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Europa League Campaign 2020-2021

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There are a couple like Lamie and McGimley who I think are just bad but we also have a few players playing well below their potential in O’Donnel, Gallagher Long and Polworth. You can’t expect too much when half your players are not performing.  Despite that we were still in with a chance right up to 70 mins. Back to the grind of the league now and so we need more performances like we put in against Hibs and Aberdeen. 

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That was O'Donnell's first poor game tonight in my opinion, but it was a bit of a shocker.

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35 minutes ago, GazzyB said:

That was O'Donnell's first poor game tonight in my opinion, but it was a bit of a shocker.

He was excellent in the first 20. He and Campbell had that side rattled. Then they got a free kick.... 

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27 minutes ago, GazzyB said:

That was O'Donnell's first poor game tonight in my opinion, but it was a bit of a shocker.

Was it? I think we've been poor on our right side several times this season (Coleraine and St Johnstone come to mind) and opposition sides have been targeting us there. Big Declan let us down tonight and his form this season has been poor. He's a very good player though - why is he not himself? Captaincy weighing on his mind/wrong central defence pairing/covering up for others? 

Tonight was a very valuable lesson and one that doesn't come around too often; we can't afford to waste it. Is our squad too young and inexeperienced or is it down to the wrong combination of characters? In terms of "experience", HBS were a slight cut above teams like Accies, Ross County and St Johnstone but not by that much. These sides are "streetwise" and have used it to their advantage against us. Even part timers like Coleraine were cleverer than us. We need to wise up and quick.

I recall watching sides like Dundee United and Aberdeen in years gone by and now Accies. They could bring in kids of 16/17/18 who were experienced way beyond their years and well capable of drawing fouls and getting opponents carded illegally.

I don't particularly like this style of football to be honest but thats life as they say. Is it any worse than setting out to maim and injure opponents as more than a few very respected managers have taught their charges in decades gone by? Like it or not, and I don't, its a feature of the modern game. If you can't beat them maybe its time to join them.

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I actually enjoyed the first 25 mins of the second half.  We came out and pressed up high. Turned it into a very open game where I thought we were holding our Own  but unfortunately we still had one foot that hadn’t been shot yet! 

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There was a pot of gold if we could have got past the next few games, Hapoel had pedigree but were beatable. We had a mare defensively (not for the first time) and a couple of short circuits at critical moments.

In that flurry of yellow cards for them after half time we should have been streetwise (a favourite phrase of Robinson so why the fuck don't we do it) and got in those particular players faces and drew more fouls. That would have given us a fighting chance. They were full of that any touch, roll about on the floor holding your face bullshit. The wing backs don't press and whip in balls and despite having a plethora of wingers we're not using any of them and when we do, they don't take on the opposition, they run until they are closed off turn and square ball if we're lucky or pass back to the defence. The front two partnerships of Long and Watt now seem to be inter-switched with Whyte and Lang, to hell with Hylton, Seedorf and Hastie.

I have to wonder, you compete all season long to finish as high up the league as you can, progress as far as possible in the two cups, blood youngsters and hope players you bring in get added value.

2019/20 we finished 3rd (an extra 150k was it over 4th?), this gave us entry to the Europa and conservative estimates for prize money minus travel expenses means another 500k. The business over the summer has been more misses than hits, I can only hope the youth academy is getting a fair chunk of this extra wedge otherwise where and who is it going on or is it being banked as a rainy day fund?

I follow this team and give my money over the years because I want to see an improvement, a rise to where the datum is higher than the year before. When windfalls come in I want to see it used on bringing better players in or at least being spent on that potential through our youth setup (which has paid dividends to the nature of 5 million in the past couple of years). Turnbull, Scott, Hastie, McKinstry and no doubt Campbell who will go before the deadline, all this talk about signing him up etc.

Campbell has refused multiple contract offers because he's seen the guys he grew up with and had less consistency and impact cut about in Merc's on 4x his salary and upwards. To think the club haven't put something in front of him repeatedly is naivety. 

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3 hours ago, Shaka said:

We had nothing apart from a free header in the second half. The keppers only save was in the 93rd minute. We never pushed them at all. 

Dont get me wrong, we played ok in the first half, but they never broke sweat. Watt worked like fuck. Long can get to fuck tho, lazy moody waste of a jersey

Their keeper had a great save in the first half and there was the long throw that broke to watt.....up to that point we had the best chances

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1 hour ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

Their keeper had a great save in the first half and there was the long throw that broke to watt.....up to that point we had the best chances

My recollection is that each keeper made 1 save in the first half. 

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4 hours ago, Goggles & Flippers said:

There was a pot of gold if we could have got past the next few games, Hapoel had pedigree but were beatable. We had a mare defensively (not for the first time) and a couple of short circuits at critical moments.

In that flurry of yellow cards for them after half time we should have been streetwise (a favourite phrase of Robinson so why the fuck don't we do it) and got in those particular players faces and drew more fouls. That would have given us a fighting chance. They were full of that any touch, roll about on the floor holding your face bullshit. The wing backs don't press and whip in balls and despite having a plethora of wingers we're not using any of them and when we do, they don't take on the opposition, they run until they are closed off turn and square ball if we're lucky or pass back to the defence. The front two partnerships of Long and Watt now seem to be inter-switched with Whyte and Lang, to hell with Hylton, Seedorf and Hastie.

I have to wonder, you compete all season long to finish as high up the league as you can, progress as far as possible in the two cups, blood youngsters and hope players you bring in get added value.

2019/20 we finished 3rd (an extra 150k was it over 4th?), this gave us entry to the Europa and conservative estimates for prize money minus travel expenses means another 500k. The business over the summer has been more misses than hits, I can only hope the youth academy is getting a fair chunk of this extra wedge otherwise where and who is it going on or is it being banked as a rainy day fund?

I follow this team and give my money over the years because I want to see an improvement, a rise to where the datum is higher than the year before. When windfalls come in I want to see it used on bringing better players in or at least being spent on that potential through our youth setup (which has paid dividends to the nature of 5 million in the past couple of years). Turnbull, Scott, Hastie, McKinstry and no doubt Campbell who will go before the deadline, all this talk about signing him up etc.

Campbell has refused multiple contract offers because he's seen the guys he grew up with and had less consistency and impact cut about in Merc's on 4x his salary and upwards. To think the club haven't put something in front of him repeatedly is naivety. 

You’ve hit the nail in the head. 

As fans, you pay to see as good a team as possible on the park. Fan ownership means we are all privy to the knowledge of being debt free, Prior. Between player sales, prize money and sell-on fees, we must have netted close to 4 million in profit in the last 2 months yet we are without a stated plan of investment and clearly watching a squad that needs it badly. I refuse to believe for a second that Mcginley and Lamie are commanding the salaries of Hartley and Tait or at least I hope to god they aren’t as they a fraction of those players. So again, I ask the question, where has the money gone or is planned to go? 
Others have said correctly, that side were there for the taking and you cannot help that feel that had we already invested in 2/3 players of quality that I and others have been crying out for, we would be looking at a playoff at home for a shot at the groups. 

It’s only correct for the club to now come with a roadmap. 
 

We seem to be paying salaries for a raft of players either not good enough or indeed not good enough to even get a look (not to mention permanently crocked Dunne whom I’m imagining is a larger earner) so again, what’s the forecasted return of investment from a fans perspective now? Not in terms of money, but in terms of product.

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All the talk of "a run" is laughable. The harsh reality is that we only managed to overcome 2 part time sides. We were finally able to get on top of Glentoran when they went down to 10 men and the Coleraine game was won when our goalie pulled off heroics in a penalty shootout in a game we almost threw away. HBS was a winnable tie but again, crazy defending and poor decision making undone some decent play. We are nowhere good enough to cut it against decent European sides. All this "streetwise" guff is a smokescreen to cover up some rank rotten performances. Carson and Campbell apart, I am struggling to name anyone else who can be pleased with their efforts in the 3 games

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8 hours ago, Eck said:

Motherwell and Aberdeen were unlucky with a really difficult draw

Unlucky.....we had great draws in all 3 rounds, 4th lowest ranked team in Q1, Coleraine did us a massive favour by beating Maribor to get us seeded in Q2 and we got them again one of the lowest ranked  teams. In Q3 we avoided the likes of Basel and got the lowest ranked seeded team in our mini group. 

So we have had lots of luck draw wise in all 3 rounds  but we never took the chance last night.

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This forum is so negative! We were put out by a side with a 40,000 seater stadium who can sign players from Porto. We more than held our own for over 60 minutes and with a bit of luck could have scored which would have made it a very different tie.

Also all this roadmap pish, in case you forgot we are in the middle of a pandemic and can’t have fans in the stadiums, I think Motherwell and most clubs worldwide are just thinking about basic survival right now.

End of the day we got a decent wee run in Europe that will have netted the club a wad of cash. 
 

Spare a thought for clubs not in our position who without fans could easily go to the wall. There are far bigger issues out there right now than how we spend £4 million like it’s fucking football manager time!

 

 

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I thought they were for the taking last night. Second half felt like a case of one team is going to get someone sent off and unfortunately it was us.

Other than that I dont think we've a lot to be ashamed of, 3-0 doesn't paint a pretty picture, but that wasn't at all the picture for most of the game. Easy to forget the heat they were playing in too.

Ref was very whistle happy which was annoying but consistent both ways tbf. However I thought their boy should have been off for his tackle on Watt early on. High, studs up, and through the back of watt to get nowhere near the ball. Had that not been so early on I suspect it might have been. But these things never go in our favour!

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41 minutes ago, johnstone said:

This forum is so negative! We were put out by a side with a 40,000 seater stadium who can sign players from Porto. We more than held our own for over 60 minutes and with a bit of luck could have scored which would have made it a very different tie.

Also all this roadmap pish, in case you forgot we are in the middle of a pandemic and can’t have fans in the stadiums, I think Motherwell and most clubs worldwide are just thinking about basic survival right now.

End of the day we got a decent wee run in Europe that will have netted the club a wad of cash. 
 

Spare a thought for clubs not in our position who without fans could easily go to the wall. There are far bigger issues out there right now than how we spend £4 million like it’s fucking football manager time!

Well said. 

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54 minutes ago, johnstone said:

This forum is so negative! We were put out by a side with a 40,000 seater stadium who can sign players from Porto. We more than held our own for over 60 minutes and with a bit of luck could have scored which would have made it a very different tie.

Also all this roadmap pish, in case you forgot we are in the middle of a pandemic and can’t have fans in the stadiums, I think Motherwell and most clubs worldwide are just thinking about basic survival right now.

End of the day we got a decent wee run in Europe that will have netted the club a wad of cash. 
 

Spare a thought for clubs not in our position who without fans could easily go to the wall. There are far bigger issues out there right now than how we spend £4 million like it’s fucking football manager time!

 

 

Could not agree more. Excellent post!

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54 minutes ago, johnstone said:

This forum is so negative! We were put out by a side with a 40,000 seater stadium who can sign players from Porto. We more than held our own for over 60 minutes and with a bit of luck could have scored which would have made it a very different tie.

Also all this roadmap pish, in case you forgot we are in the middle of a pandemic and can’t have fans in the stadiums, I think Motherwell and most clubs worldwide are just thinking about basic survival right now.

End of the day we got a decent wee run in Europe that will have netted the club a wad of cash. 
 

Spare a thought for clubs not in our position who without fans could easily go to the wall. There are far bigger issues out there right now than how we spend £4 million like it’s fucking football manager time!

 

 

Bang on Matt....think a lot are forgetting that no bums on seats is eating away at finances. We’ve bagged a wee bit and if we don’t get fans back soon , it’s going to be a godsend. We are going to be in a better position than some .

Better not start on this but we can surely get fans back safely soon.

There’s  guys on here , mainly steelboy and yodo who never see the light of day when we get a positive result , e.g after Sunday 

On the other hand it is frustrating to get done by two free kicks , used to be Scottish teams stock in trade clearing high balls but we all seem very vulnerable now.

Not convinced it was a pen , he’s pushing into Dec , so he’s got to stand his ground.

Look  at the goals a small player like Larson used to score just by good movement.

as Robbo always says games are won and lost in the two boxes, bar the Gallagher chance we never missed any out and out sitters.

 

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11 hours ago, numpty said:

Fixed that for you.

Exactly.

Part of our problem is thinking we have played OK when we haven't.  It's like a fundamental misunderstanding of the sport.

It's a game of small margins.  Most of the time winning or losing, no matter how 'good' or 'bad' you are in general play, comes down to a handful of incidents.  Being good is ultimately judged on how you deal with those incidents and all season we've been found lacking in our decision making, our concentration and so forth.

That's how the game is. There is no point saying 'Oh we were in the game and then this happened'.  The whole point of the game is making sure 'that' didn't happen for them and that 'did' happen for us.

In the end we lost 0-3 and that's a pumping.  Harsh?  Maybe but that's football. It's a merciless sport.

 

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I still think the biggest thing is mental. We have guys like Long and Gallagher who just can't control themselves and will let you down. You could hear them on the touchline after they came off last night as well and it's pretty obvious they aren't willing to take any responsibility. The Israelis were vicious but they clearly targeted several players and did it in positions that weren't dangerous.

European games are where this gets exposed the most but it happens domestically as well. Grimshaw cost us two goals in a Scottish Cup Final and faced zero consequences. If you set low standards you'll get the results we get. Standards in terms of fitness have increased greatly since McCall and McGhee and last night and sunday showed we could hold a defensive shape but individual players still let us down with daft errors and poor decisions. The two free kicks in the first half were criminal, the ball has to go in the box to play the percentages, a well coached team doesn't make errors like that.

 

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1 hour ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

Bang on Matt....think a lot are forgetting that no bums on seats is eating away at finances. We’ve bagged a wee bit and if we don’t get fans back soon , it’s going to be a godsend. We are going to be in a better position than some .

Better not start on this but we can surely get fans back safely soon.

There’s  guys on here , mainly steelboy and yodo who never see the light of day when we get a positive result , e.g after Sunday 

On the other hand it is frustrating to get done by two free kicks , used to be Scottish teams stock in trade clearing high balls but we all seem very vulnerable now.

Not convinced it was a pen , he’s pushing into Dec , so he’s got to stand his ground.

Look  at the goals a small player like Larson used to score just by good movement.

as Robbo always says games are won and lost in the two boxes, bar the Gallagher chance we never missed any out and out sitters.

 

Read the posts before coming on spouting pish . Right after the Aberdeen game I posted that we had played well and how defended well and attacked with a threat . However you only read what u want to read not afraid to post how I see it and after last night the amount of people saying we played well is unreal but again all about opinions 

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Its oh so easy to always blame people for the loss and I like most feel the game was there to be won but our lack of experience and also the big one Belief that we could beat them cost us. Any game of football it is always someones fault for the goals and gallagher sending off i feel may have happened coz we got away with mcginley one. Campbell and Watt to a degree were best players last night and I feel that comes down to in the main that they believe in themselves that they are as good as who they were up against. We badly need a midfield general similar in playing style to gorrin who can get on the ball and dictate as every time it was played into ohara i was flapping and so was he as he is not quick or nimble enough. To be fair to him his best position is where campbell plays so he is having to make do. I also feel maybe polworth could play there as his passing is best part of his game and would like to see a swap of him and ohara position wise. 

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13 hours ago, Andy_P said:

This one stings.

It wasn't an especially poor performance by any manner of means, we weren't great but for a large chunk of the game we were more than half decent. And I don't think the opposition were particularly startling either. If, as was said Glentoran and Coleraine were roughly a Morton or Queen of the South, then I'd say this lot were perhaps going away to a Killie, Hearts or St Johnstone.  Difficult sure,  but by no means unbeatable.

But a combination of naivety and stupidity cost us dear.

Break it right down and your sliding doors moment perhaps, they put the free-header they had in the net, we put ours over the bar. 

The free-kick given away by Long was naive, the marking in the box appalling.  But until then I thought we'd played pretty well.  Long did well with the turn and shot, Watt a little unfortunate to get his feet tangled and the shot from close range blocked.  But we were matching them comfortably.  Their theatrics that were garnering them fouls I think we'd one shot to concern ourselves with.  So frustrating for Long to be suckered and the poor defending so close to the break.

I thought we started the second half purposefully but without creating a great deal of chances. And you can't then pass up the kind of chance that fell to Gallagher.

I was anticipating a change and when McGinley gifted them the opportunity I thought that was the time to go to four at the back and put on a winger.  But then Gallagher killed it.  If there was some justification in "taking one for the team" with the first yellow, to immediately follow that up seconds later by attempting to strange someone in the box. I mean come on!!!

It was done then. 

The third adds what feels like some undeserved gloss but in much the same way as we were clinical at Pittodrie so too were Hapoel tonight.

I don't have Odense, Stjarnan, Katowice or MyPa style regrets but this is most certainly an opportunity lost.  Particularly when so much of the damage was self-inflicted.

 

Thank goodness you are on this message board Andy.  I was beginning to think I had watched a different game from some of the suicidal posters venting their spleens once again. Everyone is entitled to their opinion  but to suggest there was nothing good in last nights performance and that everyone is shite bar Campbell and Watt is raising the doom mongering to new levels. Compared to where we were 3/4weeks ago, we have improved dramatically, and while we beat ourselves last night through naivity and indiscipline, there was plenty in that performance to show that we will be ok this season. 

 

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For what it’s worth a couple of my thoughts

We weren’t pish and looked good at times but as with most games this season, we couldn’t create/convert decent chances. (Lack of 2 or 3 quality players due to our financial structure which I’ve pointed out before could have been slackened with the cash generated over the last 12 months to allow us a better chance in Europe & domestically - even taking Covid into account) 

They should have had a player sent off in the first half but the ref thought different. 

They should have had a penalty earlier in the second half. 

Was Lambie out of position at the first goal? ( if we were playing a zonal defence for set pieces and Lambie was to cover the front area then  I’d say it’s the guy who was supposed to be covering the middle of the goals who was missing ) although his passes back to the keeper always give me the fear of being short or wayward.  

Finally I’m pissed off at us always looking for a rough diamond and just wish we would sign someone who is already cut and just needs polished or reset   

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Looking at the first goal in the highlights we have four players lined up on the 18 yard line then Gallagher and Lamie two yards behind them. Shambolic.

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6 hours ago, Yodo said:

Read the posts before coming on spouting pish . Right after the Aberdeen game I posted that we had played well and how defended well and attacked with a threat . However you only read what u want to read not afraid to post how I see it and after last night the amount of people saying we played well is unreal but again all about opinions 

If you did lad, I never saw it , if you fancy reposting it on this thread , that’d be ace. In general you are usually negative and a bit angry ....you could’ve said I think you are mistaken , but it’s “ spouting pish “ apparently....where’s your class?

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