Our “new” seats

[1991Motherwell]

What a cop out that email was. Totally worded to suggest that the club were providing great customer service to all POD season ticket holders. Basically "we were concerned about moving season ticket holders" but ultimately offering no decent solution.

I wonder if there's a hidden agenda that we're currently not privy too Similar, in fact, to the new seating being installed.

[dennyc]

14 minutes ago, Brazilian said:

Nice to get the email tonight that should have been sent many months back.

shame it feels like GIRFUY 

Exactly. No admission that the seating is not fit for purpose and is a hazard. If it was thoroughly tested then why are seats breaking? Why are folk falling over as they attempt to get to their seats? etc etc etc

No intention whatsoever of rectifying the mistake. Their own figures show there is plenty of room in the POD for all existing season ticket holders even if the capacity is reduced. Sure some movement would happen but not as dramatic as suggested.  The threat of fans being displaced to other Stands is just a poor attempt at justification and to make those responsible the good guys. A whitewash and as you say a GIRFUY. They blew it and are not big enough to accept it.

 

[grizzlyg]

I am not in the POD stand ( every cloud for folk in that stand) 🤣🤣

However you should all keep on at the club.  The seats sound absolutely ridiculous

[1991Motherwell]

A message from Brian Caldwell.    Dear Season Ticket Holder,   When I arrived at Motherwell FC, one of the most noticeable fixtures around Fir Park was the age of the majority of the seating within the Phil O’Donnell Stand (POD). Indeed, this matter was raised by supporters to me on many occasions, particularly around when they were renewing their season ticket.   Finding suitable replacement seating had been investigated by the club over the years without a suitable option being found. When the club last played in European competition, the club was sanctioned for the seating being non-compliant and advised that the seating could not be sold for future European competition matches.   The seating was obviously replaced over the summer. I have tried to meet or speak to as many season ticket holders as I can who have raised issues with the new seating to explain the issues the club faced and the limited options available to it.   So that everyone is aware and has a full understanding of the facts and background to replacing the seats, I now feel it is best to email everyone a report outlining the work undertaken over the past year in replacing the seating. Background As noted, replacing the seating had been on the club's radar. This desire was further crystallised as the prospect of qualifying to play in European competition increased over the course of last season.   For any UEFA matches, the seats must have a minimum of a 30 cm back as per Article 18.01 below:   ‘Seats for spectators must be individual, numbered, firmly fixed in place, robust, made of a shatterproof, non-flammable material, and have a backrest of a minimum height of 30 cm when measured from the surface of the seat.'   The last time Motherwell FC played in UEFA competition, the bucket seats weren’t used because of this, and the wooden seats were used, but the club was sanctioned by UEFA, who noted these seats were also non-compliant and could not be sold for any future fixtures.   This rule also applies for any UEFA international matches at Fir Park; therefore, last season when we hosted two Scotland U21 matches, we couldn’t use any of these seats in the POD.   There were over 3,000 seats within the POD which were either bucket or wooden seats that couldn’t, therefore, be used for any UEFA matches, as neither had the required 30 cm back.   • Wooden Seats – 1,208 • Bucket Seats – 1,839   I would also note that around 90% of the wooden seats are season ticket holders’ seats. Solutions & Options   Over the course of last season, we approached several seating companies to see if any could provide a suitable solution to replace the POD seats.   Arena Seating, who are probably the biggest seating company in the UK, supplying seating to the majority of UK sports stadia and are the exclusive UK agents for a Spanish manufacturer, noted they had a suitable modern seat which was fully UEFA compliant and which fitted the dimensions of the current POD seating.   This was the only option in the market that would allow for the current seating to be replaced on a like-for-like basis, resulting in no seats being lost in the POD.   Every other option, such as acquiring seats similar to those in the other stands, required taking out 2 rows of seats for every 8 rows. This would have meant taking out well over 500 seats within the POD and resulted in many season ticket holders having to be permanently relocated to another stand.   Arena’s Sales Director was familiar with Fir Park and came up from Barnsley in early April to ensure their proposed solution was feasible. Following the visit, he arranged for 6 sample seats to be sent from Spain for testing, which then arrived in early May.   He then came back up to Fir Park to measure these in situ in order to ensure that they met the Green Guide (Safety of Sports Ground Act), which stipulates that the distance between the seat and the back of the seat in the row in front has a minimum clearway of 305mm (in new build stadiums the minimum is 400mm).   The back row of wooden seats (which backs on to the ‘Motherwell Football Club’ signage) is the tightest but meets the minimum clearway of 305mm. We achieved this by moving the boards back slightly to ensure we met the criteria. In the other rows it varies between 306 and 330 mm (front rows).   The clearway on the previous wooden seats was tight, but we have probably only lost around a few centimetres as you will see from above.   The seats were also thoroughly tested by club staff, and the same seats have been fitted in many stadiums around the world with great success.   We therefore having satisfactorily tested and found through our research that this would be the only seat on the market that could be retro-fitted into the POD stand and meet the UEFA criteria and the Safety of Sports Grounds Act placed an order to replace all of the POD seats on 28 May 2026.   As we asked for the seats to be in our bespoke (claret) colour, there was a lead-in time of 6 weeks, with the majority of the seats arriving on Monday 6th July, and the remaining arriving on Thursday 8th August.   During the intervening time we arranged to remove all the existing wooden seats (as a priority) and installed a new wooden plinth for the seats to be attached to. All wood utilised was new and treated direct from the timber yard, which we then painted in claret.   In a tight timescale and thanks to our dedicated staff, we were able to have the new seating extensively in place for our first European home match.   Summary   The options we had available to us were:   Option 1 – do nothing and don't use the seats in Europe or for any Scotland U21s or UEFA matches. This would have meant relocating over 2,000 season ticket holders to another stand for the HB, HJK and SC Freiburg matches. While not a great option, we could have used the South Stand upper for the HB and HJK matches, but this would not have been available for the SC Freiburg match. This would have meant for the SC Freiburg game that the maximum number of home tickets available would have been reduced by over 3,000, so when you consider the attendance was 8,945 with 8,485 Motherwell fans, this would have been a major issue without the 3,000 POD non-compliant seats.   Option 2 – Re-profile the Main Stand to get a bigger seat in (flip up). This would have required removing / losing 2 rows of seats for every 8 rows. In the wooden seats alone, I did a calculation that we would lose over 500 seats had we taken up this option, which would have meant relocating over 500 season ticket holders permanently to another stand. There would have been no choice on which rows were removed either, as we would have had to take every 7th and 8th row out (most rows have 28 seats).   Option 3 - The only seat on the market that works as a retro fit whilst being UEFA compliant (min. 30 cm back) was the one we went with that also can be installed in compliance with the 'Green Guide' minimum clearway (between the front of the seat and the seat in front) – 305 mm. While spacing is tight and we just meet this in some areas, having 305 mm in the back rows, although some passageways actually reach 330 mm, the spacing has also been checked and passed as safe by our stadium licensing authority.   While it is disappointing our chosen option has not been universally popular, faced with these 3 options, the club still feels Option 3 is the best option available.   Moving forward, the only future solution available to the club would be to re-profile the stand and unfortunately be forced to move a significant number of season ticket holders without affording them any choice in the matter.   We are for obvious reasons keen not to do that to our valued season ticket holders, many of whom have chosen the POD as their stand of choice.   We will, of course, monitor the situation and remain in dialogue throughout the season with our POD season ticket holders and would like to thank you for your continued support.   We hope that this information will help you understand our decision-making process and the restrictions we faced. Kind Regards, Brian Caldwell

[Kmcalpin]

1 hour ago, dennyc said:

Exactly. No admission that the seating is not fit for purpose and is a hazard. If it was thoroughly tested then why are seats breaking? Why are folk falling over as they attempt to get to their seats? etc etc etc

No intention whatsoever of rectifying the mistake. 

Well said Denny, and others. The email simply amounts to a whitewash. To say that the new seating is "not universally popular", is a gross understatement. 

We still haven't been told what the club's long term solution is and there must be one. 

I'm still curious as to what the Society's view is, if indeed it has one. 

[stv]

I've read the email. He has set out reasons for the selection of shitty seats. Fair enough if that's what he has judged to be the best solution , someone has to make these decisions. He will need to stick to by this decision now should things go wrong or someone is hurt or turns out to be a bad choice, 

The seats are still as uncomfortable as fuk ,cheap and nasty but centre stand POD still has best view of the game.

[dennyc]

1 minute ago, Kmcalpin said:

Well said Denny, and others. The email simply amounts to a whitewash. To say that the new seating is "not universally popular", is a gross understatement. 

We still haven't been told what the club's long term solution is and there must be one. 

I'm still curious as to the Society's view is, if indeed it has one. 

In fairness, in response to my E-Mail,  a Society Board Official did contact me on the Monday before the Freiburg game. But really only to confirm that the many complaints they had received had been passed to Brian.

Although there was an acknowledgement of an issue it did not feel like the Society were prepared to challenge Brian on our behalf. When pushed, the background and justification presented for the 'improvements' was almost identical to the Statement from Brian. Practically word for word in fact. Read into that what you will. It was suggested that if I was unhappy I could move elsewhere, failing to recognise that I have sat in the POD for years and gotten to know the folk around me. Part of the match day enjoyment. 

I seriously doubt the WS intend to get involved. What Brian says goes.

I get nothing can likely be done whilst home games are coming thick and fast but a promise that solutions would be investigated with a view to work being undertaken at season end following consultation with those affected would at least have shown some respect for fans' concerns. That statement does nothing of the kind.

 

[steelboy]

It's a very strange statement. He's completely ignored the feedback of people sitting in the seats regarding safety and matchday experience. He says the club tested them but that means nothing. What were the findings of the tests?

It actually reminds me of Willie Collum saying he was perfectly comfortable with the handball penalty against Celtic but refusing to say whether it was a clear and obvious handball. They seem like similar sorts of characters with similar levels of competence.

Caldwell badly needs reigned in.

 

 

[grizzlyg]

He has at least given a full explanation of everything but yes if you sit in that area it's not the solution you wish.

Looking forward to how he deals with the ones lighting flares and encroaching pitches that is costing us a fortune in fines

[Throughthelaces]

Id be curious to know if the plastic was cut round the corners and sanded appropriately to avoid cuts scrapes and general uncomfortableness etc. I would say if what brian says is true then fair enough im skeptical that this was the only solution on market but its not me shopping for it. Hes still a rather unpopular figure to me after his statement when SK left. 

[Spiderpig]

1 hour ago, Kmcalpin said:

Well said Denny, and others. The email simply amounts to a whitewash. To say that the new seating is "not universally popular", is a gross understatement. 

We still haven't been told what the club's long term solution is and there must be one. 

I'm still curious as to what the Society's view is, if indeed it has one. 

Correct Dave, a lot of valid reasons why the seats were replaced, which nobody has any issues with, but no admittance that the "only option available"  while looking good on paper, just meeting the criteria, etc has in reallity been a mistake.

They say they would lose around 500 seats in the POD, so lost revenue was obviously a concern for the club but the seats are not fit for purpose, a potential saftey hazzard, so fan saftey should take priority over finances.

There was also no indication in the email that the club is looking to resolve the issue, it gave the distinct impression that " we picked the only solution we had, we now know it was an error, but the seats are here to stay"

Im not a WS member but for me they have not stepped up to address this issue, which as majority shareholders they should be doing.

 

[Jonesy]

He's explained the thought process, like it or lump it. I don't really think the seats are that uncomfortable (there's more leg room than previously for a start) it's just the lack of room for squeezing by others that's the main issue. So long as they clean them regularly and don't let them get caked in bird shit that's about the best we can hope for.

They'll not be getting replaced again, the seats meet all the criteria needed to keep UEFA and all the other regulators happy so that's that.

One way or another the stand won't be there for much longer so they're not going to go throwing more good money after bad.

[0Neils40yarder]

43 minutes ago, Throughthelaces said:

Id be curious to know if the plastic was cut round the corners and sanded appropriately to avoid cuts scrapes and general uncomfortableness etc. I would say if what brian says is true then fair enough im skeptical that this was the only solution on market but its not me shopping for it. Hes still a rather unpopular figure to me after his statement when SK left. 

I think the guy has done a remarkable job, and it wouldn't surprise me if other clubs come looking for him...

...the Kettlewell statement was a shocker, though to be fair

[Kmcalpin]

2 minutes ago, 0Neils40yarder said:

I think the guy has done a remarkable job, and it wouldn't surprise me if other clubs come looking for him...

...the Kettlewell statement was a shocker, though to be fair

Not a good look at the time but in fairness, I think his father had just passed away at the time. Traumatic for most folk. 

I did however take issue with the way in which the minimum stadium entry age was imposed (later to be amended) without any consultation. We are a fan owned club however, and our standards of supporter engagement should be higher than other outfits. 

Going back to the seating, we all know its temporary, but how long for? Is the POD being replaced or is Fir Park itself being replaced?  

[dennyc]

13 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

Correct Dave, a lot of valid reasons why the seats were replaced, which nobody has any issues with, but no admittance that the "only option available"  while looking good on paper, just meeting the criteria, etc has in reallity been a mistake.

They say they would lose around 500 seats in the POD, so lost revenue was obviously a concern for the club but the seats are not fit for purpose, a potential saftey hazzard, so fan saftey should take priority over finances.

There was also no indication in the email that the club is looking to resolve the issue, it gave the distinct impression that " we picked the only solution we had, we now know it was an error, but the seats are here to stay"

Im not a WS member but for me they have not stepped up to address this issue, which as majority shareholders they should be doing.

 

I think you are spot on. The potential loss of revenue from 500 seats was the issue for the Board. And saying that the loss of those seats would have displaced fans to other Stands is a flawed attempt to justify their decision. They wished to maximise income from European ties by retaining 3000+ seats in the POD. Some might see that financial reasoning as justification. I doubt those affected think that way though.

And the figures presented don't add up. The loss off those 500 seats would leave a capacity of over 2500 which is surely more than enough to cater for all current POD season ticket holders. Given the number of unoccupied seats in the wings and the tickets available for purchase for league matches that seems a reasonable conclusion. Folk might not have been seated in the exact location as they are at present but moving a few meters up or down/right or left would have been preferable to what we now have. In my opinion anyway.  And consultation could easily have taken place as the possibility of European qualification was known for months before season end. 

The Club made a poor decision which badly affected many long term, committed fans. Now Brian is circling the wagons to justify that poor decision. That will come back to haunt him when/if someone gets badly injured. Meantime keep handing in any broken seats to the Director's Box.

[joewarkfanclub]

The explanation of process behind the changes required is fine, and all well and good.

However, a simple acceptance that the club are aware of the issues and will work together with season ticket holders to find solutions, should be the minimum response from a fan owned club.

[mio]

Im certainly willing to swap with Brian and he can sit on those exceptionally comfy claret seats and I’ll take his padded one with the legroom….. I’ll take one for the team