League Cup Semi Motherwell v St Mirren 1/11/2025

[wellon]

6 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

And why put fans to the expense of going to Edinburgh which would take a few thousand of the crowd when Hampden is right between Paisley and Motherwell. 

 

They make the Edinburgh,  Aberdeen fans come to Glasgow so dunno if there's much logic applied 

[texanwellfan]

3 hours ago, couttsy said:

Great post! Bigger picture is top 6 so far, a semi final appearance and a great style of football to watch every week (after less than 20 games in charge).

We lacked a physical presence in both boxes yesterday and didn’t get the rub of the green. Whilst 4-1 looks awful the scoreline flatters them massively if you watched the game. As others have said we are 2/3 players away from being a really good team with an attractive style of play. Question is can we find those 2/3 players on our budget, time will tell but it’s much better to watch than Kettlewell or Hammell’s poor teams over recent years. 

Everyone bitterly disappointed but I agree, let’s not start ripping everything up and revert to hoofball kick and rush. Earlier in the season it seemed like people agreed there will be bumps in the road but sounds like any bump we hit is cause for over the top knee jerk reactions. I also wouldn’t be hoping for any major recruiting during the January window as I always think it’s very tough to get quality players mid season amd would expect the summer window to be when we can improve our squad. 
regarding yesterday I think it’s fair comment to say we could possibly have started with a different line up. Once we are two down as time runs out we end up leaving ourselves exposed at the back, a risk I think we had to take but St Mirren punished us for that. 
the players were not at their best but perhaps not as bad as made out to be in some of the posts but i do agree that we need to improve our goal scoring amd defense although if we can improve on one of those that might be enough. 

[thewelllfan]

The whole team was awful yesterday

Ward - Should of saved the 3rd goal

Koutrombis - Absolutley horrendous, the fact a proffesional footballer can't open their body up properly when receving the ball was particulary infuriating.

Gordon - Awful 

Mcginn - Poor but made a couple of important tackles and blocks.

Longelo - Worst game in a motherwell shirt

Watt - Fadinger - Both poor compared to how they've played this season and were physically bullied of O'Hara and Phillips

Mawanhise - Poor, wasted 2 big chances

Just - Probably our brightest spark and at least tried to make things happen

Said - Couple of nice dribbles but no end product

Stam - Was decent tbf held the ball in well against Gogic and got us up the pitch

Subs

Welsh, Sparrow, Hendry all made postive impacts when they came on Welsh and Sparrow and Slattery all should of started.

RCC - Was pretty anonymous when he came on.

That game has to be used as a learning curve for Jens when we play St Mirren next we should let them win the first ball when they go long and just drop and pick up 2nds.

[dennyc]

Focusing on yesterday it appears that on here at least Ap Stam, our lack of a goal threat and Ward are being cited as the root cause of that performance. In fact some appear to be revelling in that reasoning. Ap Stam  did not have a great game and we need improvement, but he and Ward were far from the worst players on view.

Being let of lightly by most are Watt, Maswanhise, Fadinger, Longolo and McGinn who delivered far less than Stam and Ward. In fact Maswanhise, Watt and Longolo turned in performances almost as dire as they did against Livi. Except yesterday they did not have the convenient excuse of an artificial surface that seemingly affected their ability to run or pass the ball. 

On a Managerial comparison, Askou was completely out thought by Robinson who devised a system that negated the advantage we thought we would have given the larger playing surface. Can I suggest Robinson learned more from our earlier meeting than Askou did? Looked to me that Saints were perfectly happy to surrender space out wide knowing that we would more often than not slow the game down and eventually meekly surrender the ball. Time after time.

Team selection wise, given the hype regarding the threat the Saints giants pose, I get why Askou selected Gordon. But not selecting Welsh and retaining McGinn was a huge error in my opinion. Welsh is the only Centre Back we have with the ability to pass the ball forward (through a pressing opposition) to the feet of our midfield/forwards. Driving us upfield. What we saw first half was the ball repeatedly played along the back line making it almost impossible for Said and Longolo to press forward quickly. On the right side, Katroumbis was a bit more effective offensively but sadly he received poor support from Maswanhise.

I think Askou acknowledged that situation at Half Time which is why Welsh appeared. Why else bring on a Centre Back when losing 2-0? I also think Slattery should have started or at least been brought on along with Welsh. 

So, No, I don't believe Stam and Ward  were the main reason we fell short yesterday. Far from it. Too many of our players had possibly their worst performance of the season, not assisted by team selection. I'm far from jumping ship as regards our new approach, but previous Managers were rightly slated for not having a plan B to revert to in times of need. So far I have seen nothing to suggest that Askou is any different. We have a difficult run of games coming up and we are far too predictable. Hopefully we will see some tactical changes that give opposition Managers food for thought. Surely that can be the case without moving away from our possession/passing approach.  It was far too easy for Robinson and his players yesterday.

Having said all that, it is astounding how one piece of refereeing incompetence can change the dynamics of a game. 

 

[wellon]

3 minutes ago, dennyc said:

Focusing on yesterday it appears that on here at least Ap Stam, our lack of a goal threat and Ward are being cited as the root cause of that performance. In fact some appear to be revelling in that reasoning. Ap Stam  did not have a great game and we need improvement, but he and Ward were far from the worst players on view.

Being let of lightly by most are Watt, Maswanhise, Fadinger, Longolo and McGinn who delivered far less than Stam and Ward. In fact Maswanhise, Watt and Longolo turned in performances almost as dire as they did against Livi. Except yesterday they did not have the convenient excuse of an artificial surface that seemingly affected their ability to run or pass the ball. 

On a Managerial comparison, Askou was completely out thought by Robinson who devised a system that negated the advantage we thought we would have given the larger playing surface. Can I suggest Robinson learned more from our earlier meeting than Askou did? Looked to me that Saints were perfectly happy to surrender space out wide knowing that we would more often than not slow the game down and eventually meekly surrender the ball. Time after time.

Team selection wise, given the hype regarding the threat the Saints giants pose, I get why Askou selected Gordon. But not selecting Welsh and retaining McGinn was a huge error in my opinion. Welsh is the only Centre Back we have with the ability to pass the ball forward (through a pressing opposition) to the feet of our midfield/forwards. Driving us upfield. What we saw first half was the ball repeatedly played along the back line making it almost impossible for Said and Longolo to press forward quickly. On the right side, Katroumbis was a bit more effective offensively but sadly he received poor support from Maswanhise.

I think Askou acknowledged that situation at Half Time which is why Welsh appeared. Why else bring on a Centre Back when losing 2-0? I also think Slattery should have started or at least been brought on along with Welsh. 

So, No, I don't believe Stam and Ward  were the main reason we fell short yesterday. Far from it. Too many of our players had possibly their worst performance of the season, not assisted by team selection. I'm far from jumping ship as regards our new approach, but previous Managers were rightly slated for not having a plan B to revert to in times of need. So far I have seen nothing to suggest that Askou is any different. We have a difficult run of games coming up and we are far too predictable. Hopefully we will see some tactical changes that give opposition Managers food for thought. Surely that can be the case without moving away from our possession/passing approach.  It was far too easy for Robinson and his players yesterday.

Having said all that, it is astounding how one piece of refereeing incompetence can change the dynamics of a game. 

 

I don't really think ward was at fault for 3rd, just took a terrible spin..anyway 

Ap stam won't do for me , just average at most things..think hendry could get goals given a run

[BigManTam]

4 hours ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

It doesn't matter what style of football you play fans like to moan.  Even more so these days when pretty much everything is infused with a sense of entitlement.

We put in a better performance against a better team in last year's semi final and the knives came out.  It shouldn't surprise anyone.  

Right now we are Top 6 and got to a semi final.  We are playing the best football since David Turnbull was in the side, which is 5 or 6 years ago now.  

The manager has less than 20 games in charge and we are a work in progress.

There is areas we need to improve in but since football perfection can't be achieved by teams spending half a billion in the close season, why don't we just accept that and let the manager try to improve in those areas.

 

One thing I'd like to pull you up on - unless my memory is failing me, we were utter dug meat in last year's final. Our goal came from a big hopeful boot into the box and we could barely string two passes together the entire game.

Last night was poor - poorer than we've become accustomed to this season. We still scored a goal and missed another couple of well-worked chances. We were miles better yesterday than the semi last year.

[ppower]

Looked through the squad and in my opinion these players can be kept. The rest can be let go.

Longello
Welsh (only on loan)
Koutroumbis (bench player)
Slattery
Watt
Fadinger
Just
Sparrow (bench player)
Maswanhise
Hendry (not seen enough of him to judge)
Cook (bench player)
Said

We need goalkeeper, right back, two central defenders, ball winning tackling midfielder and two strikers.

That's a first team squad of 19.

 

[grizzlyg]

26 minutes ago, dennyc said:

Focusing on yesterday it appears that on here at least Ap Stam, our lack of a goal threat and Ward are being cited as the root cause of that performance. In fact some appear to be revelling in that reasoning. Ap Stam  did not have a great game and we need improvement, but he and Ward were far from the worst players on view.

Being let of lightly by most are Watt, Maswanhise, Fadinger, Longolo and McGinn who delivered far less than Stam and Ward. In fact Maswanhise, Watt and Longolo turned in performances almost as dire as they did against Livi. Except yesterday they did not have the convenient excuse of an artificial surface that seemingly affected their ability to run or pass the ball. 

On a Managerial comparison, Askou was completely out thought by Robinson who devised a system that negated the advantage we thought we would have given the larger playing surface. Can I suggest Robinson learned more from our earlier meeting than Askou did? Looked to me that Saints were perfectly happy to surrender space out wide knowing that we would more often than not slow the game down and eventually meekly surrender the ball. Time after time.

Team selection wise, given the hype regarding the threat the Saints giants pose, I get why Askou selected Gordon. But not selecting Welsh and retaining McGinn was a huge error in my opinion. Welsh is the only Centre Back we have with the ability to pass the ball forward (through a pressing opposition) to the feet of our midfield/forwards. Driving us upfield. What we saw first half was the ball repeatedly played along the back line making it almost impossible for Said and Longolo to press forward quickly. On the right side, Katroumbis was a bit more effective offensively but sadly he received poor support from Maswanhise.

I think Askou acknowledged that situation at Half Time which is why Welsh appeared. Why else bring on a Centre Back when losing 2-0? I also think Slattery should have started or at least been brought on along with Welsh. 

So, No, I don't believe Stam and Ward  were the main reason we fell short yesterday. Far from it. Too many of our players had possibly their worst performance of the season, not assisted by team selection. I'm far from jumping ship as regards our new approach, but previous Managers were rightly slated for not having a plan B to revert to in times of need. So far I have seen nothing to suggest that Askou is any different. We have a difficult run of games coming up and we are far too predictable. Hopefully we will see some tactical changes that give opposition Managers food for thought. Surely that can be the case without moving away from our possession/passing approach.  It was far too easy for Robinson and his players yesterday.

Having said all that, it is astounding how one piece of refereeing incompetence can change the dynamics of a game. 

 

I have maybe missed some posts but I didnt read Ward and Stama being the fall guys from yesterday. I don't rate Ward but I certainly didnt Blame him though for 3rd goal could have done better.

Longelo and Watt were the 2 huge disappoints for me with Maswanhise,  Koutroumbis and Fadinger just behind them.

Hopefully just a blip and we learn and move on.

[Orinoco]

Dont know why Ward or AP is getting the abuse they are getting. What did they do wrong yesterday? 

Seems people want a witch hunt, but not their favourites obviously. 

Alot of below par performances, which happens. I am sure the management know our weaknesses and what needs improving. But that takes time. You need confidence to play they way we have been doing, lets not get on players backs, as that aint going to help anyone other than the opposition.

Seems some are reveling in our defeat, rather than concentrate on the fact off what we actually have achieved in a short period of time. 

 

[robsterwood]

Watch today's game Celtic much improved. Will expect the usual excuse from Robinson after game that they have bigger budget than him. He says it all the time when playing old firm Aberdeen and Edinburgh clubs. 

[Orinoco]

A studs kick to the balls and they are debating whether its a red. The coverage of our game these days is pathetic, negative, safe and dated narrative from failed coaches and managers. No wonder Scottish teams fail to progress. Far to easy to complain about lack of resources, when players cant do the basics. Coaching and management needs to modernise and improve.

Its says it all that fans want Scotland to qualify for a World Cup at all costs. If we do qualify we will be an embarrassment. You wonder is Kettlewell has one eye on the Scotland job given he plays the same way as Clark.

[grizzlyg]

24 minutes ago, Orinoco said:

Dont know why Ward or AP is getting the abuse they are getting. What did they do wrong yesterday? 

Seems people want a witch hunt, but not their favourites obviously. 

Alot of below par performances, which happens. I am sure the management know our weaknesses and what needs improving. But that takes time. You need confidence to play they way we have been doing, lets not get on players backs, as that aint going to help anyone other than the opposition.

Seems some are reveling in our defeat, rather than concentrate on the fact off what we actually have achieved in a short period of time. 

 

As i said to dennyc I don't see a lot of criticism aimed at Ward and Stama for yesterday.   For Stama especially i have probably been his biggest supporter on this forum, I think a 4 4 2 would suit him hence I suggest Hendry up top.

Maswanhise is the one who for me flatters to deceive at times and ww need more from him but in all honesty about 7 or 8 of team were below par yesterday and picked the biggest stage to blow it

[mfc88]

1 hour ago, claretband said:

But in last 3 games inc yesterday the pace has slowed to a crawl. Anyone know why?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My take on it is the opposition adapting to us.

Was more obvious against utd... sit off, let us have the ball in our half and make us break them down, as opposed to pressing higher up and leaving space to exploit.

Going to need to find a way round it. Yesterday it did feel like there was opportunities but we didnt move quickly enough which was frustrating.

[texanwellfan]

13 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

As i said to dennyc I don't see a lot of criticism aimed at Ward and Stama for yesterday.   For Stama especially i have probably been his biggest supporter on this forum, I think a 4 4 2 would suit him hence I suggest Hendry up top.

Maswanhise is the one who for me flatters to deceive at times and ww need more from him but in all honesty about 7 or 8 of team were below par yesterday and picked the biggest stage to blow it

You never know which JT is going to turn up but he is our top scorer.  If we could get consistent performances from him that would be a big boost……. Till we Sold him. 

[Throughthelaces]

Think as well we played 3 games in 7 days and we've not a lot of rotational options so I think some players were just shattered. Losing is fine it happens not happy about any loss but cam accept a loss but to go to a semi final and be hummed 4-1 is atrocious and our defence needs serious serious work still.

[BigManTam]

6 hours ago, wellon said:

Agree with most of what you say bar st mirren are shite, they're good at what they do...liked robbo at fp but watching his interview after game, he's got a big chip on his shoulder,  hopefully we get them in Scottish Cup. 

But they are though. They can barely string a few passes together. Hit long and chase type football. As others say, it only gets you so far. Any mid table Norwegian or Danish team would pump them.

This has been the whole revelation of the JBA regime so far - we (in Scotland) can play the continental way as well. The soil here is not cursed. Yes, there will be ups and downs (yesterday) along the way, but you can basically take a hoofball style team and make them actually play football.

The big Q is - can we take it to the next level? Not only play tidy stuff, but make it consistently effective? I think we can get there by next season with this season as more of a development year (but could still clinch top 6).

I'm probably getting ahead of myself now, but if JBA is able to really pull this off and get us either a cup win, playing well in Europe etc. it could really change things in Scottish football long term. Other teams will look at it and think - why can't we have that?

[texanwellfan]

We just need one new player..

Erling Haaland. 

[twistandshout1983]

Finally managed to bring myself to watch the highlights. We were well beaten on the day .  Disappointing with such a good support behind us but of course definitely not a new thing

My main hope for the next month or so is we pick up a few more league points 

[FirParkCornerExile]

3 hours ago, BigManTam said:

But they are though. They can barely string a few passes together. Hit long and chase type football. As others say, it only gets you so far. Any mid table Norwegian or Danish team would pump them.

This has been the whole revelation of the JBA regime so far - we (in Scotland) can play the continental way as well. The soil here is not cursed. Yes, there will be ups and downs (yesterday) along the way, but you can basically take a hoofball style team and make them actually play football.

The big Q is - can we take it to the next level? Not only play tidy stuff, but make it consistently effective? I think we can get there by next season with this season as more of a development year (but could still clinch top 6).

I'm probably getting ahead of myself now, but if JBA is able to really pull this off and get us either a cup win, playing well in Europe etc. it could really change things in Scottish football long term. Other teams will look at it and think - why can't we have that?

I doubt very much if JBA will get us a cup win or playing regularly in Europe.

I suspect playing decent football , developing good players , increasing attendances and keeping the prospect of relegation at bay and decent cup runs will be as far as it goes and I'm happy with that.

If JBA is successful in all of that he won't be with us long enough to take it further. It's the curse of the smaller clubs . If your successful that success is taken from you.