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Airdrie game a derby? Been a while

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12 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

Let's be honest here, Airdrie won with two wonder strikes that probably every keeper in the league would not have saved, were they preventable yes all goals are but sometimes a team needs a bit of a boost and the 1st goal gave that to Airdrie.

Did they overrun us,  constantly get in behind us, force Kelly into save after save , no they didn't so let's get a bit of context here.

We had 2 maybe 3 really good chances to score, O'connor and Woolery  should have done better and really should have scored had either of those gone in we would have won the game.

That said the root of all our problems as it has been for several seasons now is midfield, and needs to be sorted ASAP that will take some pressure off the defence and hopefully provide  decent service to the strikers. Yes we should be beating lower division sides but shocks happen and last night was one of those occasions.

So a bad night at the office, hopefully we learn from it and move on.

That’s confirmed to me that there is little understanding in how our midfield are being asked to play.

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13 minutes ago, Onthefringes said:

That’s confirmed to me that there is little understanding in how our midfield are being asked to play.

Illuminate us then oh wise one......

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I think the major concern is the absolute lack of motivation by our players to play for the jersey going back about 3 seasons.

They play when they feel like it and generally show the passion for their trade of a slacker office temp at a photo copier.

This is something that goes back beyond Alexander's appointment and was probably what lost Robinson his job.

If you ask me there has been far too many dross journey men pass through the club over the past few seasons.  In our pursuit to find The Pele of Exeter we've stripped away our own aura and status as a club.  We're supposed to be a top level club yet we are sifting through the bins looking for a diamond someone threw out with the curry scrapings.   We've become a clearing house for the inept of character and the bereft of talent.  It still makes me angry that fucking Jacob Blyth sidled up here and got a contract from us.  Sometimes it seems like we will literally take anyone.

And as I pointed out yesterday our most experienced player has 39 appearances.  There is no one in that dressing room that really gives a damn about the club.  Everyone looks at everyone else to pick them up but there is nothing there and so they all flop.   We have a dressing room full of hopeless transients.  Next season half of them will be gone again.

When I first started coming to Motherwell games our results were just as shite as ever but the players had some technique in their locker, some fire in their bellies and some actual personality.  Not only do our current lot lack the technique, they are the very epitome of the modern day robot footballers.  They aren't passionate about what they do, they don't care if they win or not, they have no ambition, they seem to me like automaton mediocrities going through the motions.

If I played for Motherwell I'd get sent off after 3 minutes in every game.  I'm not expecting players to be fans and act mental.  Just show us you aren't bored to tears or daydream in the dressing room about the heady heights of being a solicitors cashier.  

Housewives in the Soviet Union had more joie de vivre than our players.

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13 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

I think the major concern is the absolute lack of motivation by our players to play for the jersey going back about 3 seasons.

They play when they feel like it and generally show the passion for their trade of a slacker office temp at a photo copier.

This is something that goes back beyond Alexander's appointment and was probably what lost Robinson his job.

If you ask me there has been far too many dross journey men pass through the club over the past few seasons.  In our pursuit to find The Pele of Exeter we've stripped away our own aura and status as a club.  We're supposed to be a top level club yet we are sifting through the bins looking for a diamond someone threw out with the curry scrapings.   We've become a clearing house for the inept of character and the bereft of talent.  It still makes me angry that fucking Jacob Blyth sidled up here and got a contract from us.  Sometimes it seems like we will literally take anyone.

And as I pointed out yesterday our most experienced player has 39 appearances.  There is no one in that dressing room that really gives a damn about the club.  Everyone looks at everyone else to pick them up but there is nothing there and so they all flop.   We have a dressing room full of hopeless transients.  Next season half of them will be gone again.

When I first started coming to Motherwell games our results were just as shite as ever but the players had some technique in their locker, some fire in their bellies and some actual personality.  Not only do our current lot lack the technique, they are the very epitome of the modern day robot footballers.  They aren't passionate about what they do, they don't care if they win or not, they have no ambition, they seem to me like automaton mediocrities going through the motions.

If I played for Motherwell I'd get sent off after 3 minutes in every game.  I'm not expecting players to be fans and act mental.  Just show us you aren't bored to tears or daydream in the dressing room about the heady heights of being a solicitors cashier.  

Housewives in the Soviet Union had more joie de vivre than our players.

Enjoyed reading that. A lot of truth unfortunately.

However in context the Billions being pumped into English football has done a lot of damage to Motherwell and most Scottish Teams. 

When Championship teams in England get 2+ times the money Our league winners get…..

That has meant we are fishing in bargain basement bin for players. And by nature that means we will go for players that have lost their way or for whatever reason have not been given the chance to shine. The upshot is every now and then we will get a Marvin Johnson or a Kipre, but we will also get our fair share of the Caspar Sloths and Jacob Blythe of this world. 

I am angry at last night but accept that GA is playing the team he has at his disposal as we are thin on the ground. Still quite a few players injured. Still quite a few players not match fit. Still quite a few players to come in to the squad. The reality is we need the injured players back, the unfit players fitter and signing of 4-5 1st team standard players. 

We will beat Annan on Sat and I expect QOS to get a least a draw v Airdrie. So we should still win the group. Of course we will be unseeded, but being seeded has hardly done us much favours in the past. As long as we avoid Rangers, Celtic and get a home draw we would have a chance of progression.  But a big step up in effort and quality required. 

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1 hour ago, underboyleheating said:

We currently look disjointed and don’t appear to be working as a coherent team. However, it’s early days and perhaps GA is using the cup as an experiment to find his best eleven for the season ahead. I hope this isn’t the case as the cup is one of the few opportunities we have to get silverware. If we don’t start playing like a side capable of holding our own against lower division opposition we will be meat and drink for the likes of ‘mini Motherwell’, St Mirren. I suspect there will be a few sleepless nights ahead for GA as he puzzles how to get our current squad ready for the season ahead. 

I certainly think it’s the time to try different things given these cup games come so early, he has however kept pretty much the same players in the three games.  Unfortunately at the moment that’s because when you take out the players that are not 100% match fit there is not a lot of choice. Mugabi, OHara, Donnelly, Grimshaw and three or so of the new signings either can’t start a game or play a full 90 minutes. The current squad as it stands is pretty weak and will certainly struggle in the league, I’m hoping we have at least four players ready to sign on the dotted line shortly.

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Several random things occur to me after last night. OTF is right - I don't think most of us are aware as to how individuals, units or indeed the entire team are being instructed to play.

The team does lack leadership on the pitch and thats something that has to be remedied asap. An Aldred or Hartley type player.

For all McGinley's faults last night, that was his first 90 minutes of the season. He was up against opponents who have played at least 3 X 90 minutes this seaons, so we need to cut him some slack.   Many of the players just don't look fully fit.

Understandably much of the focus of our angst has been on the defence and midfield but the front 3 must also be scrutinised. Apart from the fact that they don't look fit and are still getting to know one another, the combination has been wrong. Even allowing for the fact that we haven't yet seen Shields and Amaluzor play, I'd imagine our best front 3, if indeed t has to be a front 3, would be Van Veen, Shields, Amaluzor/Woolery. Tony Watt is not a winger nor is Steven Lawless. They are best suited to playing behind a front 2 or even 1.

 

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2 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

Tony Watt is not a winger.....

This to me is the key point. 

Watt was our most influentail player last year and was the one leading by example putting in a shift and at least trying to encourage others to do the same. 

We should be looking at our squad and playing in a way that gets the maximum out of what we have. Not shoe horning players into a preferred formation. 

Given our dearth of midfield creativity, surely playing Watt thru the middle where he can be more influential and bridge the gap between the midfield and strikers is the way to go?

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In the absence of anyone better / fitter being available Id go with this on Saturday. 4-2-3-1.....

Kelly

SOD  O'Connor Lamie Carroll

Maguire Donnelly

Woolery Watt Lawless

Van Veen 

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3 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

In the absence of anyone better / fitter being available Id go with this on Saturday. 4-2-3-1.....

Kelly

SOD  O'Connor Lamie Carroll

Maguire Donnelly

Woolery Watt ____ USELESS!!!! 

Van Veen 

Sorted that for you or maybe try HOPELESS instead. :lol:

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Among the obvious shortcomings in the squad, we continue to lack a real leader on the park. O’Donnell is never captain material in a million years and it’s hard to see who, if anyone in that team fits the bill.

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People are really over reacting here. Yes it was a bad result, but there is no way that starting line up will be our final squad by the start of the season. We almost have a totally new team and a few of them are not fit yet, to me it looks like GA is being careful with squad rotation and not wanting to risk injury. 
 

Also we need to factor in the current difficulty in bringing players in. All teams have the same issues across Europe so the idea of us picking up a Portuguese or French  midfielder is just not going to happen right now due to travel restrictions. 
 

Yes a bad result, but all this relegation chat and I even seem some sack the manager posts on Twitter! Calm Doon!
 

 

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As gutted as anyone about last night and canny believe we are getting dominated by league 1 teams.

It looks simple to sort imo and that is we need  2 midfielders one to link attack and midfield and 1 to link defense and attack ala turnbull and gorrin.  Hard part is finding them but our 3 last night and against queens park just stand in same position with no movement and i am not exaggerating here when I say none of them want the ball they just want to stay in their position and defend.

We were on half way line watching last night so a good view and a lot of time our defenders were on 18 yard line 3 midfielders all about 30 yards out in a line  and our strikers 10 to 20 yards inside airdries half, the gap was massive and meant if our strikers got a long ball up which they often did they had no one to lay it off to and airdrie defenders just kicked it away.  I dont know if its GA tactics or midfield arent good enough or a bit of both but its worrying and we will need to get lucky during games in league if we are going to do much with that midfield. A lot are saying that wont be midfield for start of league but it looks as if it well could be.

Id take rhys mccabe off them and liam brown back from queens park as although only 1 game v us they are better than any of our 3 and they both want and are comfortable on ball.

Maguire i feel has something as hes fit and mobile and competetive but he needs 2 ball players next to him so he just has to charge about and also why at 6ft1 is he out taking corners it infuriates me.

Robinsons midfield 3 was always set up and you could see what their role was and since GA came in I have not seen any game where i thought our midfield was in control as we won games at end last year through cole watt and roberts. Some of our performances were dire but as we scraped wins it covered shortcomings.

Maybe Donnely will make a big difference and ohara but the majority of games midfield is where the game is won and lost and those 2 are out more than in. 

a front 3 of KVV Woolery and Watt has potential and I notice someone said Roberts has been moaning at hearts so he would be good to get back and watt maybe play just off KVV.

We could go on and on but Ya Bezzer post about the players only here for a wee while and no really bothered is totally true but as always we will be there and hoping it improves and every now and again get a bit excited again its what being a Well fan is all about.

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Talk of sacking the manager just now is unfair but it will inevitably grow arms and legs if we have a poor start to the league season, rightly or wrongly. To be honest and I’ve said this since Robinson was here, our problems run far deeper than the man in the dugout, we need a complete overhaul of our scouting and recruitment for starters.

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2 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Illuminate us then oh wise one......

Look at the comments objectively rather than personal slate?

Could’ve quoted any of a few posts with regards our midfield.

A lot of the things he asks midfielders to do, fans will never see or understand,  there are those who do them to effect and tactically, they get the game.

Do I agree with that approach? Far from it, the balance isn’t there. 

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13 minutes ago, MJC_mkII said:

Talk of sacking the manager just now is unfair but it will inevitably grow arms and legs if we have a poor start to the league season, rightly or wrongly. To be honest and I’ve said this since Robinson was here, our problems run far deeper than the man in the dugout, we need a complete overhaul of our scouting and recruitment for starters.

Which they have done? 

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And.....................................We're back.  Same old ,same old. Are we going to win the league? No. Are we going to win a cup? If we get lucky! Will we get into top 6 ? If we get lucky!
Will we get relegated ? No.  Will it be the usual rollercoaster? Yes !!
Thank goodness I forgot my password last night as I was raging coming back from Airdrie 'The real Local Derby'
1. Is it me or did nobody on the park see that giving away a throw in was as good as a corner for Airdrie!!!!
2. Who in this world would play high balls to Lawless!!! Can't fault his effort but some 18 inches in height may have helped his cause.
3. We have a greyhound in Woolery but the number of times the trap went up and the hare was missing!!  O'Donnel preffering to stick to the plan and pass sideways or back!!
4. Nobody knows each other yet. Watt played some nice touches and dummies to someone not on his wavelength.
5. Tell you what, I'll cross this into the box which has two Motherwell players and seven Airdrie players!!
7.I said to my boy 'Watch this free kick' 'That's how to take them'
8. I'll be worried if things are the same come November but Airdrie are a settled team who know each other and play for each other and they know how to play the plastic pitch.
We need time to gel and get a regular starting 11 . Agree with all above statements about central defence and creative midfielder also make us hard to beat first.
Enjoy the ride and see you at the other side.
What happened to the 6th point in your post? My OCD will not allow me to sleep tonight if you do not edit in a 6th point.

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk

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1 hour ago, Kmcalpin said:

Tony Watt is not a winger nor is Steven Lawless. They are best suited to playing behind a front 2 or even 1.

 

Exactly this. And as a result of this 4-3-3 nonsense both these players are being asked to play out of position and perform tasks that are beyond them, basically because they do not possess the pace of true wide players. Both players run their legs off  but effort alone is not enough.  

Look at the difference when Lawless moved behind a front two against QOTS and we actually hade a shape with which every player looked comfortable. And yet last night it was back to the usual ......and can anyone explain why Alexander only made one substitution ?  Has he given up on this Cup? The players were poor last night, but their Manager did little to help them turn things round (unlike Saturday). If the likes of Donnelly and Carroll were being protected from the  risk  of playing on a plastic pitch why list them as subs?  SOD was understandably knackered after 60 minutes so why not give young Johnston a run out? Again why list him as sub if you are just going to ignore him.? Same applies to Amaluzor. Or is he not even fit enough for 20 minutes? And where the hell is O'Hara? So many questions I know, but obvious questions that many fans were asking.

We were poor against Queens Park, but scraped a win. We got out of jail against QOTS. Last night there was no hint of escaping with anything once Airdrie scored. We were handed a group which was ideal for pre season but gave us a fairly straight forward path to the knock out stages. And we may well have blown it.

So if Airdrie beat QOTS we need to win by two more goals than them to qualify as Group winners. Might happen but I cannot say I am convinced. Yes, we may bring in players before the window closes but we could well be out of one of the only two competitions we have a chance of winning. So for those who suggest this is only pre season and does not matter, you are talking nonsense. The Fans deserve better than we got last night, and not just from the players.

 

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2 hours ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

I think the major concern is the absolute lack of motivation by our players to play for the jersey going back about 3 seasons.

They play when they feel like it and generally show the passion for their trade of a slacker office temp at a photo copier.

This is something that goes back beyond Alexander's appointment and was probably what lost Robinson his job.

If you ask me there has been far too many dross journey men pass through the club over the past few seasons.  In our pursuit to find The Pele of Exeter we've stripped away our own aura and status as a club.  We're supposed to be a top level club yet we are sifting through the bins looking for a diamond someone threw out with the curry scrapings.   We've become a clearing house for the inept of character and the bereft of talent.  It still makes me angry that fucking Jacob Blyth sidled up here and got a contract from us.  Sometimes it seems like we will literally take anyone.

And as I pointed out yesterday our most experienced player has 39 appearances.  There is no one in that dressing room that really gives a damn about the club.  Everyone looks at everyone else to pick them up but there is nothing there and so they all flop.   We have a dressing room full of hopeless transients.  Next season half of them will be gone again.

When I first started coming to Motherwell games our results were just as shite as ever but the players had some technique in their locker, some fire in their bellies and some actual personality.  Not only do our current lot lack the technique, they are the very epitome of the modern day robot footballers.  They aren't passionate about what they do, they don't care if they win or not, they have no ambition, they seem to me like automaton mediocrities going through the motions.

If I played for Motherwell I'd get sent off after 3 minutes in every game.  I'm not expecting players to be fans and act mental.  Just show us you aren't bored to tears or daydream in the dressing room about the heady heights of being a solicitors cashier.  

Housewives in the Soviet Union had more joie de vivre than our players.

An entertaining read but some nicely written prose doesn't win football games.  

What's your actual pragmatic solution? It seems to be "buy better players and / or  ones who care about the club"? 

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2 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

This to me is the key point. 

Watt was our most influentail player last year and was the one leading by example putting in a shift and at least trying to encourage others to do the same. 

We should be looking at our squad and playing in a way that gets the maximum out of what we have. Not shoe horning players into a preferred formation. 

Given our dearth of midfield creativity, surely playing Watt thru the middle where he can be more influential and bridge the gap between the midfield and strikers is the way to go?

agree and im sure many others would back this.  Watt playing just behind the striker(s) is such an obvious role. 

If we  (the average fan) can this see this is an obvious gap and well worth a punt why can't the mgt team see it.

 

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I’m not sure where to start so I’m just going to be quiet and wait for a few games into the league before forming any opinions. 

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4 hours ago, Onthefringes said:


A lot of the things he asks midfielders to do, fans will never see or understand,  

For a midfield of Maguire, Cornelius and Crawford that statement is correct the fans never see any commitment,  positional sense, good hold up play, etc etc and we never understand why our midfield had been brutal for years.

So is GA asking them to do these things and they are either not doing it or are unable to do it in which case why does he persit with them.

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36 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

For a midfield of Maguire, Cornelius and Crawford that statement is correct the fans never see any commitment,  positional sense, good hold up play, etc etc and we never understand why our midfield had been brutal for years.

So is GA asking them to do these things and they are either not doing it or are unable to do it in which case why does he persit with them.

Definitely confirmation.

To state the fans never see any commitment is just false & should be dismissed.

For the avoidance of doubt, I’m far from happy with the midfield unit & how it’s performing.

Passing from the back with our limited players is folly given we’re regularly forced to go long which bypasses our midfield. Swamped in a midfield 3 against a usual 5 means you’re dizzy given the dog runs required all game.

Things like being in the right areas to block the opposition route of attack etc. It’s not always obvious, but expected to be bursting to get back into the shape. That’s a hard shift. That’s the positional sense they’re being asked to maintain. Perhaps against my better judgement, surely Alexander is more qualified to judge than the porridge dribbling on here?

That system stifles though? Holding midfielder protecting the back line,  pressing higher, box to box and going beyond would be a preference… That’s only in offensive transitions though - when we’ve lost the ball. Alexander wants the midfielders to rat (as Allan Campbell excelled) and I think he sees those attributes there. Not aesthetically pleasing, but, 

Whilst we feel they may be playing playing with reigns on… under closer scrutiny Allan Campbell didn’t last year - it actually suited him under Alexander and he ended up getting in more goalscoring positions. He wants strikers to make first contact on passes, and for midfield support to join in off second balls etc. That’s where it’s felt our midfield can really come alive.

Our forward line are so off the pace, the issues above become apparent.

Good hold up play? What’s required is a discipline to protect & not be profligate in possession - Donnelly offers more than the others asked to do the same. The creative force that can carry the ball forward is lacking. That’s on Alexander & his Head of Recruitment.

We still need to add midfielders as we’re light (particularly as a few don’t have great injury records in there), but like Barry Maguire in recent seasons, the challenge for the current kid is to ensure he is fighting hard for his spot. It’s never easy, but he’s a grafter. I’m certainly not convinced we’ll sign any ready made replacement or improvement.

Your closing point is nonsensical. Before you reply in kind, read what’s being said, not just look. There’s a world of difference.

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11 hours ago, 0Neils40yarder said:

Anyone that doesnt think that was embarrassing last night, probably has some form of heat stroke. Problems all over the pitch.

 

Central defence is alarmingly poor, both full backs were ponderous and indecisive. Up front we lacked any sort of cohesion or focal point.

 

Individually, I do not think any of our starting midfielders are poor players, but collectively? Oh my, it just wont do...I dont see OHara or Donnelly making a huge difference either. Playing 4-3-3 with a lack of a real playmaker sees us extremely easy to play against and contain.

 

Alexander needs to get his finger out his arse, pronto 

McGuire and Cornelius are two home grown lads , would be great if they could cut it but I just dont see anything...they wouldn't have stood out in a first division team , e g airdrie 

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