Motherwell v Ross County 28/10/2023

[SteelmaninOZ]

Thanks Tex

the gaffer says 

 

[texanwellfan]

11 hours ago, Mad Dog said:

It was a good tackle, got the ball cleanly. It's the handball for their first goal that we should be questioning.

Accidental hand ball in lead up to goal is no longer an offense and I don’t think it was deliberate hand ball. 

[wellfan]

On 10/26/2023 at 9:24 PM, wellfan said:

Given the extended break, anything less than a draw will be worrying. 

 

Glad we scraped the draw, but that was absolute dugmeat. Barring the final five minutes, that was honestly one of the worst performances I've seen in 4 decades. Five games on the bounce without a win now. 

Bair and Shaw should never start again. Utterly useless. Wilkinson is also shite, but at least he grabbed a goal. Whoever signed those three (probably the same idiot who re-signed Obika) should be taken out the back and shot. 

Spencer is wasted on the left, and it defies logic that Kettlewell doesn't play one of our better players in his natural position. Noticeable that Gent came on and was a bomb scare. 

The midfield three function better as a four, so it's good that Miller is back for the next game. Davor must be plotting his way back to the Mediterranean as I write this. 

Mugabi and Casey were crap, but I assume Butcher starts the next game, and Blaney might get the nod soon aswell. 

It's also absolutely terrifying that our entire hopes hinge on a 17-year-old boy (Miller) and a loanee (Biereth), who was outstanding. He's a born winner and several of our regulars would do well to take note of his attitude. 

Kettlewell talks a good talk, although it's mainly word soup, but I now feel that he is very much being found out now that he doesn't have the likes of KVV to bail us out. His plan B yesterday was to employ chaos theory, which was a result of him waiting too long to change things after we went one down. 

With four games coming in quick succession, we must win at least 2 of them to restart our season. If not, and as the crowd suggested yesterday, the negativity will only intensify. 

In summary, Kettlewell is now very much under pressure, particularly if he doesn't learn from this game, and recent team selection would suggest he hasn't learned anything. Hanging his hat on the likes of Bair is fucking embarrassing and he needs to apologise to us for persevering with that level of nonsense. It's unacceptable at this level. Does he think we enjoy paying our money to watch his diddy experiments and panic signings fail?! That alone could see him lose his job come January. 

All in all, it's just not good enough. 1 point from 15. 

 

 

[FirParkCornerExile]

Utter Dross today, took the manager far to long to see his team selection wasnt working , we got out of jail. I suspect we will be better when Biereth , Butcher and Miller are all back in the team. We are fortunate the rest of the league are pish right now too. However with everyone near 4th or 9th the next few weeks will start to see the league develop into a more defined pattern. The next few games will give us a chance to be in the upper half as the league settles into December. Next 4 games Aberdeen, Kilmarnock  St Jonstone and Hearts. Id say anything less than 7 points will see us down among the dead men again. Right now not confident we will get any more than 7. 

[MJC]

Wilkinson and Biereth need to be our striking partnership going forward, we and the manager just need to pray that Mika stays fit. That performance from Shaw and Bair yesterday should ensure that neither start again unless absolutely necessary. I would even look at recalling Mark Ferrie from his loan ahead of playing either of those two again.

Things are definitely starting to look grim. That was a must win game yesterday. Off the back of four straight defeats a home game against Ross County is one we should be winning, I don’t care if anyone thinks that sounds ‘entitled’ or ‘Old Firm-ish’ or any of that nonsense. We should be beating Ross County at home, end of. And yet we were fortunate to scrape a draw in the end. That’s just not good enough. 
 

Looking at our upcoming fixtures I just don’t see a win coming. We will lose to Aberdeen on Wednesday, then we’ve got Killie on that shitey pitch of theirs next week so we won’t win there either. Then St.Johnstone in Perth on a Tuesday night. I think that’s got 0-0 written all over it and then we will lose to Hearts at home before going into the international break. And then we return with a trip to Parkhead. 

Grim and bleak right enough.

[wellsince75]

I agree with the comments that Bair & Shaw aren't good enough.Also the comments that better players should play in their natural position eg Spencer. 

With our current crop of fit players I'm less than convinced that the 5-3-2 works.  

Defensively Having Butcher, Casey, McGinn and Spencer all make sense.  Not sold on S'OD as he's not pushing forward enough.

Midfield Paton, Miller, Spittall & Slattery generally does work - with 2 pushing forward and 2 holding. 

Upfront Mika if fit works- and that's your lot. 

So in conclusion any formation that has 3 in midfield with our current crop of players isn't a great idea.

In essence the 5-4-1 or even 4-4-2 type formation suits our current team.  

[wellsince75]

5 minutes ago, MJC said:

Grim and bleak right enough.

If Grim and Bleak can play left back or centre forward we should sign them. 

[pretzel]

3 hours ago, texanwellfan said:

Accidental hand ball in lead up to goal is no longer an offense and I don’t think it was deliberate hand ball. 

I was wondering what the deal was with that as I could see from the opposite end of the pitch it was a clear hand ball. On Sportscene, Kettlewell mentioned the explanation that was given to him was that it had to be the scorer that done it for it to have been ruled out. Quite frustrating as the guy handling it managed to control it nicely with his hand in great view of the ref and lino before setting up Brophy. 

As for the game, it was frustrating for the best part. I don't know how many crosses we put in that evaded everyone unchallenged. 

I thought that we have done decent defensively for the best part this season but we should have been a goal down early yesterday and the goals we did eventually lose were horrific. It's certainly a learning curve for the young man but while Gent looks decent going forward some of his defending leaves a lot to be desired. 

It was great to see Mika back, another goal and another assistant and he's not even played 90 minutes. Delighted as well for the young Luca Ross. 

I thought Simon Murray got away with a lot yesterday, barging into the back of players with no intention of playing the ball. I know he was trying to shut up shop but it was a bit bold of Malky to withdraw the two players that were causing us problems. 

Another annoyance was Spencer getting booked for genuinely trying to the head the ball. The three or four head knocks in injury time were laughable as they tried to eek out the seconds. 

 

 

[Big Wispy Flossy]

A lot of talk about gents role in their third goal yesterday and nobody while argue he should’ve done much better.  But he was hung out to dry by mugabi and Casey, the latter in particular.

Casey seems to have been taught at the Colin hendry school of defending, chasing the ball all over the park. Looks great when it works but incredibly foolish when not. There was no reason for him to be so positionally poor at that goal. That said he’s been more good than otherwise so will cut him some slack. Butcher must start on Wednesday if remotely fit.

also thought Kelly was poor at first goal.

[Great Balls of Shire]

1 hour ago, wellfan said:

Glad we scraped the draw, but that was absolute dugmeat. Barring the final five minutes, that was honestly one of the worst performances I've seen in 4 decades. Five games on the bounce without a win now. 

Bair and Shaw should never start again. Utterly useless. Wilkinson is also shite, but at least he grabbed a goal. Whoever signed those three (probably the same idiot who re-signed Obika) should be taken out the back and shot. 

Spencer is wasted on the left, and it defies logic that Kettlewell doesn't play one of our better players in his natural position. Noticeable that Gent came on and was a bomb scare. 

The midfield three function better as a four, so it's good that Miller is back for the next game. Davor must be plotting his way back to the Mediterranean as I write this. 

Mugabi and Casey were crap, but I assume Butcher starts the next game, and Blaney might get the nod soon aswell. 

It's also absolutely terrifying that our entire hopes hinge on a 17-year-old boy (Miller) and a loanee (Biereth), who was outstanding. He's a born winner and several of our regulars would do well to take note of his attitude. 

Kettlewell talks a good talk, although it's mainly word soup, but I now feel that he is very much being found out now that he doesn't have the likes of KVV to bail us out. His plan B yesterday was to employ chaos theory, which was a result of him waiting too long to change things after we went one down. 

With four games coming in quick succession, we must win at least 2 of them to restart our season. If not, and as the crowd suggested yesterday, the negativity will only intensify. 

In summary, Kettlewell is now very much under pressure, particularly if he doesn't learn from this game, and recent team selection would suggest he hasn't learned anything. Hanging his hat on the likes of Bair is fucking embarrassing and he needs to apologise to us for persevering with that level of nonsense. It's unacceptable at this level. Does he think we enjoy paying our money to watch his diddy experiments and panic signings fail?! That alone could see him lose his job come January. 

All in all, it's just not good enough. 1 point from 15. 

 

 

You are obviously big on hyperbole,  " one of the worst in 4 decades" , you must have missed a fair chunk of games.

 

[Great Balls of Shire]

13 hours ago, texanwellfan said:

I was expecting more from Shaw today but perhaps get more from him playing alongside Biereth. 

I wasn't really , he's bounced about 4 Scottish clubs now without doing a lot, that I know of, tbh though I don't know what the fans of previous clubs have said, I just haven't been aware of him doing much or looking a threat

[SteelmaninOZ]

He has been missed 

 

[steelman1991]

11 minutes ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

You are obviously big on hyperbole,  " one of the worst in 4 decades" , you must have missed a fair chunk of games.

 

He's actually only 10 😉

[Grant]

Gent’s defending for their 3rd is criminal. Looked awful at the time but watched it back and it’s worse! Not wanting to actually put in a tackle incase he gets hurt/gets his kit dirty I think!

[Kmcalpin]

One particular disappointing aspect yesterday was the quality of our corner kicks.  They simply weren't causing County any problems. I know some of you have been banging on about this for some time. Do we practice them in training?

[wellfan]

33 minutes ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

You are obviously big on hyperbole,  " one of the worst in 4 decades" , you must have missed a fair chunk of games.

 

Some top quality engagement/discussion there. 

[grizzlyg]

15 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

One particular disappointing aspect yesterday was the quality of our corner kicks.  They simnply weren't causing County any problems. I know some of you have been banging on about this for some time. Do we practice them in training?

The corner kick when they all lined up like queueing for a bus to then find Spittal play a short corner then almost boot it out for a throw in was laughable .  I like Spittal and the ball he played through for Mika for penalty was excellent but he should be nowhere near taking corners for us

[wellfan]

25 minutes ago, steelman1991 said:

He's actually only 10 😉

It's perhaps worth mentioning that I was born in the 80s, which is very different to most on here who seem to have been born yesterday. 

[Great Balls of Shire]

28 minutes ago, wellfan said:

Some top quality engagement/discussion there. 

Thanks, it's a strong point of mine

[Ya Bezzer!]

I said before the match I wanted to see a strong start and I got a dreadful start.  Ross County really should have been three up in the first ten minutes.  We really need to make stronger starts to matches because we are giving the initiative to the oppositions and if we keep doing that we are going to be out of games early on.

Lennon Miller was noticeable in his absence and the midfield really didn't work yesterday.   I think 'officially' it was a 5-3-2 but Spittal was trying to link with the forwards and that really only left two in there and Slattery was completely anonymous yesterday.  I've said it before but Slattery is an AM, he cannot performance as a centre midfielder or someone with defensive duties.  

Although we lost 3 goals I don't think we were defensively too bad, the main difference in the teams was Ross County's radical idea to actually shot at goal.  Brophy and Murray's goals were both well taken and some good propaganda for the idea forward players should be finishers.  You'd think as an idea that concept should be obvious but.....  The third goal though was poor from us and we need to bring up Dan Casey.  The guy can be an asset and he has good qualities but his positional discipline is all over the place and he really needs to screw the heid a bit.  I actually thought he was to blame for the losing goal against Celtic when he was right where he needed to be and then for reasons unknown ran across the goal out of the area the ball was played into.  Even the goal he scored earlier in the season, why on earth was he there to score it?  I think from a coaching perspective Casey is a 'spare the rod, spoil the child' type.  Kettlewell really needs to keep Casey under firm reigns to get the best out of him.

Also from a defensive point of view our full backs are, and have been, an issue for a while.  O'Donnell shouldn't have been given a new contract and a succession of loan players over the past couple of seasons hasn't helped either.  Spencer was probably our best player going into the second half but as others have said he's a right back playing left back.

Upfront I've seen enough of Bair to come to the conclusion he's a space filler and that's about it.  He's a big guy and he doesn't even win headers. However I think some or even most here are being harsh on Shaw.  He's had no pre season and started one match and some folk are saying he should never play again.  Come on.  Not saying he's the answer and I'd play Wilkinson and Biereth in front of him but for me he gets into positions and had one of our few efforts at goal yesterday.

On Biereth, this guy is miles above Scottish Premiership level.  His pace, his drive, his ability can transform our season if he stays fit and other managers don't send out an assassin to deal with the guy.

[wellfan]

12 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

However I think some or even most here are being harsh on Shaw.  He's had no pre season and started one match and some folk are saying he should never play again.  Come on

There was a point in the second half yesterday where he got the ball at his feet in the box and instead of shooting he proceeded to run towards the O’Donnell stand with the ball. That suggests to me that he doesn't have the strikers instinct and no amount of preseasons could fix that. He was a panic signing and that's it. 

[Great Balls of Shire]

54 minutes ago, wellfan said:

Some top quality engagement/discussion there. 

Why debate with you,? Describing players as   " dugmeat" ," terrifying" " shite"  and a few others,

Also it's not even close to being one of the worst in the last 4 decades imo

you need more measured language and then people can debate with you ....here I am debating with you tho 😂

[Great Balls of Shire]

37 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

I said before the match I wanted to see a strong start and I got a dreadful start.  Ross County really should have been three up in the first ten minutes.  We really need to make stronger starts to matches because we are giving the initiative to the oppositions and if we keep doing that we are going to be out of games early on.

Lennon Miller was noticeable in his absence and the midfield really didn't work yesterday.   I think 'officially' it was a 5-3-2 but Spittal was trying to link with the forwards and that really only left two in there and Slattery was completely anonymous yesterday.  I've said it before but Slattery is an AM, he cannot performance as a centre midfielder or someone with defensive duties.  

Although we lost 3 goals I don't think we were defensively too bad, the main difference in the teams was Ross County's radical idea to actually shot at goal.  Brophy and Murray's goals were both well taken and some good propaganda for the idea forward players should be finishers.  You'd think as an idea that concept should be obvious but.....  The third goal though was poor from us and we need to bring up Dan Casey.  The guy can be an asset and he has good qualities but his positional discipline is all over the place and he really needs to screw the heid a bit.  I actually thought he was to blame for the losing goal against Celtic when he was right where he needed to be and then for reasons unknown ran across the goal out of the area the ball was played into.  Even the goal he scored earlier in the season, why on earth was he there to score it?  I think from a coaching perspective Casey is a 'spare the rod, spoil the child' type.  Kettlewell really needs to keep Casey under firm reigns to get the best out of him.

Also from a defensive point of view our full backs are, and have been, an issue for a while.  O'Donnell shouldn't have been given a new contract and a succession of loan players over the past couple of seasons hasn't helped either.  Spencer was probably our best player going into the second half but as others have said he's a right back playing left back.

Upfront I've seen enough of Bair to come to the conclusion he's a space filler and that's about it.  He's a big guy and he doesn't even win headers. However I think some or even most here are being harsh on Shaw.  He's had no pre season and started one match and some folk are saying he should never play again.  Come on.  Not saying he's the answer and I'd play Wilkinson and Biereth in front of him but for me he gets into positions and had one of our few efforts at goal yesterday.

On Biereth, this guy is miles above Scottish Premiership level.  His pace, his drive, his ability can transform our season if he stays fit and other managers don't send out an assassin to deal with the guy.

Re Murray and Brophy goals, I don't think any of the forwards we started with yesterday have got the ability to shoot from distance like that, they were both cracking strikes TBF 

[Spiderpig]

6 hours ago, texanwellfan said:

Accidental hand ball in lead up to goal is no longer an offense and I don’t think it was deliberate hand ball. 

I don't think they have such a thing as accidental handball these days, it's judged on the position of the hand/arm is it in an unnatural position away from the body etc, so if yesterdays incident met the criteria then it should have been a foul and therefore no goal.

But given the amateur hour shit show that VAR is in Scotland I'm not surprised it wasn't picked up.

[wellfan]

28 minutes ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

Why debate with you,? Describing players as   " dugmeat" ," terrifying" " shite"  and a few others,

Also it's not even close to being one of the worst in the last 4 decades imo

you need more measured language and then people can debate with you ....here I am debating with you tho 😂

Oh dear, the naughty language police have arrived.