Livingston v Motherwell 25/10/2025

[fizoxy]

Justs header was definitely offside to the naked eye when it was replayed. The first one was very close, but the linesman gave it, so VAR wasnt a factor.

Offside decisions don't need to be clear and obvious, you're either onside or you aren't. Whether the cameras are good enough is a different question, but the lines are consistent at each ground at least.

As soon as you move away from the factual decisions for offside you would get all sort of stupid interpretations, like with all the other var decisions. It would be better if we just didn't have it at all. 
 

[weeyin]

VAR checks every goal scored regardless of what the linesman says. 

I don't have any issue with factual interpretations - my suggestion is the law needs to be changed to revert to the spirit of it.

You could still either be on or off; just use different criteria.

Actually, I'd prefer to ditch VAR, but if we are stuck with it, the laws need to adapt to keep up with the technology.

 

 

[Richie]

That said, I don't think checking to see if a player has a toenail offside is in the spirit of the offside law.

Was it not originally 'seeking to gain an advantage' by standing offside, or something?

 

[wellfan]

We’re being sold a sham in Scotland that would never fly in the English top flight, yet we just sit and accept it every week. Budget VAR tech, incompetent officials, and plastic pitches. I’ve had enough.

[joewarkfanclub]

3 hours ago, wellfan said:

We’re being sold a sham in Scotland that would never fly in the English top flight, yet we just sit and accept it every week. Budget VAR tech, incompetent officials, and plastic pitches. I’ve had enough.

I hear you buddy, but you're still going on Wednesday though, right?

[wellfan]

9 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

I hear you buddy, but you're still going on Wednesday though, right?

I’ll still be going because I’m a longstanding season ticket holder, but I think I’ll genuinely hesitate before renewing next season. VAR and the clowns running it have ripped every bit of spontaneity and enjoyment out of going to the football. It’s supposed to be entertainment, and instead we’re standing about waiting on decisions nobody in the ground can understand. We’re being taken for absolute mugs, and I’m sick of it.

[Kmcalpin]

A huge win for us yesterday as its all very well to play entertaining football but its points that count. So, it was job done. 

We started off well in the first 20 minutes or so with nice possession football, and had Livi penned back. However we were toothless up front and did nothing in their box. That combined with a resolute defence rendered Prior surplus to Livi's requirements. They grew into the game for the rest of the half without dominating possession and looked dangerous on the break, aided by our disorganised rearguard. O'Donnell suffered a torrid time on the right and Longelo looked out of sorts. Although they scored through a stupid penalty, in truth they could have been 2 or 3 goals up by half time. That said, Ward didn't have much to do. 

The second half started much the same as the first half ended although we did up our game slightly.  Again, Prior had nothing to do. Ward had a couple of good saves. As the subs were introduced, we started to improve and it was  good to see Slattery reappear.  A cast iron penalty evened things and in the last 20 we really began to open the game up. 2 exceedingly tight offside decisions went against us and goals chalked off on the say so of VAR. At the time I thought Just's first effort was way off but after looking at highlights it was toenail tight  - not what VAR should be checking.  Just got his rewards with a well taken move and finish. Game over. Ye cannae beat a late winner!

Did I feel sorry for Livi? Yes and no. On balance they probably deserved a draw but their cynical tactics make me think twice. They played a weak Nick Walsh like Aly Bain on a fiddle. Within the first 4 minutes they committed 3 fouls.  It was easy to see why they have amassed the highest crime count in the league. 

Still, we won without any help from VAR. Whilst we are battling VAR, Falkirk have lucked out for the second week in succession. Swings and roundabouts hopefully.      

[Stuwell2]

4 hours ago, wellfan said:

We’re being sold a sham in Scotland that would never fly in the English top flight, yet we just sit and accept it every week. Budget VAR tech……

It might be my imagination but do Celtic & Rangers not have a different type of VAR which they had to install to enable them to play in the champion league?

[grizzlyg]

43 minutes ago, Stuwell2 said:

It might be my imagination but do Celtic & Rangers not have a different type of VAR which they had to install to enable them to play in the champion league?

They certainly have different rules as McLean thought Said's was foul last week but happily let's mcgregor shove devlin on the chest and no yellow card 

[mio]

1 hour ago, grizzlyg said:

They certainly have different rules as McLean thought Said's was foul last week but happily let's mcgregor shove devlin on the chest and no yellow card 

The refs here are scared to book McGregor. The guy should be in the book every week, horrible wee cowardly cheat.

im watching this Hearts Celtic game and i find it annoying how we didn’t beat both of these bang average teams.

For us to have been given Welsh and Celtic to play a scared looking 22yr old with 1 first team appearance is incredible. Welsh is miles better than what they have on view.

[grizzlyg]

9 minutes ago, mio said:

The refs here are scared to book McGregor. The guy should be in the book every week, horrible wee cowardly cheat.

im watching this Hearts Celtic game and i find it annoying how we didn’t beat both of these bang average teams.

For us to have been given Welsh and Celtic to play a scared looking 22yr old with 1 first team appearance is incredible. Welsh is miles better than what they have on view.

I wouldn't say Hearts are average,  looking very strong and braga and greek winger excellent.   Yup for us to have Welsh just makes it even more sweeter

[mio]

4 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

I wouldn't say Hearts are average,  looking very strong and braga and greek winger excellent.   Yup for us to have Welsh just makes it even more sweeter

I can’t stand Hearts but I am delighted for them as I just want someone to challenge and topple Celtic.

I don’t think they are particularly great or great on the eye but one thing they are is robust. Every one of their players is solid and they are not a team who look like they’ll keel over. Every one of our players looks like they are one game away from a long term injury but Hearts are a different animal…. Really solid group.

[robsterwood]

20 minutes ago, mio said:

I can’t stand Hearts but I am delighted for them as I just want someone to challenge and topple Celtic.

I don’t think they are particularly great or great on the eye but one thing they are is robust. Every one of their players is solid and they are not a team who look like they’ll keel over. Every one of our players looks like they are one game away from a long term injury but Hearts are a different animal…. Really solid group.

I don't care who wins the league. Just concerned with Mwell. There's no way if telling how close a player is to potentially getting injured unless you know medical/ fitness details . It's a ridiculous comment to suggest Hearts are any fitter than other sides. I'm sure thier form will change at some point 

[mio]

1 minute ago, robsterwood said:

I don't care who wins the league. Just concerned with Mwell. There's no way if telling how close a player is to potentially getting injured unless you know medical/ fitness details . It's a ridiculous comment to suggest Hearts are any fitter than other sides. I'm sure thier form will change at some point 

Robust isn’t the same meaning as fitter? I never said fitter. 

[robsterwood]

10 minutes ago, mio said:

Robust isn’t the same meaning as fitter? I never said fitter. 

They are no more robust than any other side.

[joewarkfanclub]

I think the issue with Welsh is that he is no longer a young player and unlikely to develop into a player that will be dependable for them in Europe, or sold on for a fee.

That being the case, they need to clear some space for the next project.

Welsh has been impressive for us since he arrived and is clearly better than anything else we had, whether there will be a queue of bigger clubs lining up for him when his Celtic contract expires, Im not so sure.

Id be more than happy for us to get him on a contract though.

[santheman]

4 hours ago, wellfan said:

I’ll still be going because I’m a longstanding season ticket holder, but I think I’ll genuinely hesitate before renewing next season. VAR and the clowns running it have ripped every bit of spontaneity and enjoyment out of going to the football. It’s supposed to be entertainment, and instead we’re standing about waiting on decisions nobody in the ground can understand. We’re being taken for absolute mugs, and I’m sick of it.

I'm with you on that.

VAR has sucked all the joy out of watching it for me.

Find myself enjoying watching local teams in the WOSL more and more.

[yosemite sam]

I'm afraid you can't have it both ways. If there had been no VAR, we wouldn't have got what was stonewall penalty, because the referee didn't give it. 

[BigManTam]

Would love a non-old firm team to win the league personally, even if it can't be us 🙁.

[grizzlyg]

I know it's all if's,  but's, maybes, whatevers but was looking at league table and if we had done the following we could have been on 19pts and 3 behind hearts and 4pts clear of sellik

1) beat hearts

2) beat killie

3) even draw with sellik

4) beat Falkirk

Of course all hypothetical but shows fine margins 

[Orinoco]

Hearts are a solid team with the potential to improve given their resources. However, they have been getting the little breaks or luck that is needed to win games. Scottish football is often about those small margins. How long that continues for them I still to be seen. You just need to look at Aberdeen who had a similar start last season.

It would be nice if we went through a period where the breaks and luck went for us.

We need to remember that our team, which does entertain, is still work in progress. A few more additions in January and we can kick on. 

As for VAR. The officials just dont know when it should be getting involved. Its very subjective when they do. Sort that out and then things might improve. 

 

 

[star sail]

1 hour ago, BigManTam said:

Would love a non-old firm team to win the league personally, even if it can't be us 🙁.

MJC will be happy this afternoon.

His first team won, his second team won and Motherwell won as well. 

I still believe that Hearts position is false despite today's result. I think we showed how vulnerable Hearts can be if a team plays well against them. I expect the season to finish like this despite the OF angst we have been forced fed in recent weeks.

1. Celtic 

2. Rangers 

3. Hearts 

14 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

I know it's all if's,  but's, maybes, whatevers but was looking at league table and if we had done the following we could have been on 19pts and 3 behind hearts and 4pts clear of sellik

1) beat hearts

2) beat killie

3) even draw with sellik

4) beat Falkirk

Of course all hypothetical but shows fine margins 

We have definitely missed some golden opportunities and have played the OF at their most vulnerable. It has been a frustrating season in some ways but still reasonable for optimism.

I think this next week could set the tone for the rest of the season for us. 

 

[star sail]

10 minutes ago, Orinoco said:

Hearts are a solid team with the potential to improve given their resources. However, they have been getting the little breaks or luck that is needed to win games. Scottish football is often about those small margins. How long that continues for them I still to be seen. You just need to look at Aberdeen who had a similar start last season.

It would be nice if we went through a period where the breaks and luck went for us.

We need to remember that our team, which does entertain, is still work in progress. A few more additions in January and we can kick on. 

As for VAR. The officials just dont know when it should be getting involved. Its very subjective when they do. Sort that out and then things might improve. 

 

 

Agreed.

[grizzlyg]

3 minutes ago, star sail said:

MJC will be happy this afternoon.

His first team won, his second team won and Motherwell won as well. 

I still believe that Hearts position is false despite today's result. I think we showed how vulnerable Hearts can be if a team plays well against them. I expect the season to finish like this despite the OF angst we have been forced fed in recent weeks.

1. Celtic 

2. Rangers 

3. Hearts 

We have definitely missed some golden opportunities and have played the OF at their most vulnerable. It has been a frustrating season in some ways but still reasonable for optimism.

I think this next week could set the tone for the rest of the season for us. 

 

Ward must have a few quid on jambos to win league! 🤣🤣, just kidding,  he had key save yesterday 

[weeyin]

1 hour ago, yosemite sam said:

I'm afraid you can't have it both ways. If there had been no VAR, we wouldn't have got what was stonewall penalty, because the referee didn't give it. 

That's a single data point. If you look at all the issues with VAR across every game since it was introduced, I'd say it was an overall negative - including plenty of times when it has cost us points.

I enjoy watching lower league games in England and Scotland without VAR. Ref (and linesman) make a decision and everybody has to move on quickly, because the game moves on without delay.

And if ref makes a controversial call, players and managers yell for a few seconds and again have to move on, because the game has moved on.

Even better, when someone scores, ref has a quick glance to lineman and goal is immediately awarded. Simple.