New Training Facility

[Kmcalpin]

It seems that the club has applied for planning permission for build new training facilities at Cleland on the site of the current but basic provision at Dalziel Park. 

https://eplanning.northlanarkshire.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=documents&keyVal=TBUC9BBAN5700

Thanks to Standupforthemotherwell on P & B for posting this.

This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone on here.  This development is long overdue. Its well known that interested parties can object to planning applications, but maybe not as well known that any party can also submit letters of support. 

Have a look.  

I'm just surprised, that as this is already in the public domain, the club hasn't announced it yet.  

[0Neils40yarder]

5 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

It seems that the club has applied for planning permission for build new training facilities at Cleland on the site of the current but basic provision at Dalziel Park. 

https://eplanning.northlanarkshire.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=documents&keyVal=TBUC9BBAN5700

Thanks to Standupforthemotherwell on P & B for posting this.

This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone on here.  This development is long overdue. Its well known that interested parties can object to planning applications, but maybe not as well known that any party can also submit letters of support. 

Have a look.  

I'm just surprised, that as this is already in the public domain, the club hasn't announced it yet.  

Great news...this has always seemed the most appropriate answer to our training ground conundrum, to me anyway. The pitches at Dalziel are good...the lack of proper facilities have always been the drawback.

[Big Wispy Flossy]

Doesn’t seem transformational to me. Upgrading a grass park to 5G? and a new building barely the size of the existing changing rooms isn’t really going to make much difference other than the players and chef no longer need to report to fir park during the week.

very much a low budget option, albeit maybe somewhat spooked by what Kilmarnock got for their (Bowie’s) investment 

[weeyin]

1 hour ago, Big Wispy Flossy said:

Doesn’t seem transformational to me. Upgrading a grass park to 5G? and a new building barely the size of the existing changing rooms isn’t really going to make much difference other than the players and chef no longer need to report to fir park during the week.

very much a low budget option, albeit maybe somewhat spooked by what Kilmarnock got for their (Bowie’s) investment 

That's the spirit!

[mio]

These plans look absolutely fine, I don’t know what folk are expecting, it’ll never be Murray Park or Lennoxtown.

Budget wise, the plans look good and it shouldn’t take long to build/get in place.

[grizzlyg]

3 hours ago, Big Wispy Flossy said:

Doesn’t seem transformational to me. Upgrading a grass park to 5G? and a new building barely the size of the existing changing rooms isn’t really going to make much difference other than the players and chef no longer need to report to fir park during the week.

very much a low budget option, albeit maybe somewhat spooked by what Kilmarnock got for their (Bowie’s) investment 

It is better than what we currently have, any improvement has to be a good thing.

 

[stv]

They probably went for as big as they thought would realistically pass planning and not annoy the posh neighbours into objecting too much .

[wellon]

19 hours ago, Big Wispy Flossy said:

Doesn’t seem transformational to me. Upgrading a grass park to 5G? and a new building barely the size of the existing changing rooms isn’t really going to make much difference other than the players and chef no longer need to report to fir park during the week.

very much a low budget option, albeit maybe somewhat spooked by what Kilmarnock got for their (Bowie’s) investment 

More to spend on new players,  fans would complain when we don't invest in the team and some will complain when we don't invest in training facilities...although we have

[Kmcalpin]

23 hours ago, Big Wispy Flossy said:

Doesn’t seem transformational to me. Upgrading a grass park to 5G? and a new building barely the size of the existing changing rooms isn’t really going to make much difference other than the players and chef no longer need to report to fir park during the week.

very much a low budget option, albeit maybe somewhat spooked by what Kilmarnock got for their (Bowie’s) investment 

I wouldn't quite go that far, but yes, I don't see it as being "transformational". It is very much a low budget option. Will it benefit the club? Undoubtedly. 

As far as the overall package is concerned, I take it that there will be the same number of pitches as we have at present, albeit in 2 locations, if we include Braidhurst? It will be a significant advantage to have dressing rooms and catering facilities etc available on site. In the short to medium term, it will also free up space at Fir Park eg the current gym under the South Stand and allow hospitality facilities under the POD to be used commercially during the week. Presumably, the gym, treatment room, and other facilities will also be an upgrade on what we have already. 

As far as the new building is concerned, its utilitarian and won't win any design awards but that doesn't concern me. The internal layout won't concern me or the planning authority. It does seem a bit tight though as its designed specifically for 30 first players and 18 academy players. What if, further down the line a new manager or Board want to increase the academy to 20 players? A modest increase in costs might provide a degree of flexibility. 

As for the pitches, will the proposal allow the women's team to play their games there? If they do, that will save rental at K Park. I'm a bit disappointed that the proposals don't include plans for a modest stand i.e. 100-200 spectators. It wouldn't need to be an all singing all dancing facility. 

One aspect that does concern me is that there doesn't appear to be any obvious resolution of land ownership issues. Ostensibly we're forking out £1.5-2m on a building on another party's land. Likewise the new artificial pitch - will we have exclusive of that? One source of comfort is that the other party is a well known local charitable trust. Presumably we do have some kind of land use/ownership arrangement in place to safeguard the club's interests? 

As for the planning process, I doubt that will delay or disrupt the proposals. Thats not to say there won't be any objections. Its an established use on an established site and involves the replacement of an existing building. Apart from an on site bungalow, the nearest residential neighbours are about 230m away. The only aspect that might concern them is floodlighting in the winter evenings but then again, there may already be existing lights in place.  I doubt that traffic will be an issue. The design statement is comprehensive, but obviously not written by planners, as can be seen from the language used. It could have been a bit more assertive. Presumably the water and drainage submissions will be added shortly. 

Iam concerned though about the manner in which the plans have been publicised; in effect through a fan picking them up from the Council's planning website (proposals had been posted there for weeks). We've also seen some media coverage in the Sun, Scotsman and BBC for example. The Society and club have promised us big news for weeks now but yet nothing on this. As I write, still nothing on the club or Society's media platforms. A bit disappointing from a fan owned club. 

The above is mostly my own observations and opinions but I have drawn on the well informed and expert views of Patient 91 on P & B.  Well worth a read if you haven't already done so.   

[Goggles & Flippers]

2 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

The above is mostly my own observations and opinions but I have drawn on the well informed and expert views of Patient 91 on P & B.  Well worth a read if you haven't already done so.   

Expert is very generous, I did study architecture but never worked in practice. I did make a model of the Alfred McAlpine stadium in Huddersfield out of spaghetti (as it was far cheaper than balsa wood) for a second year precedent study, does that qualify me?

There’s a couple more informed than me on budgeting and planning, StAndrew7 being one who deals with tenders and bidding in a slightly different field but most is transferable and his observations sound.

What illustrates the issues with the  design being a bit of a crowbar is little things you notice. Theres no pleasant communal/informal space for the players. There’s two shown which are effectively a glorified corridor between the main changing room and atrium which won’t be used in practice. Other wee things like a referees/management changing room with three showers, a home dressing room with the and a secondary one with only four …..

I don’t know if anyone has used the gym at Wishaw Sports Centre, it’s an enclosed wee space that feels a bit claustrophobic, there’s a reason commercial gyms are in spaces from 15ft to double height ceilings.

A way to combat this is extend the building to join the garage. In that space make the gym double height and have a mezzanine, halving the current gym footprint on the existing plan. Move the lecture theatre upstairs to the carpark side and a player lounge overlooking the pitches. It opens space on the ground floor to make things less pokey.

The space vacated by the lecture theatre, the secondary changing room could be moved over to make the west side of the building less congested and a changing room better befitting the u18’s and women.

The warm and cold plunge pools is nice but surprised a ten person sauna wasn’t included, you can get one for £7k. In for a penny in for a pound.

Come WS, pony up.

[weeyin]

Are saunas still a thing for footballers, or has the sports science moved on from that?

I quite like the look of the plans and have zero concerns it doesn't look like a 5 star resort.

[Goggles & Flippers]

35 minutes ago, weeyin said:

Are saunas still a thing for footballers, or has the sports science moved on from that?

I quite like the look of the plans and have zero concerns it doesn't look like a 5 star resort.

No issue, seems you don’t mind waiting half an hour to wash yer baws.

[steelman1991]

3 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

As for the pitches, will the proposal allow the women's team to play their games there? If they do, that will save rental at K Park. I'm a bit disappointed that the proposals don't include plans for a modest stand i.e. 100-200 spectators. It wouldn't need to be an all singing all dancing facility.

AFAIK covered seating and toilet facilities are required for all SWPL teams, so they may have to include something if they want the Women's team to play there.

[weeyin]

1 hour ago, Goggles & Flippers said:

No issue, seems you don’t mind waiting half an hour to wash yer baws.

Certainly not how I've used a sauna in the past.