That Old Chestnut - Do We Move Or Do We Stay

[SteelmaninOZ]

Rebuild the POD rebuild the Hunter if the new neighbours don’t like it then they can move Fir Park was well established before the new homes were built. 

[Kmcalpin]

6 minutes ago, SteelmaninOZ said:

Rebuild the POD rebuild the Hunter if the new neighbours don’t like it then they can move Fir Park was well established before the new homes were built. 

Thats a fair point. The existing structures have set a planning precedent in terms of land use and physical characeteristics such as height, parking etc. They've been there for years and thats half the battle. However be sure that the neighbours will scrutinise every comma and dot, and rightly so. The fact that the stadium has been there before many of the residents moved in won't stop opposition though.  

[Jonesy]

1 hour ago, SteelmaninOZ said:

Rebuild the POD rebuild the Hunter if the new neighbours don’t like it then they can move Fir Park was well established before the new homes were built. 

I don't think there's any new houses that would be affected by rebuilding either stand?

[Spiderpig]

1 hour ago, SteelmaninOZ said:

Rebuild the POD rebuild the Hunter if the new neighbours don’t like it then they can move Fir Park was well established before the new homes were built. 

Its irrelevant how long Fir Park has been there, the Cooper stand was meant to be a two tier structure until the residents of the houses behind it complained, so it was reduced in size.

So you can be certain that any proposed development will be scrutenised line by line and there will be objections.

[Onthefringes]

1 hour ago, Jonesy said:

 

I'm not dead against it, but as I mentioned in an earlier post getting the location right it key. Get that plot of land behind the college and almost nothing changes. Get stuck lumped band in the middle of it, near the Sport Centre, of away up the far end behind the BOC road to Cleland and it becomes an issue.

In terms of distance covered it wouldn't look like a massive change, that only comes in if you start to look at what else it entails. St Johnstone only moved 1.5km from Muirton Park but I wouldn't have classed McDairmid sitting on its tod stuck by the side of the dual carriageway on the outskirts of Perth as feeling part of the community. It's only now with new build houses and everything else that brings cropping up round about it that the town is starting to catch up to it but that's taken over 30 years.

The plans for Ravenscraig have shifted quite a bit since the original idea, understandably, since a fair bit of EU money was expected to help it along. It seems now it's heading towards being a largely industrial complex. There's long been talk of adding 2 train stations (one between Motherwell - Shieldmuir and one between Holytown - Wishaw) which might help and a football stadium appearing might encourage other things to crop up but that took a generation in Perth. 

Fair summation.

[grizzlyg]

11 hours ago, weeyin said:

If he had a pound for everyone who laughed at one of his jokes he need change for a pound.

🤣🤣🤣🤣

[FirParkCornerExile]

Good update from Kyrk Macmillan.

If I had free reign and limitless money to upgrade Fir Park,  I'd fill in the corners , remove the top tier of that South Stand Monstrosity, New Main Stand and new roof on the East Stand. The filled corners could compensate for the loss of the top tier of the South Stand 

[Spiderpig]

7 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

Good update from Kyrk Macmillan.

If I had free reign and limitless money to upgrade Fir Park,  I'd fill in the corners , remove the top tier of that South Stand Monstrosity, New Main Stand and new roof on the East Stand. The filled corners could compensate for the loss of the top tier of the South Stand 

Whats wrong with the McLean stand, thats probably the best of the 4 ?

[FirParkCornerExile]

22 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

Whats wrong with the McLean stand, thats probably the best of the 4 ?

For me Its an eyesore and completely out of sync with the rest of the ground. Same as Pittodrie's beach end. If we are going to develop the ground lets make it look like a decent venue.

[joewarkfanclub]

42 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

For me Its an eyesore and completely out of sync with the rest of the ground. Same as Pittodrie's beach end. If we are going to develop the ground lets make it look like a decent venue.

Problem is we dont have limitless money, so the McLean wont be going anywhere unless we move altogether. Far more pressing issues.

The McLean isnt without its problems, but I quite like the quirky nature of it. Gives the ground a distinctive look.

Also allows us to milk the ugly sisters without having to share your matchday experience with them! 😉

[FirParkCornerExile]

4 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Problem is we dont have limitless money, so the McLean wont be going anywhere unless we move altogether. Far more pressing issues.

The McLean isnt without its problems, but I quite like the quirky nature of it. Gives the ground a distinctive look.

Also allows us to milk the ugly sisters without having to share your matchday experience with them! 😉

Correct it wont change , just a pipe dream. I don't do quirky 😆I prefer symmetrical stadiums that don't look like they have a different style stand for each day of the week, like Fir Park and Pittodrie.

[Goggles & Flippers]

I'll throw my two cents into this debate as she who shall not be named ruined it the last time this surfaced. A year ago I wrote a presentation as I thought we had reached our Rubicon with respect to FP. It was written with Lennon's prospective transfer in mind as we were due to receive a second once in a generation fee for a player four years after the last one. With the success we've had this season we could be facing a high seven to low eight figure cumulative total this summer which only adds to our list of options.

I think it's worth pointing out that while the McLean adds to the quirk of FP, since it was completed the second tier has earned us approximately £10-12m in extra revenue over a single tier stand. I suspect that extra income has played a major part in our 40+ top tier status and often kept the wolf from the door. For example, St Mirren will never sell more than 2,000 seats to away support in their 8k stadium. We will sell 20k extra away seats than them over a season which is approximately £400k in extra revenue.

I should add, I'm very much a proponent of a new stadium and studied architecture at university, I’m just convinced in the modern game you need to have multiple ancillary income streams beyond hosting 25 or so games a season.

However I'll flag some of the issues I've seen brought up on this thread already:

• It's human nature to be resistant to change, I can't fault anyone for nostalgia being a factor for them. We can't ignore FP is limited in what we can do or achieve. If we strive to be the best we can be on the pitch that should extend to what surrounds the pitch.
• Training Facility - We were looking at one in Muirhouse, now there's talk of Watling Street. A building with changing, physio, conditioning, gym, rehab, dining room and kitchen and possibly an integrated grandstand. If moving to a new stadium the first thing to consider would be a campus where all facilities are centrally located. The main stand could incorporate all of these functions to avoid duplication with training pitches around the stadium footprint (think Man City). Essentially the cost of a satellite facility could be absorbed and spent on the stadium to give an enhanced experience.
• Design - When there's so much to admire off the park in recruitment, transfers, etc. why would anyone assume the decision makers would would drop the ball and not take heed and avoid the traits of all the poor stadiums constructed in the past 25 years. You'd think they'd look to Tynecastle as a very good basis for ideas. I think this fear is unfounded.
• Transport - Best not to use 2026 transport links to a pretty much empty site to what may evolve. Not many bus companies that wouldn't spot an opportunity and then not act on it.
• Income - Vast improvement on hospitality offering and revenues. Ability to hold all events PotY etc. in house, ramp up outside/midweek events. Look for business' that may want to be tenants, have facilities available for public 7am to 11pm such as cafe/restaurant/etc. and sweat the asset.
• Cost - Safe to say since covid base materials have jumped as has labour, what we may have faced years ago have increased at a rate of knots. However there are ways and means to address it. If we pursue a new stadium we would have a sizable down payment. We could easily sell the McLean twice over to the OF and that stand perfectly illustrates the precedent of maximising and exploiting the OF support.
• Look to grow home support from current 7k (still a bit mad to type that) to 9k and continue to allow away support a minimum of 5k (to maintain current away revenues) moves us into a 14k capacity stadium territory. If you assume every 1,000 away capacity we add we make at least £100k per season (1000 seat x three OF games x £33), expand that to 2,500 seats (17.5k stadium) and it's £250k per year extra over current revenues. Over 20 years that generates an extra £5m + inflation at the conservative end of the projections over and above what we earn now. Get top six in half those seasons, plus Hearts and Falkirk have shown this season could easily bring in excess of the McLean 4,800 capacity if it was possible.
• The cost, upheaval and disruption of demolishing the POD and it's replacement out of commission for at least one full season cannot be overlooked. That stand is our primary breadwinner and our revenues during the construction would face a 7-figure loss in addition to the build cost.

I appreciate a lot of the above is back of fag packet sums but I'm happy to address any omissions, errors or oversights if highlighted.

 

I have one idea that I think would have legs but it would need major central and local government involvement but I don't think there's anything in the pot.

 

Future Stadium - Presentation

[cambo97]

8 hours ago, Goggles & Flippers said:

 

• The cost, upheaval and disruption of demolishing the POD and it's replacement out of commission for at least one full season cannot be overlooked. That stand is our primary breadwinner and our revenues during the construction would face a 7-figure loss in addition to the build cost.

 

One thing that's missed in this is that we would need to build a decent standard of temporary changing facilities during the replacement. Apart from the cost there is limited areas for locating them.

[Kmcalpin]

9 hours ago, Goggles & Flippers said:

I'll throw my two cents into this debate....... 

Future Stadium - Presentation

Excellent, well thought out post Goggles and I know there is a lot more serious thinking more behind it. In short I agree with it. 

I can think of many points on which to elaborate but will concentrate on only 3. Much has been made of the unique character of Fir Park i.e. the 4 completely different stands. You touch on the need / benefit of having a larger stand to accommodate away fans. This is spot on. Whilst Falkirk and St Mirren have enjoyed healthy crowds, their very limited provision for away fans is costing them. This is especially true of Falkirk's stadium, but I know there are ownership issues there  So, as you point out its not just a question of overall capacity, but also of how that capacity is allocated in terms of a home/away split. 

The second issue is that of filling in the corners if we remain at Fir Park. As you rightly point out the footprint is very constrained. That would be easiest at the north east and south east corners. It would also be possible at the north west corner but would mean relocating the offices somewhere else. The south west corner, which constitutes by far the biggest gap is really problematic given the presence of residential properties adjacent to the boundary. I genuinely don't know how that could be satisfactorily addressed.  Now, although the 3 corners could be filled, in theory, there would be practical difficulties in terms of the difference in heights. This is most obvious in the south eastern corner, where the difference in height between the Hunter and MacLean Stands is extreme.

Finally, I agree 100% that any new facility has to be used 7 days a week to bring in additional off the field income. Current faciliies in the POD greatly limit the income that can be generated during week days. If this were to be in Ravenscraig, then that could be tied to wider community benefits.  As for the latter, its important to envisage what it will be like in the future not what it is there now.