Aberdeen v Motherwell 27/04/2024

[steelboy]

It takes a real expert to play Conor Wilkinson in midfield. None of us could have ever came up with that.

[Spiderpig]

26 minutes ago, wellfan said:

That's a ridiculous binary argument of qualified individuals vs social outcasts. It is not one or the other, and that is not my point anyway. You've cherry-picked a part of a sentence from my post and commented on it without context. 

Anyone can get all the qualifications required to undertake their role. E.g. Obtain a medical degree to become a GP, a UEFA licence to become a manager, or a teaching degree to become a teacher. However, that in itself does not automatically make those individuals good at their jobs. They can be qualified but shite.

Furthermore, in no way have I said that an armchair supporter is more qualified in this instance. My point is simply that the argument that an ex-pro must know what they're doing purely because they're an ex-pro is flawed.

The managers and coaches are not just ex pros though are they, they have all taken on extensive training and coaching qualifications on no doubt all of the aspects required to be allowed to look after a top flight professional team.

So when it comes to judging players they see every day at training, planning how to approach a game etc I know who I would rather have doing it and it's not somebody who watches from the stands and thinks they are Guardiola or Klopp.

[wellfan]

7 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

The managers and coaches are not just ex pros though are they, they have all taken on extensive training and coaching qualifications on no doubt all of the aspects required to be allowed to look after a top flight professional team.

So when it comes to judging players they see every day at training, planning how to approach a game etc I know who I would rather have doing it and it's not somebody who watches from the stands and thinks they are Guardiola or Klopp.

Okay then. From here on in, and because all managers must now have our unquestioning support, no football fan is allowed to call into question the tactics or decision-making of a manager until they've got the same coaching qualifications as the manager they seek to critique. 

[ropy]

2 hours ago, Spiderpig said:

Of course players can challenge,  but a straight leg studs up lunge that caught the Aberdeen player in the groin area is not a challenge its assault. 

Although I have sympathy for the referee in having to make a decision on what he has seen, I would say that there was no challenge and there certainly wasn’t a lunge.  It would be fanciful but if you could air brush the Aberdeen player out of the video you would just see a foot kicking the ball, no deviation towards an opponent.

The force of the incident was provided by the opponent not Vale.

I suspect there was enough contact that the appeal will fail.

The Rangers keeper got yellow carded for clearing a ball then a St Mirren player running into him.  Why is there no onus on the player to protect himself?  In our case the Aberdeen boy wasn’t getting the ball and his momentum caused a collision.  

[Great Balls of Shire]

3 hours ago, Spiderpig said:

Of course players can challenge,  but a straight leg studs up lunge that caught the Aberdeen player in the groin area is not a challenge its assault. 

Assault? If he's going to challenge there wasn't any other way he could've done it...I doubt it'll be overturned so it's just one we need to accept, unfortunately.

I remember a few years ago Roofe of Rangers tried to lob the keeper, he caught the keeper and it was a horrible injury, he was sent off but he obviously never meant it , sometimes the ref reacts to the injury as opposed to the intent.

[ropy]

It’s refereeing the outcome rather than the action.

[Spiderpig]

12 minutes ago, ropy said:

It’s refereeing the outcome rather than the action.

Is that not how refereeing is supposed to work, the ref ruling on the result/ outcome of a players actions?

[ropy]

6 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

Is that not how refereeing is supposed to work, the ref ruling on the result/ outcome of a players actions?

No, a player could be nudged, fall awkwardly and break an ankle.  Is that a free kick for the nudge or a red card for the breakage?  One is the action the other the outcome.

[wellfan]

3 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

Is that not how refereeing is supposed to work, the ref ruling on the result/ outcome of a players actions?

No. The outcome of a 50/50 headed challenge could be one player being knocked unconscious and bleeding from the skull and the other being absolutely fine. The outcome is horrendous but the actions of going for a header don't have violent intent and aren't dangerous. Is that a red card? 

[bobbybingo]

Appeal dismissed.

[texanwellfan]

5 minutes ago, bobbybingo said:

Appeal dismissed.

Not surprised. 

[texanwellfan]

28 minutes ago, ropy said:

No, a player could be nudged, fall awkwardly and break an ankle.  Is that a free kick for the nudge or a red card for the breakage?  One is the action the other the outcome.

Similarly, if a player dives in and clearly tries to kick or hurt the opponent but the opponent manages to jump clear,  that can still be a red card even although no contact. 

[wellfan]

12 minutes ago, bobbybingo said:

Appeal dismissed.

Wagons circled, but the Club should've known that would happen and not bothered appealing.  

[mio]

19 minutes ago, texanwellfan said:

Not surprised. 

Yip, no idea why that was appealed. Total waste of money.

Vale clearly didn’t mean it but it was reckless, wild and caught him right in the haw maws. Clear red for me.

[Kmcalpin]

27 minutes ago, wellfan said:

Wagons circled, but the Club should've known that would happen and not bothered appealing.  

Compare Vale's challenge to the one which put Lennon Miller out for several months. The Aberdeen player went in on him, late, high and with intent. Referee failed to produce a card of any colour.

[grizzlyg]

Whether we think harsh or not I just feel this was a waste of money as we were never going to be successful unless Vale was wearing a Sellik or Gers top.  We move on and hopefully Moses gets a chance but guaranteed it will be Nicholson to give another midfielder and leave Bair isolated...... overthinking SK will strike again.

Ps. Oh and did I ever say that Bevis is a big nice guy? 😜😜

[joewarkfanclub]

I get what folk are saying about the appeal being a waste of money as we were never going to win it.

However, sometimes you just have to make a stand in order to highlight an injustice and support your player.

If we just roll over and let these things pass, then we will continue to be ignored and mistreated 

[texanwellfan]

10 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

I get what folk are saying about the appeal being a waste of money as we were never going to win it.

However, sometimes you just have to make a stand in order to highlight an injustice and support your player.

If we just roll over and let these things pass, then we will continue to be ignored and mistreated 

I’d pick more obvious injustices/errors to fight. While the sportscene crew were agreeing with MFC I think there were still a number of opinions that a red was correct, even within the Motherwell support. My viewpoint was that it was never going to be overturned and that it was a reasonable call. Perhaps another ref may have went with yellow but I can understand the red. Anyway done and over now and we just have to get on with it. COYW!!

[joewarkfanclub]

1 hour ago, texanwellfan said:

I’d pick more obvious injustices/errors to fight. While the sportscene crew were agreeing with MFC I think there were still a number of opinions that a red was correct, even within the Motherwell support. My viewpoint was that it was never going to be overturned and that it was a reasonable call. Perhaps another ref may have went with yellow but I can understand the red. Anyway done and over now and we just have to get on with it. COYW!!

I know what you mean, but we have had a few this season we have let ride. Good to see that our pen claim in the last Aberdeen game was unheld. Not that it helps us much. Personally dont think it was a pen, but they have been given all season. 

[wellsince75]

On 5/1/2024 at 2:08 PM, joewarkfanclub said:

I get what folk are saying about the appeal being a waste of money as we were never going to win it.

However, sometimes you just have to make a stand in order to highlight an injustice and support your player.

If we just roll over and let these things pass, then we will continue to be ignored and mistreated 

I agree  - taking a stand for what believe is right is worth putting a few quid into .

the real waste of money is shelling out for VAR . 
 

[David]

On 4/30/2024 at 10:55 AM, wellfan said:

Anyone can get all the qualifications required to undertake their role. E.g. Obtain a medical degree to become a GP, a UEFA licence to become a manager, or a teaching degree to become a teacher. However, that in itself does not automatically make those individuals good at their jobs. They can be qualified but shite.

I think the most important takeaway from this ridiculous discussion is that Kettlewell doesn't fall into the above category. 

He's both qualified and good at his job. 

[wellfan]

42 minutes ago, David said:

I think the most important takeaway from this ridiculous discussion is that Kettlewell doesn't fall into the above category. 

He's both qualified and good at his job. 

His win percentage so far this league campaign is 23.5%, but let's not allow facts to get in the way of opinions. 

 

[David]

5 minutes ago, wellfan said:

His win percentage so far this league campaign is 23.5%, but let's not allow facts to get in the way of opinions. 

Last time I checked teams don't get relegated on their managers win percentage. Points and league placings are what matter, and we're currently sitting 9th. And we're closer to 8th than 10th. 

That's a good job. Not a great job, but a good job, with room for improvement.