Stuart Kettlewell discussion thread

[star sail]

1 hour ago, Dossertillidie2 said:

See I have never seen it like that because I saw hammell as a guy that inherited Alexander’s team, made 4 signings. Two had returned to their parent clubs injured  by Nov and had at one point and I (quote his press conference) 13 first team players out injured

 

he was a guy who desperately needed a window and players which he got eventually but didn’t get the time to spend playing them together. The players he signed that were a big reason for our up turn in fortunes were Casey/blaney and butcher at the back and the likes of Mandron /obika to play alongside van veen

it was those same players that kettlewell inherited and got the benefit of. 
 

when you look at both managers there starting points were in stark contrast 

I think this is a really good point you have made. It reminds me of the McGhee/ Gannon/ Brown era.

McGhee had a very successful spell but had left the club with a threadbare squad.

Jim Gannon arrived and did possibly the most impressive squad rebuild in Motherwell history.

When Gannon left, Craig Brown inherited a very strong playing squad.

Gannon is a very devisive character amongst the Well support but he actually had a very positive impact on Motherwell's success at that time. Let's not forget that Motherwell qualified for Europe that season via the Fair Play award, thanks to Gannon's philosophy on how the game should be played.

I made a comment last night that Hammell is possibly the only manager in recent times not to have made a positive impact but when you change the context a little, he did contribute to Motherwell's survival last season and did not have the best of fortune with injuries at the time. 

[Dossertillidie2]

10 hours ago, star sail said:

I think this is a really good point you have made. It reminds me of the McGhee/ Gannon/ Brown era.

McGhee had a very successful spell but had left the club with a threadbare squad.

Jim Gannon arrived and did possibly the most impressive squad rebuild in Motherwell history.

When Gannon left, Craig Brown inherited a very strong playing squad.

Gannon is a very devisive character amongst the Well support but he actually had a very positive impact on Motherwell's success at that time. Let's not forget that Motherwell qualified for Europe that season via the Fair Play award, thanks to Gannon's philosophy on how the game should be played.

I made a comment last night that Hammell is possibly the only manager in recent times not to have made a positive impact but when you change the context a little, he did contribute to Motherwell's survival last season and did not have the best of fortune with injuries at the time. 

I think it depends how you evaluate his impact. He came in and served 7 months and in that time cleared out deadwood like ojala (who was reported to be on a crazy contract by our levels), Morris and got money for sol. Brought in players like Penney/furlong/butcher/Casey/Mckinstry/Mandron/blaney who I’m told were his own signings and not from his head of scouting and played youth like Johnstone/Spiers /dunnachie /miller 

I was confident with the signings we desperety needed and made he would have kept us up no problem. We just needed to show a bit of faith this time last year. He Showed enough for me in the style of football that was initially played that with a full summer window to implement more youth and more signings of his own, clearing out the likes of mugabi/lamie/sod/shields etc who shouldn’t be near our squad that we would have had an  exciting future but we were too impatient

my fear is impatience once again will stop kettlewell being able to do the same. Although I do have my doubts about the system he’s playing being adaptable to the players he’s signed in the summer (ie no wingers/width to change to 4-4-2 /4-3-3 in games 

 

 

[wellfan]

I find it interesting that Kettlewell sent Frail out to do his pre-match presser. Maybe there's nothing in it, as number two's do this sporadically. However, it was noticeable that Frail kept talking about the 50% win rate, which is excellent to be fair, but it's the feast or famine that's irking the fans. You could win every game one season and lose every game the following season. The former will not prevent the latter from leading to a manager being emptied. The here and now is the most important, and it's not good enough. As I said previously, I'm not calling for his head, but I think he'll be a dead man walking should we lose tonight. 

[David]

16 hours ago, grizzlyg said:

I just feel different with SK. Won 15 out of 22 so deserves chance to turn things around 

I don't think that's the way to be looking at it though. Him sitting on a 15 wins from 22 record means nothing. What matters is how he's done this season. And as others have alluded to, this is him on his first full season with his own players. 

As I said already, our form for this season after the preliminary league cup games stands at 3 wins, 2 draws, and 7 losses. 12 goals scored, 18 conceded.

So he has a 25% win rate. 

Last season he reaped the benefits of the players that Hammell brought in.

15 hours ago, davkel said:

The manager didn’t get any of the VV money ….

He got the wages Van Veen was on though to offer to another player.

[wellfan]

2 hours ago, David said:

He got the wages Van Veen was on though to offer to another player.

Which he squandered on Obika, Wilkinson, Bair, and Shaw. We've also saved money on attackers' wages by punting Sheilds and putting Mahon, Tierney, and Ferrie out on loan. You could also add McKinstry's wage to that list. I get the need to cut the wage bill and not directly replace players,  which has been done. But, Biereth aside, Kettlewell has absolutely pissed the KVV+ wage up the wall. 

[Yoshi-1991]

Off you fuck clueless

[MJC]

Time to go. No two ways about it.

We won’t replace him with anyone who will change things for the better in the long run but Stuart Kettlewell is done for us. Seven defeats out of eight following the utter shite he signed in the summer can’t result in anything else I’m afraid.

[Motherwellfc1991]

Haven’t posted on here in a long time and didn’t buy a season ticket this year  and have only been to one game this season. The main reason for this is in my opinion our board of directors allowed our prize asset to leave for an absolute pittance and A blind man could see we would be in a sorry state if we didn’t replace him. I get he wanted to go but why was he allowed to leave for the first offer in the summer at less than half his market value - who sanctioned this and thought it was acceptable . As a support we seemed to just  accept it and go down the usual happy clappy , great wee club , welcome to the rollercoaster mentality that is part of the reason we are where we are again this year come November.

That sale was the start of an odds on downward spiral . Not getting the market value for a 29 goal striker has led to our manager having a shoe string budget and signing a load of dross and getting them playing alongside the a lot of dross from last season. Yes he’s signed shite but that’s the general financial market he had to deal in due to the lack of funds on offer and the shite bag approach from our Board on the KVV sale was the catalyst for now having a squad bursting with dross footballers. 

Kettlewell also lost Johnson , Furlong , Goss from last season alongside KVV and butcher has only just returned - they were arguably his best 5 players during last seasons  miracle survival under him so In some ways he has had the rug pulled well and truly from under him by the board.

That said one point out of 24 would nearly get any manager sacked at most levels and he has signed a lot of sub standard players , played a formation in my eyes to allow his two golden boys in spittal and Paton to feature most weeks and the small highlights I’ve seen we appear devoid of ideas belief and any attacking threat. 
 

I don’t believe any manager can change this habit with the squad of players we have and the first change needs to come at board level with some cash for a couple of better players but January might be too late . If we don’t have cash then I revert back to the start of this rant - why the fuck did we sell KVV for such a small fee. 
 

Would a Moult or a Fletcher have made a difference - of course they would but if you believe some from within the club they both wanted to come but we didn’t want to take the risk or lay out the cash - just look where that has left us.

Our  bowling club mentality board need to stand up and be counted but I don’t think they’ve got it in them- the silence from them is continuously deafening . 

 

 

 

 

[grizzlyg]

I am not a happy clapper and have been critical of players and previous managers but I believe we need to stand by SK and give him time to turn things round.    Yes he has made mistakes, of course he has but deserves chance to change our fortune.

Players need hard look at themselves but at same time we have had 6 defeats but the 2 draws we were 2 goals down and fought back.    

Saturday is another big game and one we can certainly win.  Hopefully team changes as we know there are players that shouldn't be in that starting line up just now.

Let's all rally behind the management and players.   Have said it before,  if you have an atmosphere where fans are on everyones back it only benefits the opposition and who in their right mind wants to see that annoying git Naismith happy..... exactly

COYW

[Alpha1886]

43 minutes ago, Motherwellfc1991 said:

Haven’t posted on here in a long time and didn’t buy a season ticket this year  and have only been to one game this season. The main reason for this is in my opinion our board of directors allowed our prize asset to leave for an absolute pittance and A blind man could see we would be in a sorry state if we didn’t replace him. I get he wanted to go but why was he allowed to leave for the first offer in the summer at less than half his market value - who sanctioned this and thought it was acceptable . As a support we seemed to just  accept it and go down the usual happy clappy , great wee club , welcome to the rollercoaster mentality that is part of the reason we are where we are again this year come November.

That sale was the start of an odds on downward spiral . Not getting the market value for a 29 goal striker has led to our manager having a shoe string budget and signing a load of dross and getting them playing alongside the a lot of dross from last season. Yes he’s signed shite but that’s the general financial market he had to deal in due to the lack of funds on offer and the shite bag approach from our Board on the KVV sale was the catalyst for now having a squad bursting with dross footballers. 

Kettlewell also lost Johnson , Furlong , Goss from last season alongside KVV and butcher has only just returned - they were arguably his best 5 players during last seasons  miracle survival under him so In some ways he has had the rug pulled well and truly from under him by the board.

That said one point out of 24 would nearly get any manager sacked at most levels and he has signed a lot of sub standard players , played a formation in my eyes to allow his two golden boys in spittal and Paton to feature most weeks and the small highlights I’ve seen we appear devoid of ideas belief and any attacking threat. 
 

I don’t believe any manager can change this habit with the squad of players we have and the first change needs to come at board level with some cash for a couple of better players but January might be too late . If we don’t have cash then I revert back to the start of this rant - why the fuck did we sell KVV for such a small fee. 
 

Would a Moult or a Fletcher have made a difference - of course they would but if you believe some from within the club they both wanted to come but we didn’t want to take the risk or lay out the cash - just look where that has left us.

Our  bowling club mentality board need to stand up and be counted but I don’t think they’ve got it in them- the silence from them is continuously deafening . 

 

 

 

 

Surely 2 out of 24? 

[wellfan]

Dead man walking.

[Spiderpig]

58 minutes ago, Motherwellfc1991 said:

 

why the fuck did we sell KVV for such a small fee. 

 

 

 

 

Because that was the best offer we got for him, we could have stuck a £5 million price tag on him, but nobody would have paid it, the reported £700k was all he was worth.

KVV was a 1 season wonder who no longer wanted to be at Fir park so we took the best offer and I suspect the only one we got for him, and probably made a profit on him.

[Orinoco]

Modern life is rubbish eh. People don't have any patience anymore and everything needs to happen now for their own benefit and apparent well being. Social media helps the minority to whip up a crisis, when in the past it was a blip.  Club success anywhere rarely happens overnight and managers need time to build a team, especially clubs who don't have much money.  Every teams fans forum, say the same. Sack. The manager as he's hopeless etc etc. Perhaps we can be different for once and our fan base can be a bit more realistic about our level in the game and support the manager/players.

[grizzlyg]

1 hour ago, Orinoco said:

Modern life is rubbish eh. People don't have any patience anymore and everything needs to happen now for their own benefit and apparent well being. Social media helps the minority to whip up a crisis, when in the past it was a blip.  Club success anywhere rarely happens overnight and managers need time to build a team, especially clubs who don't have much money.  Every teams fans forum, say the same. Sack. The manager as he's hopeless etc etc. Perhaps we can be different for once and our fan base can be a bit more realistic about our level in the game and support the manager/players.

Great post

[Yabba's Turd]

On 11/6/2023 at 7:04 PM, Dossertillidie2 said:

How was Hammell’s situation different?

Depends on the toxicity levels within the building I'd say.

[Wellsince1976]

9 hours ago, grizzlyg said:

I am not a happy clapper and have been critical of players and previous managers but I believe we need to stand by SK and give him time to turn things round.    Yes he has made mistakes, of course he has but deserves chance to change our fortune.

Players need hard look at themselves but at same time we have had 6 defeats but the 2 draws we were 2 goals down and fought back.    

Saturday is another big game and one we can certainly win.  Hopefully team changes as we know there are players that shouldn't be in that starting line up just now.

Let's all rally behind the management and players.   Have said it before,  if you have an atmosphere where fans are on everyones back it only benefits the opposition and who in their right mind wants to see that annoying git Naismith happy..... exactly

COYW

Absolutely spot on 100%. We can`t keep on changing managers every 12 months. It`s pointless and doesn`t install any kind of stability in the club. Kettlewell needs to get some money in January - and spend it wisely.

[MJC]

“And spend it wisely”

Well that’s the thing isn’t it? Can he spend money wisely? Will he be able to? On evidence so far it doesn’t look too promising that he can be trusted to and given that we need to bring in at least one forward who is capable of putting them ball in the net as that could be the difference between relegation and staying up then it’s going to be a big transfer window for him and us.

[Dossertillidie2]

3 hours ago, Yabba's Turd said:

Depends on the toxicity levels within the building I'd say.

I think you have alluded to unrest in the camp before under Hammell . From where I see it he began the clear out that was badly needed after Alexander. And if telling Sod/morris/Ojala/mugabi/Maguire/fox and sol that they were miles off it and could look for clubs elsewhere then I think few could argue. Natural that when you tell a few home truths to folk they won’t like it!

From what I was told by a director, he was given budget which was pulled after his first few successful games and told he could use it if need be in Jan, but then was told in Oct he would have to vastly reduce wage bill. No coincidence that when those convos happened with players around that time that certain players chucked it

we make assumptions as fans but when you hear what people are dealing with and working under then it gives a whole new view on a situation

 

i have no doubt ketts right now is being told the same thing and will have to work to do the same or in a more difficult sense clear out some of the players which are failing him now ie Shaw 

being a Motherwell manager isn’t easy and you need everyone and everything thing at the club aligned. At times like this ketts needs the backing of the board to come out and back him both publicly and financially in Jan. Or we have another rinse and repeat story on our hands again which has every chance will be repeated again a year in Jan with the next manager 

[Spit_It_Out]

1 hour ago, Dossertillidie2 said:

I think you have alluded to unrest in the camp before under Hammell . From where I see it he began the clear out that was badly needed after Alexander. And if telling Sod/morris/Ojala/mugabi/Maguire/fox and sol that they were miles off it and could look for clubs elsewhere then I think few could argue. Natural that when you tell a few home truths to folk they won’t like it!

From what I was told by a director, he was given budget which was pulled after his first few successful games and told he could use it if need be in Jan, but then was told in Oct he would have to vastly reduce wage bill. No coincidence that when those convos happened with players around that time that certain players chucked it

we make assumptions as fans but when you hear what people are dealing with and working under then it gives a whole new view on a situation

 

i have no doubt ketts right now is being told the same thing and will have to work to do the same or in a more difficult sense clear out some of the players which are failing him now ie Shaw 

being a Motherwell manager isn’t easy and you need everyone and everything thing at the club aligned. At times like this ketts needs the backing of the board to come out and back him both publicly and financially in Jan. Or we have another rinse and repeat story on our hands again which has every chance will be repeated again a year in Jan with the next manager 

I back Kettlewell but he’s adventures in the transfer market for contracted players has been so so poor that’s what the worry is for me.Nobody is going to take the likes off Blair,Wilkinson and Obika off our hands in a hurry they are here potentially for another year and half that in itself is alarming.Bringing in a midfielder that clearly he doesn’t fancy to sit on the bench is a bad use of funds aswell I see no reason why we signed Zdravkovski that’s another pay off happening.

The loans(apart from Shaw)has been decent but when you can’t get the players contracted to the club right then doesn’t bode well for me.

Sure it’s a hit or miss but Kettlewell has had a whole lot of misses.

[mfc]

It was a miracle the amount of dross that was still under contract that we managed to move on over the summer,to then go and bring in what we did and then retain the likes of obika and o'donnell has set us back and prevented us building on the decent feel good factor on how we finished last season.davor is a mystery,the midfield were out on the feet last night but yet he can't get a look in,it's safe to say he will be odds on to leave in january with hopefully others to follow.

[Kmcalpin]

Harri Kampmann Mk2? 

Can do half a job in getting rid of deadwood but not the other half of signing decent replacements. 

[wunderwell]

39 minutes ago, Spit_It_Out said:

I back Kettlewell but he’s adventures in the transfer market for contracted players has been so so poor that’s what the worry is for me.Nobody is going to take the likes off Blair,Wilkinson and Obika off our hands in a hurry they are here potentially for another year and half that in itself is alarming.Bringing in a midfielder that clearly he doesn’t fancy to sit on the bench is a bad use of funds aswell I see no reason why we signed Zdravkovski that’s another pay off happening.

The loans(apart from Shaw)has been decent but when you can’t get the players contracted to the club right then doesn’t bode well for me.

Sure it’s a hit or miss but Kettlewell has had a whole lot of misses.

But the question remains, as it does in most football clubs nowadays, who is signing the players?

I don't doubt the manager has partial involvement but not wholly so......

We employ someone to identify players. That's their sole role.

[David]

3 minutes ago, wunderwell said:

We employ someone to identify players. That's their sole role.

And we employ a manager to have final say on who is signed. So he'll be rubber-stamping those deals, unless we think that the club are buying players and just telling Kettlewell to like it or lump it?

[mfc]

16 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

Harri Kampmann Mk2? 

Can do half a job in getting rid of deadwood but not the other half of signing decent replacements. 

Good comparison there mate,there's definitely shades of kampmann in our summer recruitment.

[Fergie79]

I got the feeling during summer transfer window we were outbid on or couldn't agree a deal with our main transfer targets and had to make do with some bodies that would actually sign for us....I reckon what we had planned and what we actually got was totally different at the end of the window....as such can't blame SK too much, reckon he needs until after next summer's transfer window to have a squad more or less as planned....defo a work in progress and not easy work at that.