Malky79

Yes, yes and thrice yes! Some did refuse to serve in Iraq, if only more did but then it is a big ask when the government is willing to ruin your life for having strong moral backbone!

Not wrong but do we need trained armed forces to help out with flooding? That said regardless it a laudible and useful purpose but it hardly makes up for all the rest.

Agree with a lot of that last comment but if people didn't sign up politicians couldn't send them anywhere. So the politicians are more to blame and yes the ordinary soldier is far more likely to face the consequences but by signing up you give the politicians that power over you. I couldn't do that and I don't understand why any but the most desperate would do that either.

+1 That guy is a bit of a lunatic, or seems to be. If you don't support the troops getting tickets it equates to wanting muslim extremists to have them or wanting british troops killed? I'm insulted at that latter insinuation in particular as my distaste for all things military comes down to a valuation for human life. I don't want to see anyone getting killed.

I agree he played fairly well Joe but he had two sloppy losses of possession one of which was a big let off the other eventually via some poor defending ended up in the 2nd goal. Rather see him in ahead of Coke on his recent form but at times he was to keen to impress I think.

Who me? Err for the moment yes. Have I got news for you is on in a few minutes though so that might be my contribution for the evening.* *Yeah I'll probably have another nosey before I go to bed, sorry.

No one has to. I'd love to see the day when the government shits itself as they haven't recuited anyone in months. Wonder what they'd do then. Anyone reminded them they follow our wishes lately, rarely seems like it? Final highlighted point I certainly agree and I certainly sympathetic to that a lot more than others.

Not really my contention is that it is immoral or at best amoral to serve in the military and likes of yourself disagree and defend their choices as morally sound and that they are rightous upstanding fine citiziens doing a brave and dangerous duty to defend the nation. Or if yourself hasn't described them exactly thus then others have. There is a general deification in this country of 'our brave boys' which I think is a heap of shit. So not a straw man as such, I am maybe dealing in slight generalisations but you are looking pedantry in your replies. End of the day we see it very differently and might be better left at that, feel free to clutter up my PM inbox if you want to discuss it further. I have promised fatcalf after all not to further clutter up the thread with circular discussions and I fear he might wear out his keyboard tapping in those sarcastic smiley icons.

Well the amount of PR bumming them up lately you'd think they were. And I can only repeat myself here, they can choose not to join in the first place.

Not changing my argument no, whether I chose the best analagy is debateable, but regardless of the right or wrongs do you think the Allied forces could seriously hold to account every member of the German/Axis forces? And it is my opinion that only following orders is a piss poor excuse, an abdication of ones own free will. That we accept that is very poor anf world would be a better place if people took more responsibility and didn't serve in spurious military campaigns.

Clearly not every rank and file member, point is saying "well they don't decide," is a very poor excuse to justify what you can be ordered to do. Some moved to Argentina?South America to escape war crimes tribunals, and if you were a rocket scientist then almost anything could be overlooked and a nice job did indeed await in the USA anyway as has been pointed out already round and round we go. Don't like what I've said get over it. Continue deluding yourself that soldiers are highly moral poor souls that get a raw deal.

Would seem I value human live, including those of the soldiers your supposedly defending, more than you do. To not reason makes us and them less than human that's a fine attitude. And as to do or die, yeah you really value their lives a whole lot.

I know, but they also know that before they sign up. I'm sure they aren't all bastards and horrible people but I seriously question how much they think about what they are doing before they do it. I don't want to shoot someone because our wonderful and never does anything wrong government tells me to do so I don't join the military. Well aware not everyone runs around with a gun also, but you are part of a mechanism that kills in the name of our government. Just following orders wasn't acceptable as defence for germans after WWII and I daresay a hell of a lot of them didn't particuarly want to invade Poland et al. I dunno maybe they did but would seem unlikely. Anyway enough from me on this issue, been round in circles on this one before. I don't like the bumming up of the military and think as a club we should be neutral and not be chasing after some cheap PR because it's so in vogue at the moment. Wasn't much call for this sort of thing after prisoner abuse scandal time?

I'm not sure about discounted season tickets for unemployed people. Pay at the gate perhaps for short term alleviation of hardship. That said outside of a potential fishing trip are you seriously suggesting being unempoyed equals being a Jeremy Kyle viewing sore on society? I have no doubt there are unincentivised people out there that would be happy to just live off society and might take advantage but I think you might be insulting quite a lot of people by insuating that because they happen to be out of work they are Jeremy Kyle loving scum of the earth? As for people that fight and die for our country, their choice. Firemen risk their lives on a regular basis and don't get extra rewards. They know the risks also. Morally I think they are on far firmer ground than what are essentially a bunch of hired killers. They aren't sainted individuals that we should be bowing and scraping to for protecting us from the evil Iraquis or Afghanis or whoever they are being asked to blow the shite out of today just so we can get some cheap oil.

Funny, not sure if it was intentional but funny none the less. I dunno about extremists but maybe we could hand out some free season tickets at the local mosque, get a bit more social cohesion on the go. Maybe do a wee two for one, free Motherwell ruck sack with every one?

Indeed that thread gave the impression that whilst a a fair few supported it more didn't. Height of nonsense if you ask me.

yeah to be much drier heading into weekend should be no problems.

St.Johnstone game was a fair result that could have went either way. Accies was points flung away that threatened to be even worse. So points we flung away for me are Accies, Rangers and Aberdeen games. Of which we didn't really create enough to deserve more from aberdeen and arguably rangers games. But overall between having a man advantage and missed pens lately we've let points slip.

Conventional wisdom is something that died out with bosman era. Managers don't get that luxury of time and players contracts get ever shorter. As it is I'm pretty happy with the progress we've made, considering we've had a fair bit of upheaval if the manager had been a Maplas we'd probably be rooted to the bottom of the league and fair miserable. Gannon is being given plenty slack and generally getting praised to the hilt but it is almost like a repeat of McGhee's first season you get shot down in flames for questioning anything the new messiah does. Everyone is pretty happy but at sametime looking around about us and seeing the wider picture there is a big opportunity to be had here for a very good season and there are a few things that cause concern in way we let a few points slip away. Its no crisis but as pointed out we're very much doing well but still on balance look like we could go either way. I'm willing to be glass half full but lets not imagine there is nothing to(constructively) criticise or debate, be it the merits of some players or the manner the manager seems to approach some games or the the general performances. This is the purpose of this forum is it not? As for enjoying the season, somewhat. It is more interesting on paper than it has been at most of the games but certainly been a lot worse in my time.

Reasonably put points, I'm not to bothered about the media stuff though. That said the last bit to me just suggest what a shower of c***s follow this team at times, fickle doesn't quite cover it. At risk of seeming contradictory though a run of one win in six does concern me a bit, I daresay if Gannon keeps getting more things right than wrong then we'll rack up a few more wins sooner or later but depsite not looking at any time like a world beating team I do think we've let slip points carelessly. There are no really good teams in this league and we are little worse than any so at this stage we should be a bit more in the mix at the top end. Call that raised expectations, but I do expect over the longer course the teams with more depth to pull away. Get a few wins over the next few weeks and all will look wonderful but we do look at least as likely to slip backwards as move forwards just now, but that never really knowing what will happen is part of the experience.

To be honest if Jennings or Lasley come in for a run out at the expense of Forbes or Coke I'd not be unhappy. Don't think they quite earning untouchable status in fist XI, would like to see if Las still has it, if Jennings can stake a claim and give the other two more impetus to stay on their toes. Either way whoever starts if we get 3 points next saturday can't really argue.

He's a bit murder to be fair. If he wasn't fast he'd not look out of place playing for the Well Trust* *Or Motherwell Supporters Team whatever the new name is.

I have to say I don't think we were that bad 2nd half. Yes we started badly first ten minutes but after that we were back on the front foot and had the chances to finish the game off and looked the more likely to score. In particular when Jutkiewicz played in Sutton, although I reckon he played it in to soon and maybe even a smidge behind Sutton who still took a bit of a poor touch. It was a really poor goal to lose and despite a couple of hairy moments after that it was a typical Motherwell performance against ten men. Plenty of the ball but can't break teams down. I didn't see the point of the change though and also agree that Moutaouakil was murder.

Definatley not Papa Lazarou then?

yeah had heard he taken a knock, bit of a concern esp as he was filling in at right back. Page might be in for a start there saturday.