, budget lowered, safe as houses soon.

God help us if were losing 1-0 at half time against Hibs on Saturday. Morons can't even wait until full time anymore.

Probably the same tadgers that get bored half way through a 10 second clip on Instagram.

Its kind of a reflection of where society is now. 

Too many want instant gratification.

For all the positives of social media, this is the huge negative.

Football has always been an emotional game, but back in the day you just vented your frustration at the match or disected the performance  over a pint with your mates afterwards in the pub.

Now everyone has the ability to publish those thoughts immediately and thats not necessarily a good thing.

Not a big fan of posting during a game as Im usually too engrossed in it to be bothered with my phone.

It is good to debate things before and after though, particularly for those of us who dont live in the local area and dont meet any other Motherwell fans on a day to day basis.

[mfc]

I see dundee have posted nearly a £3 million loss for the past year and expect similar next year,clearly they have been overspending on player wages again as none of it is going on there pitch,that's one club that never seems to learn a lesson when it comes to finances.

[joewarkfanclub]

45 minutes ago, mfc said:

I see dundee have posted nearly a £3 million loss for the past year and expect similar next year,clearly they have been overspending on player wages again as none of it is going on there pitch,that's one club that never seems to learn a lesson when it comes to finances.

They also appear to owe £6.3m to shareholders in what I presume are "soft loans"........

I think its fair to say the investor model doesnt come without a price tag.

Devil is always in the detail.

[texanwellfan]

5 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Its kind of a reflection of where society is now. 

Too many want instant gratification.

For all the positives of social media, this is the huge negative.

Football has always been an emotional game, but back in the day you just vented your frustration at the match or disected the performance  over a pint with your mates afterwards in the pub.

Now everyone has the ability to publish those thoughts immediately and thats not necessarily a good thing.

Not a big fan of posting during a game as Im usually too engrossed in it to be bothered with my phone.

It is good to debate things before and after though, particularly for those of us who dont live in the local area and dont meet any other Motherwell fans on a day to day basis.

I usually have steelmen open and will comment during games. Since I’m sitting watching it by myself most times it’s as close as I get to being able to talk about moments in the game as they happen. 

[texanwellfan]

12 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

They also appear to owe £6.3m to shareholders in what I presume are "soft loans"........

I think its fair to say the investor model doesnt come without a price tag.

Devil is always in the detail.

So they are approx. 12 million in the hole?? Where do they think they are getting the money to make that up???

[joewarkfanclub]

39 minutes ago, texanwellfan said:

So they are approx. 12 million in the hole?? Where do they think they are getting the money to make that up???

It looks to be about £9.2m all in if correct.

Still a hefty sum.

Given United are also reported to be wracking up losses and are reportedly around £10m in debt to their "investor" I think folks need to re-assess why they think "fan ownership" is failing........

 

[Spiderpig]

2 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

It looks to be about £9.2m all in if correct.

Still a hefty sum.

Given United are also reported to be wracking up losses and are reportedly around £10m in debt to their "investor" I think folks need to re-assess why they think "fan ownership" is failing........

 

Fan ownership does work if the fanbase is big enough ie Hearts, have a look on their website site  at the amount they have raised so far over £16 million ffs.

Unfortunately given our support base we will never get remotely near that sort of cash, I also get the impression that it's on a much more professional basis than the WS, but that's something the WS can improve and get right.

[joewarkfanclub]

I dont think its failing either.

It could be better, and we could raise more money which would help.

But we still exist, we are still in the top league and are doing at least as well as some clubs who are spending way more than we are.

I get that all of that could change quickly and having extra investment on the right terms would be advantageous but the Well Society has served a purpose and with the right decision making can continue to do so going forward.

[joewarkfanclub]

11 hours ago, wellgirl said:

Absolutely. But I really do want outside investment. I think we need it. As much as I appreciate the job the well society have done I still think there hasn't been enough transparency over what's been done with the funds to date. I am sure it's been diverted to good causes. But where is the information? 

And I also see that the new board are doing good things. But... We have members of the board speaking out saying they don't want outside investment. I completely get that too

I looked at my emails today. I got one email when I joined in 2018 and then nothing till 2022.

I also absolutely appreciate that people do this in their own time for no money. 

If the well society don't want outside investment.. Then they need to look at raising a lot of money to inject into our club 

How do they do this? I need to be honest here. The they are doing better now after the length of time they've been going really isn't good enough

They've had people giving them money when they've had very little and if they really want to make a solid case for fan investment they really need to get a move on 

 

I agree that outside investment would be helpful. But it has to be on the right terms.

Some of the figures being quoted, if true, are just derisory.

£1.5m for controlling share of the club should be shown the door.

If we are honestly looking at that just sell Lennon Miller now and move on.

We make more money and still have control of the club.

Everyone on the Well Society Board will have their own views, but I dont think Ive heard any of them say they didnt want any investment under any circumstances.

I have heard some say that they wouldnt want investment that meant giving away control of the club. But given that the Society exists for that purpose I wouldnt expect any different. The new Society Board have only been in place a short time so, happy to be patient with them. However, they are now under a little bit of pressure to deliver the improvements required given the ongoing investment talks.

Re that investment, if we are talking £1.5m for 20% of the club with the Society retaining 51% then I think thats closer to where we should be valuing ourselves, albeit I think thats still a little on the low side.

Id be more relaxed about the % split on player trading if thats where the investors think they can make their money. But that part of the deal still requires us to be getting a % that improves our current position.

Im not worried about where we are right now, I actually feel that its quite exciting as we have a real opportunity to strengthen the club for the future.

We just need to ensure that we examine the details closely and make the right decisions.

[steelboy]

55 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

 

Re that investment, if we are talking £1.5m for 20% of the club with the Society retaining 51% then I think thats closer to where we should be valuing ourselves, albeit I think thats still a little on the low side.

 

Giving up transfer income would be crazy unless we are getting some kind of transformative investment on the playing side.

It would just be giving away an income stream for nothing in return. Apart from having some glamour due to be in the entertainment industry I don't understand why are meant to be impressed by this guy. He's never been involved in professional sport before nevermind football, has never lived in Scotland and doesn't seem to be that wealthy.

All that seems to have happened is that he's discovered a bunch of mugs who might give him millions of pounds worth of assets at a huge discount.

[stv]

13 hours ago, wellgirl said:

Absolutely. But I really do want outside investment. I think we need it. As much as I appreciate the job the well society have done I still think there hasn't been enough transparency over what's been done with the funds to date. I am sure it's been diverted to good causes. But where is the information? 

And I also see that the new board are doing good things. But... We have members of the board speaking out saying they don't want outside investment. I completely get that too

I looked at my emails today. I got one email when I joined in 2018 and then nothing till 2022.

I also absolutely appreciate that people do this in their own time for no money. 

If the well society don't want outside investment.. Then they need to look at raising a lot of money to inject into our club 

How do they do this? I need to be honest here. The they are doing better now after the length of time they've been going really isn't good enough

They've had people giving them money when they've had very little and if they really want to make a solid case for fan investment they really need to get a move on 

 

Give them a call and see if you could help òut in some way,  not with money but free time . If more people done that it would help a lot . Instead of leaving it to a few people to do the lot

[joewarkfanclub]

10 hours ago, steelboy said:

Giving up transfer income would be crazy unless we are getting some kind of transformative investment on the playing side.

It would just be giving away an income stream for nothing in return. 

I addressed that in my next paragraph which you cut.

Im not sure what your agenda is here, but no one Ive seen is saying we should roll over and get our tummy tickled. Far from it.

But you seem to have already decided that this guy cant be trusted and should be chased.

Do you have some knowledge or information that the rest of us dont?

[joewarkfanclub]

My view is that no one is in a position to make a decision on what way they would vote right now as none of us has any detail of what the deal is.

Once that is known, if as Steelboy claims, it doesnt value MFC appropriately AND doesnt provide us with a platform to increase our revenue streams, then I would be voting against.

If they want a controlling share of the club the offer, for me, would have to be "transformational" for us as a club to be entertained. I dont see these guys as having that sort of money, but lets wait and see.