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It doesn't matter what style of football you play fans like to moan. Even more so these days when pretty much everything is infused with a sense of entitlement. We put in a better performance against a better team in last year's semi final and the knives came out. It shouldn't surprise anyone. Right now we are Top 6 and got to a semi final. We are playing the best football since David Turnbull was in the side, which is 5 or 6 years ago now. The manager has less than 20 games in charge and we are a work in progress. There is areas we need to improve in but since football perfection can't be achieved by teams spending half a billion in the close season, why don't we just accept that and let the manager try to improve in those areas.

If Slattery was fully fit he would have started today. We have to remember that was his 3 rd game in a week after a return from injury. The manager has to manage those situations carefully. The game is won and lost on fine margins. The first, the referee helped to tee the corner up for Saints. The second, Just was unlucky that the ball hit off him and landed as it did. It was a great finish none the less. The 3rd could just as easily have been a great save but the ball looped into the back of the net For me the first goal set the tone and St Mirren managed the game very well from that point onwards. When I take a step back from the obvious disappointment of the evening, I would still rather be watching our brand of football than St Mirrens and I believe by seasons end we will still finish above them.

I know people are upset, but if we're going to abandon everything after a poor game, then we might was well bring back Hammell or Malpas and play "proper" Scottish football. Go back and reed last season's match threads if you want to see what's in store if we go back down that path. I'd rather we keep developing and bring in a few more players that fit in January than go back to Kettle-ball.

Sounds like Rugby Park is the place for you.

Probably wont be back on here until well after the game tomorrow. Hope everyone has a great day. Hopefully we will get the rub of the green and we are not talking about VAR or the officials after it. Fingers crossed we actually perform how we can, we have a big audience watching and would be great to let them see what we've seen most weeks. In the event we do go behind stay with the team, they have it in them to do the unexpected.

Chill out folks. Yes it was a bad day at the office, but we are essentially three months into the season, we have totally transformed our style of play and overall it’s been fantastic so far to watch. We got outfoxed yesterday by a very organised system, it happens. Also I think had we not lost that third goal then an equaliser could have maybe came, but St Mirren easily deserved their victory yesterday. I think the manager has recruited very well and when we get into January then he will have a much clearer understanding of what he might need to bring in during the window. To essentially write this whole project off due to one game seems mental to me, don’t understand what some of our fans want sometimes.

Why do people obsess what it looks like in TV, who gives a fuck about those watching on TV. They are putting fuck all into the fixture.

You also forget even at our worst in the first half their keeper had to bring off a great save and Manwanhise fluffed an effort that should have been a goal. There is a lot of nonsense talked about St Mirren yesterday, plus they got the breaks. They basically just did their job effectively. They did nothing that we shouldn't have been able to deal with had our players turned up, there was no tactical masterclass. Virtually everyone of our player was posted missing or at best underperformed. Even as bad as we were we could have had them sweating but for a comedy of errors straight after we scored. On another day we'd take St Mirren, yesterday just wasn't our day. We forget it and move on.

I honestly think its wild some of the comments on here. Yes, yesterday was terrible but some of the over the top comments regards the manager and players are just silly. The manager came in early to mid june, has changed a full system, has had only 1 transfer window to right the horror show that was Kettleball and for me has done a tremendous job. There will be ups and downs and the players probably still arent what or where the manager wants. If the players/mnager were all top notch and consistant they wouldnt be playing for/managing Motherwell so have a look at yourselves. We are all gutted and we all dreamt of a cup final but some need to get a grip.

Not a former player, but definitely worth mentioning: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cn4j8dgk8ego

Diddy cup anyway

Focusing on yesterday it appears that on here at least Ap Stam, our lack of a goal threat and Ward are being cited as the root cause of that performance. In fact some appear to be revelling in that reasoning. Ap Stam did not have a great game and we need improvement, but he and Ward were far from the worst players on view. Being let of lightly by most are Watt, Maswanhise, Fadinger, Longolo and McGinn who delivered far less than Stam and Ward. In fact Maswanhise, Watt and Longolo turned in performances almost as dire as they did against Livi. Except yesterday they did not have the convenient excuse of an artificial surface that seemingly affected their ability to run or pass the ball. On a Managerial comparison, Askou was completely out thought by Robinson who devised a system that negated the advantage we thought we would have given the larger playing surface. Can I suggest Robinson learned more from our earlier meeting than Askou did? Looked to me that Saints were perfectly happy to surrender space out wide knowing that we would more often than not slow the game down and eventually meekly surrender the ball. Time after time. Team selection wise, given the hype regarding the threat the Saints giants pose, I get why Askou selected Gordon. But not selecting Welsh and retaining McGinn was a huge error in my opinion. Welsh is the only Centre Back we have with the ability to pass the ball forward (through a pressing opposition) to the feet of our midfield/forwards. Driving us upfield. What we saw first half was the ball repeatedly played along the back line making it almost impossible for Said and Longolo to press forward quickly. On the right side, Katroumbis was a bit more effective offensively but sadly he received poor support from Maswanhise. I think Askou acknowledged that situation at Half Time which is why Welsh appeared. Why else bring on a Centre Back when losing 2-0? I also think Slattery should have started or at least been brought on along with Welsh. So, No, I don't believe Stam and Ward were the main reason we fell short yesterday. Far from it. Too many of our players had possibly their worst performance of the season, not assisted by team selection. I'm far from jumping ship as regards our new approach, but previous Managers were rightly slated for not having a plan B to revert to in times of need. So far I have seen nothing to suggest that Askou is any different. We have a difficult run of games coming up and we are far too predictable. Hopefully we will see some tactical changes that give opposition Managers food for thought. Surely that can be the case without moving away from our possession/passing approach. It was far too easy for Robinson and his players yesterday. Having said all that, it is astounding how one piece of refereeing incompetence can change the dynamics of a game.

St Mirren's game plan was successful last night but there is a ceiling to that style of play. That is why Scottish teams are embarrassed every July/ August by European minnows who'd style of play had moved on from the 1980's. Remember that Robinson's / Alexander's/ Kettlewell's style of football was generally rejected on this forum because of it's pragmatic industrial approach. A Motherwell team playing the traditional Scottish way could just as easily have lost that game last night. SR is very good at what he does. I don't doubt that this is an experiment that may not work. Our old Captain Stephen Craigan had already written it off during the League Cup group stage. Kris Boyd predicted us as relegation favourites but I think both of those dinosaurs have already been proved wrong. I think any one of us would have taken this season to date if we had been offered it back in August.

A typical Hampden performance from us. Oh how I hate the place. The seeds of that disgrace were sown before kick off with an odd line up. No Welsh or Slattery. Presumably the latter was being kept fresh to come on later and help us defend a one or two goal lead? We were outhought, outfought and outplayed, although 4-1 flattered Saints. Robinson had our gameplan well and truly sussed. Not one of JBA's best days. Only passmarks go to Hendry and Slattery. That game ranks alongside semi final defeats to Airdrie, and will remain in the memory of many for years to come.

To these people saying we need to abandon the style play , you are talking nonsense. What we need is to replace players with guys who can do it and that's why the January window will be important. I'd rather watch us playing like we do even if we lose than watch the utter shite Kilmarnock fans are watching when they lose.

Dwelling on the result won’t do us any good unless we actually learn from it and start showing it in how we set up and how we play from here on. Most of us can agree that JBA got this badly wrong, a few players just didn’t turn up, and we were outfought and outthought all over the park. Looking ahead, there’ll likely be a fair bit of movement in January. And while we’re used to getting decent cup runs, actually turning them into something meaningful hasn’t been happening. So the focus now has to be on making real progress in the league and putting together a proper push for top six.

I'm thinking along similar lines. Robinson and his squad for me are more streetwise, been kicking around long enough and more accustomed to these types of big events. I'm a huge fan of our gaffer , squad and everything we're trying to do but I do feel the occasion overwhelmed the team . Fair play to StMirren they executed their plan ruthlessly. Overall it became a non event all too quickly and I just hope we can bounce back and put some results together. It could easily become a tipping point , it's essential that we come through the next few games with wins.

I’m not overly upset at 4-1. At 2-1 we had abandoned defending to try and save the game. We didn’t manage to score again amd they punished us at the back.

Better when you say nothing at all 😃

One thing I'd like to pull you up on - unless my memory is failing me, we were utter dug meat in last year's semi final. Our goal came from a big hopeful boot into the box and we could barely string two passes together the entire game. Last night was poor - poorer than we've become accustomed to this season. We still scored a goal and missed another couple of well-worked chances. We were miles better yesterday than the semi last year.

The macaroni and Scotch pie combo I got after their second goal. They charged and refunded my card at the same time and I only noticed today. Winner. Small victories in a day of shite.

I believe our starting lineup reflected an intention to get in behind St Mirren on either flank - hence Said and Maswanhise and not Slattery. But neither Said nor Maswanhise offered anything like what they should have and this was compounded by Koutrumbus and Longelo being far too tentative and lacking in any menace. So Stamatulopoulos had little or no chance of being effective. I’m with mio - I despise St Mirren and their ethos of robust directness. They are ugly to watch, graceless in victory and were given, rather than created, three of their goals. It wasn’t their tactics or their style that beat us - although to listen to their self analysis that is what they are claiming. They broke up play by going down at almost every contact, they stole yards after every dead ball and slowed the game down as often as they could. A weak referee and our failure to stay firm at the back were our undoing, not a Robinson masterclass. I am sorry that such a remarkable turnout if our fans were so sadly disappointed - they deserved better - but I doubt we were beaten by the better team

Let's no go over the top here gents. A disappointing performance no doubt, but their first 2 goals - what can you say really? First one awful defending - thats nothing to do with our style. Second one they get a break and their forward scores probably his best goal of the season. After we got our goal back, St. Mirren did dominate and we crumbled at the back - but we were chasing the game and desperate at that point. What needs to change for us? It's been said a million times but Ap Stam won't cut the mustard. Hopefully Hendry can fill that gap but it's 50/50 right now whether he can, although I personally think he's much better than Ap at least. Crossing diabolical and what's even the point when we have nobody with any real threat from headers? JBA will be aware of this - we've made great progress so far this season but don't forget JBA has been here less than 6 months. He will need some windows to identify weaknesses and plug gaps. Robinson has been with St. Mirren and good while and has optimised his team (and they're still shite). A perhaps necessary lesson today.

Right . To me , to you ,to me , to you. You to me, me to you. Chuckle, Chuckle 😃

Yep I agree, big Bevis great at clearing headers but the prospect of both him and Ward together trying to pass the ball would be too much for me to cope with

Seems to talk a lot of sense. I'm delighted he is our manager and wish him every success in implementing his system. We have tried other ways with previous managers and where has it got us? Lets show some patience when things don't necessarily work out at the beginning, like last weekend. Given time and some resources to improve the squad and I believe we will see the improvement in both performance and results.

We can question team selection etc all day, but to me, it felt like the magnitude of the occasion really got to the players as a group. We've seen plenty of examples of how 'risk and reward football' can go either way, but if you're too scared to take any risks, the outcome is almost inevitable.

it was not our day on Saturday. The first two goals had an element of luck. Others say the ball was moving at the quick free kick. I thought the player who received the ball was offside and the linesman was caught out by it. If the player had gone and scored instead of it going for a corner it would have been reviewed. The corner looked like a mis hit, a St Mirren player deflected it and it landed at a St Mirren players foot. The second goal was a great finish but again the ball was deflected into his path when a Motherwell player stuck out a leg. Two down was always going to be a tough gig. The managers team selection was wrong. Welsh should have played from the start and the handling of Slattery was all wrong. He changed the game at Livingstone and had a great game v United but should have been subbed off after 70 minutes to ensure he was ready for Saturday. Watt who has been outstanding played more bad passes on Saturday than he had in the whole season. Fadinger and Said were anonymous. That said maybe that is credit to St Mirren who allowed us to play it around at the back but once the ball was in midfield they chased and harried and got in our faces. It is now up to JBA to motivate the players and make sure we don't dwell on this. A win at Aberdeen would be great.

After travelling back home today and reflecting on yesterday's HUGE let down. Team selection was wrong. St Mirren had a plan, and played us brilliantly. They were quite happy for us to play with the ball in our half and not waste any energy chasing lost causes and they marshalled the midfield. At 2-0 down, nothing really changed. Lets remember, we lost 4-1 and they hit the post and the bar. Like the majority of the people on here, I would love to see JBA succeed, but sometimes you have to clear the ball, and sometimes you have to try a different approach. JBA was out thought by SR, and the team were out fought. We are all incredibly disappointed, and we need a win an our next game to change the mood.

But they are though. They can barely string a few passes together. Hit long and chase type football. As others say, it only gets you so far. Any mid table Norwegian or Danish team would pump them. This has been the whole revelation of the JBA regime so far - we (in Scotland) can play the continental way as well. The soil here is not cursed. Yes, there will be ups and downs (yesterday) along the way, but you can basically take a hoofball style team and make them actually play football. The big Q is - can we take it to the next level? Not only play tidy stuff, but make it consistently effective? I think we can get there by next season with this season as more of a development year (but could still clinch top 6). I'm probably getting ahead of myself now, but if JBA is able to really pull this off and get us either a cup win, playing well in Europe etc. it could really change things in Scottish football long term. Other teams will look at it and think - why can't we have that?

Agree with that mate

Our style of play will fail. Like all the other styles have been a roaring success. Fans want to be entertained. We have been this EARLY in the season. We are Motherwell and as history shows are not consistent in performances. We are all disappointed but stop the OTT reactions and get behind the team and encourage them to improve. There seems almost like a smugness by some that we failed to win yesterday. A sort of I told you so that it would fail. There is no patience in society and realism of where we are in the football world. Fans moaning no matter what we do. What the hell do they want from a team that's unlikely to win a league or fluke a cup. After all you do need abit of luck to win a cup. Our team is much better than 12 months ago. We can only improve. Finally St Mirren are an effective team and even the very best teams in world football struggle against that type of team. That style gets you so far and I don't recall any teams playing like that winning a league or a cup on a regular basis. Motherwell doing Motherwell things ain't new. You would think we would be used to and expect it by now. That's what makes supporting our club special. You just never know if it's going to be awful, average or brilliant. It hurts today, but you just know that won't last.

Jens seems an intelligent measured bloke. He will have a good idea where we need to improve...as people have mentioned he's less than 6 months in the job , so we all need to chill despite yesterday's disappointment.

I didn't like St Mirren's style of playing but it was effective. Strip out the cynicism, playacting and fouling and you are left with a sound gameplan that succeeded. They bottled up the wings and were quite content to let us knock the ball about nicely in areas of the pitch that didn't matter. Sit back, test us and wait for the mistakes. It worked a treat. I'm still not 100% sold on our brand of football. Call me a dinosaur if you want. Yes, I like attratctive flowing football, but it has to have some purpose, some end product. There has to be a solid defence and an attack thats lethal. As it is, we knock the ball about nicely but too often in an aimless way. If, and its a big if, St Mirren win the League Cup Final how many of our fans will stick to their principles and say that they'd rather be knocked out 4-1 in the semi trying to play modern football than win it playing ugly. Our experiment still has a way to go and that must involve personnel changes in January, but I'm still not totally convinced we can pull off our switch to modern possession based football. I hope I'm wrong.

Well what an anti climax that was. 1st goal shouldn't have stood but apart from that no excuses. I am huge Askou fan but he got starting line-up wrong, Welsh and slatts should have started. No point having loads of possession and doing hee haw with it. Our full ba cks terrible today and I have defended Stama loads but Hendry needs a run. It's disappointing but this is still a work in progress and as long as Askou learns from it then I am sure we can have a good season

that was a strange one,were far better with him in the team and offers something none of the other midfielders do.welsh for me should also have started,he's came from a club that wins almost everything going,we could have done with some of that experience of getting over the line in games likes this.

Not our day. Back to league business. As well getting beat 4-1 as 2-1. well below our best as a team and individually today but hopefully that won’t happen too many games.

Absolutely disgraceful performance.

2 hours sleep off the nightshift, train to Rutherglen in an hour. Like a wean on Christmas, Mon the Well.

Enjoy tomorrow folks. Keep the Faith! See you on the other side! Up The 'Well! 🧡❤️🧡

Been Really impressed with him since he took on the role

That suggests that 33% of the panel don't have a clue.

Ba boom tish 🎵

Yes, the defence was largely ignored in the summer rebuild and that has come back to bite us in the a**e. I'm pretty sure Weeyin will agree. That said, some players were still under contract and you can't simply ship them out. For all our midfield prowess, we lack steel there and leadership is missing. Perhaps the unfortunate Jordan McGhee was signed to fulfill that role. We lack back up for Longelo and that baffles me. First choice right back and 2 new central defenders? Welsh is just on loan; Gordon doesn't seem to fit with our new possession based system and can be rash; and finally McGinn's best days are behind him. He's fine in a back 3 but struggles physically as part of a central pair. Goalkeeper is another issue. I'm struggling to find many positives from Saturday but yes, our performance will have shown JBA our weaknesses on the big stage and when under pressure. Whilst St Mirren certainly benefitted from some good luck, they managed to breach our defence with worrying ease. The question is what business we can realistically do come January. Its a notoriously difficult window. I suspect some players will need to be shipped out eg Halliday and Balmer, if possible, to clear some space.

We just need one new player.. Erling Haaland.

The focus on retaining possession seems to have overtaken the need to get the ball into the box, leaving our play pedestrian and easy for opponents to manage in non-dangerous areas.

Yawn

I'd add a left back to that too. In essence pretty much a new defence.

Where do ye get sqwerr sausage and tattie scones in Texas? Do you get Texan bars also? 🤣🤣

Compared to where we are now, I shudder to think where would have been with Barmack's Wild Sheep efforts.