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The player sales model debate is an interesting one. For me, it's not a precarious model by any means. And I'd suggest that it demonstrably works. We're in a situation where the club doesn't urgently need outside investment - it would just be preferable. Our model ensures that it's unlikely that the hypothetical gap outlined in the Well Society's consultation earlier in the year, and the hypothetical gap that is the very reason for courting external investment in the first place, will, based on the experience of fan-ownership to date, materialise. It never has under fan-ownership and, even if it did, the Well Society has enough funding to cover that gap as a one-off. The issue would be if something that has yet to happen didn't just happen one year, but two in quick succession. Of course, nothing is impossible in football. Over the same time period that fan-owned Motherwell has remained in the division, reached cup finals, and made Europe, clubs with bigger resources such as Hearts, Hibernian and Dundee United have all been relegated. So it's a duty of the club to at least recognise that hypothetical gap and see if there's a more productive way to eradicate it, other than relying on the Well Society to plug it if it happens once, and then to probably slash our playing budget if it happens again in quick succession (before the Society has built up the safety net again). But in terms of our model, David Turnbull always gets picked out as a seeming "anomaly" but in reality, he's the result of an effective player sales model. Since fan-ownership came into being, we have - purely off the top of my head, so there'll probably be others I miss - sold, for cash, guys like Louis Moult, Cedric Kipre, Kevin van Keen, Sondre Solholm Johansen, James Scott & Ben Heneghan. We could have, had we tied them down on contracts, added Chris Cadden, Allan Campbell, Jake Hastie, Dean Cornelius & Max Johnston to that list. However, the compensation for each still numbers in the hundreds of thousands meaning that, collectively, that's still well over £1m. We will probably sell Theo Bair on for a relatively decent fee in the summer, January, or next summer, while at the same time, Lennon Miller will almost certainly go for a price that you could perhaps list alongside the Turnbull fee. In terms of any investment meaning a change from that model and the ability to keep our best players, I would argue that is incredibly unlikely, if not impossible. The player sales model is only partly because of a financial need, it's also largely because of the club's stature in world football. As has been mentioned elsewhere, it was confirmed at the AGM by the club that no investment offer is transformational, meaning that there would be no change to the model. In fact, you could argue that, if any investor was keen on getting a return on their investment, the player sales model could become even more important in that situation. The only way in which our model ceases to be our model that I can see is if we ended up with an incredibly unlikely Colin & Christine Weir scenario where a diehard Motherwell fan wins the Euromillions and wants to just chuck cash at the club. But even in that situation, where you don't necessarily need to sell players, players would still be sold - because the best guys will always want to move on to play at perceived bigger clubs or in better leagues, regardless of how much cash you're able to throw at them. The player sales model at Fir Park has been in place, and worked successfully, before fan-ownership, has worked under fan-ownership, and will continue to work regardless of whether the club is owned by the fans, an external investor, or a hybrid of the two. Personally, I think it's both a successful model that we should be positive about, because we're good at it, and a model that will be integral to the club whether we like it or not anyway.

I dont know what it is many Motherwell fans cant get their head around about the ground improvements. The £3 million we got from Government was a 20 year interest free loan. It could not be spent on players wages . The stipulation was it must be spent on the fabric of the club. The club would have been mad not to take the loan. At worst the expenditure to finance that loan in any year only ever amounts to £150,000 a year. A very small proportion of any losses we incur in any season. The £3million pound will never ever appear as a loss on the clubs accounts because its not a loss its a loan. There is so much pish written about us wasting money on ground improvements when the reality is we couldn't have got the loan for anything else and it was an absolute bargain on those terms.

Nope. We got peak Kev in his last season. Given his age and his normal goal scoring form of single digit seasons, I never wanted him back. Just bask in his record breaking season and look forward to the next Kev we uncover. I'd be happier if we kept Vale for next season.

Anyone who would have been prepared to pay more can always find other ways of putting money into the club. Starting or upping WS contributions Consider buying 50/50 tickets Etc etc.

Who do we need to compete with, only Motherwell fans buy Motherwell season tickets, so not increasing the prices is a good thing. A price increase even a modest one might have pushed the price beyond some people's budget. So if there's no need for an increase its happy days and a good move by the club.

she possibly wasn't called Mrs Wellgirl.

Thanks Theo nice to see your backing yourself, self confidence is important.

At the financial levels we operate at re wages etc £750k would fund possibly 4 or 5 players, so it's very decent cash to a club like ours. And the bigger English clubs know this all too well, it's small change to them.

The only thing more eye-stabblingly painful than the annual "writing off new players we have signed" ritual is the annual "writing off players we haven't signed" ritual.

You ever get the feeling where I wish I hadn't mentioned it!! Cheers Mr Cowan 😜😜

Probably something to do with his 204 career goals vs Theo's 21.

Ominous. I'll no sleep tonight.

True, but your point surely has its limits.

No really. I just made up a more inspiring rumour to cheer Steelboy up. I mean, surely the Scougall one's pish too - a guy approaching 32 who's spent the last 4 years at Alloa. The only possible way that would make any sense would be if we get relegated. Are these names coming from any reliable source, or just some randoms online?

The fee is immaterial. Neither Turnbull or Lennon needed to sign extended contracts but did so to make sure the club got a payment for their investment. They knew they were / are going and could have left for nothing but chose to help the club . As I said they are exceptions. Whatever Bair does it is extremely unlikely if he knows he's a wanted man and likely to be leaving that he'd sign an extended contract to ensure Motherwell were taken care of. He, like the vast majority, will when the time comes piss off without so much as a backward glance to the club. Football is full of guys like Chris Cadden..

Where are we getting the £4million from?

Miovski's a much player than Bair. He looks like he chucked it after January this season but still turns up against the Old Firm to keep himself in the shop window.

Well, either him or Harry Paton.

In the real world a player is only as valuable as what another team are prepared to pay, no offers no sale and he walks for nothing next summer.

No even in a lucky bag. His race is run.

Random shite as usual

Get your 2024/2025 season tickets

It's the chokey for you! 😆

Lol😂😂😂😂😂😂 More likely to be headmistress Trunchbull from Matilda and Adam Campbell of Crawly town. 😂

Did you steal that line from the Aberdeen site?

According to 10 years of Premier League data, the prime age for a midfielder is 25-26, then there is a drop-off after 30. Davor, Slattery, and Paton are all at their peak with a few good years left, Spittal is at his peak, Miller is just getting started, and Halliday, Easton and Scougall have peaked. Do we need that many midfielders in their early 30s? No. At best, one or two would be worthwhile and experienced additions to the squad. I'm all for signing local players, but let's not become a convalescent home for the older ones. https://theathletic.com/2935360/2021/11/15/what-age-do-players-in-different-positions-peak/

Some of our ball players should have re aligned that fat fud Johnstones chakras that night .

There are a number of thoroughly dislikeable folk on here , who cannot debate with anyone with resorting to abuse and insults because you may disagree with them. I just make it clear to these types I will not discuss anything with them and move on. I don't know if there is a block facility of this site but if not it could be worth getting..

Not sure Ive seen anyone telling another poster to shut up in respect of the investment stuff or indeed opinions of players / the manager. The ones who tend to be called out are those who are negative about absolutely everything regardless of context. Ive had some lively debates with your good self and others at times over opinions. But as you yourself said previously, thats what this place is about. I think we can both agree though that we were both wrong about Bair. But he is better than "semi-pro" level! 😉

he doesn't owe us anything, we may think he does but the reality is he looks after himself and no one else. Guys like Turnbull and Lennon are the exception to the rule and they tried to look after themselves and the club.

The bogeyman says it’s from a Nigerian prince, all we have to do is give him all our bank details and he will transfer the money - think he’s worked with Accies before.

It really comes down to the criticism and how it's delivered. I doubt that Bair would have any issue with anyone calling into question his record before he arrived at Motherwell or people questioning our signing him based on that record. If we're honest, it was absolutely honking. He'll likely be the first to admit that. He's not an idiot. He'll know his record wasn't great. Another key aspect is being critical of the player's performance and his record without getting personal. But those same fans who were critical of him are now giving him his due credit, so it works both ways, doesn't it? Social media is a cesspool anyway, and any player who reacts to that really needs to sort themselves out. Once we step into the stadium, all that criticism should go out the window. It's at that point we support the team and the manager. I don't think booing or hurling abuse from the stands is acceptable.

Yeah, I'm sure we'll be fine too. The chances of both County and St Johnstone suddenly hitting form at this late stage are slim, to say the very least. No need for us to make it more interesting than it should be, though.

The most likely scenario I think Bobby. I also think St Johnstone will take a point from Hibs. No reason to panic though. At the end of the season I think we'll finish 9th, 3 points above the 11th placed team. We can beat Livingston and draw in the last game, that should be be enough. Our superior goal difference will be a valuable cushion too.

Posher than Slats?

No emoji required, I always judge players on how they perform, don't always get it right as I thought Bair was brutal but he's a great example of how new players should get time to settle and prove themselves instead of being written of as shite after 5 minutes.

Had Hynd, both Whitefords and Morton's Frank Welsh as PE teachers, bizarrely I got on really well with Hynd, even more bizarre though was becoming good friends with Alan Faulds from pre match pints in the Cooper

Youre right could actually be 2.5k a month. I'll need to look it up but think thats more likely. Pretty sure it is around 2.5k a month Bair is on. Don't ask me why I said a week.

We can keep him till next summer, if his agent has a sniff of a better deal for him elsewhere he wont sign an extension and let his contract run down and we get feck all. So if that happens the club will say yes take the money on offer and say thanks Theo best of luck with your career.

We need to remember he is only on a 2yr contract. I am not looking to sell him but if we get a good offer be wise to cash in. Reminds me of Connor Sammon at Killie, had 1 good season, derby paid £2 million and he done her haw afterwards

Indeed. I'd also be happier if he played a bit closer to Bair...

On plus side we would get money as uefa pay clubs if your player is in squad..

I think you are clever enough to know that the Safety Certificate comment related to the ground facilities. And you can only spend profits if you earn them. Losses of over a million in successive seasons will soon empty the coffers.

Now there’s two of the bogeymen under steelboys bed, which with the amount of bogeymen he sees must either be a very big bed or very crowded under there.

you are quite correct their is a big difference but as much as potential investors need to prove their case , so do the Well Society , they too need to tell the fans how they will grow sustainable Revenue streams and have coherent business plans to back it up. They do that and no bugger will look twice at outside investors.

Because McMahon and Weir don't like the look of the new Society board.

Something like : top 2 get champions league, cup winners get Europa, third and 4th place gets Conference league, if 1st-4th win the cup then 5th gets conference league.

For me this is the vital ingredient. I think everybody acknowledges that just like everybody else we are a selling Club. And there is nothing wrong with that. But unless the club is at the same time generating profits and/or has a constant stream of quality youth coming through, then the product on the pitch inevitably decreases. A trend we have seen for a good few seasons as income has been utilised for a wide range of infrastructure improvements rather than maintaining player quality. Not having a dig at the Directors here as most Clubs are experiencing similar decline. To a degree that has hidden our own issues. What the Board statement actually said before all this debate started was that to CONTINUE TO OPERATE AT THE CURRENT LEVEL some form of outside investment is required. If we are prepared to risk a drop in the level we play at, then we can continue as is. So why can't we strive to have a balance that incorporates outside investment on acceptable terms plus income from player sales plus a growing Well Society? Especially if that additional investment is used in part to fund a stronger and more productive youth programme. Then any on field performance above the level budgeted for results in growth and does not mean we just stand still at best. Also the big issue with bringing in value through player sales is that players will often deliberately let contracts run out. And there is nothing the Club can do about it. Take Lennon Miller. Thankfully he has extended and we all expect him to go for Turnbull like monies. But what if next January Motherwell are offered half of what they think he is worth. Do they turn the offer down or reluctantly accept it because we need the money? If they opt not do sell, could that upset the player in which case he might decide to run down his contract in the hope of a big sign on fee from a top club in due course? That situation is happening throughout the football world. My point is that overly relying on player sales is risky. And if those potential sales are the only realistic way of generating income then that risk is greatly increased. And sorry, but saying we have broken even over the past seven, ten or twenty years is meaningless. Turnbull and two cup finals in a season are history. What matters is how finances are working out in the present.

What a memory jerker that is. Dropped my mum and sister off in the city centre - dad in his wisdom decided we would take in the game. First turnstyle he came too was the main stand at the city centre end of the ground. Got in and were surrounded by priests (hundreds of them). My dad's advice? sit on your hands and we both managed it until Pettigrew's winner - he was first out his seat followed quickly by me. Thankfully we got out without too much trouble. The look on their faces as we celebrated was a joy to behold.