That Old Chestnut - Do We Move Or Do We Stay

[weeyin]

Timing is certainly key. Relatively speaking the Fir Park site was probably worth more 25 years ago too.

I'd love it if we could find a way to finance new facilities, but Falkirk is a great example of the challenges to fund that and be able to build a complete stadium. 

 

[joewarkfanclub]

13 minutes ago, weeyin said:

Timing is certainly key. Relatively speaking the Fir Park site was probably worth more 25 years ago too.

I'd love it if we could find a way to finance new facilities, but Falkirk is a great example of the challenges to fund that and be able to build a complete stadium. 

 

Not to mention to stay competitive enough to stay in the top flight....

[weeyin]

55 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Not to mention to stay competitive enough to stay in the top flight....

And if we sold Fir Park we'd likely need a temporary home to play in while a new stadium was being built as it's unlikely any buyer is going to wait a few years. 

[dennyc]

10 hours ago, weeyin said:

It's not about the location, although transport etc. is important. It's about the quality of the new facilities.

Do we want what Falkirk, St Mirren or St Johnstone have? Even that would be a stretch financially, but I find it pretty uninspiring - probably the opposite of a Luddite, as I'd want something more modern. 

 

I went to the Falkirk Dundee Utd game and was impressed with what I saw in the main stand. An excellent view, spacious seats, well under cover and catering facilities that put Fir Park to shame. Think a smaller version of the Hampden set up but still with several kiosks and a Club shop. Easily accessible and no lengthy queues blocking off toilet access. Talking of which, numerous toilets, wide corridors and staircases. So no crushing at full time despite a full house. 
Hospitality on an upper tier but not infringing on us peasants. Stacks of pre bookable car parking for home and away fans. A good income generator I imagine. Did take a wee while to exit the car park though but nowhere near as frustrating as at Perth. 

Cannot comment on what the away stand offers fans as I was on holiday when we last played there. 

As a POD season ticket holder, the set up I saw at Falkirk was far superior to the facilities on offer at Fir Park. Both the POD and Hunter Stands need a massive upgrade and whether that is possible given space limitations and likely disruption I have my doubts. If it can be done, fair enough. Let’s see what the study reveals. 

Where Falkirk do fall down is in having stands on three sides only which does feel weird. Even worse than Accies in my opinion.   Why they have no stand on one side I have no idea. But other than that  I would happily move to such a Stadium. As you suggest, the quality of any new facility would have to be up to scratch but done correctly it would be fine. A site where neighbouring housing did not impact the construction of the stands would be a huge leap forward. 

[Big Stall]

Easy solution...... qualify for & have a good run in the champions league & we can finance a fair bit of whats being talked about ........ 🤣🤣

[Kmcalpin]

10 hours ago, weeyin said:

I'd love it if we could find a way to finance new facilities, but Falkirk is a great example of the challenges to fund that and be able to build a complete stadium. 

Easy. Just plough most of the cash into the team; neglect the stadium; and get someone else to substantially pay for a new one.   

[FirParkCornerExile]

10 hours ago, dennyc said:

I went to the Falkirk Dundee Utd game and was impressed with what I saw in the main stand. An excellent view, spacious seats, well under cover and catering facilities that put Fir Park to shame. Think a smaller version of the Hampden set up but still with several kiosks and a Club shop. Easily accessible and no lengthy queues blocking off toilet access. Talking of which, numerous toilets, wide corridors and staircases. So no crushing at full time despite a full house. 
Hospitality on an upper tier but not infringing on us peasants. Stacks of pre bookable car parking for home and away fans. A good income generator I imagine. Did take a wee while to exit the car park though but nowhere near as frustrating as at Perth. 

Cannot comment on what the away stand offers fans as I was on holiday when we last played there. 

As a POD season ticket holder, the set up I saw at Falkirk was far superior to the facilities on offer at Fir Park. Both the POD and Hunter Stands need a massive upgrade and whether that is possible given space limitations and likely disruption I have my doubts. If it can be done, fair enough. Let’s see what the study reveals. 

Where Falkirk do fall down is in having stands on three sides only which does feel weird. Even worse than Accies in my opinion.   Why they have no stand on one side I have no idea. But other than that  I would happily move to such a Stadium. As you suggest, the quality of any new facility would have to be up to scratch but done correctly it would be fine. A site where neighbouring housing did not impact the construction of the stands would be a huge leap forward. 

of the new builds , for smaller clubs in Scotland, Falkirks is probably the best but with the obvious down side of only three stands and open corners but the viewing positions are excellent.

[dennyc]

12 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

of the new builds , for smaller clubs in Scotland, Falkirks is probably the best but with the obvious down side of only three stands and open corners but the viewing positions are excellent.

I was pleasantly surprised. I kind of expected a heartless, concrete ground but not so. Still areas for improvement but a better experience than at other comparable new builds. Finance clearly defines what we could achieve but it will be interesting to learn how much a proper refitting of Fir Park would cost in comparison to a new build. Especially if the Local Authority was able to provide the land at no cost to MFC. Folk living in the area will know far better than me whether there is council land lying vacant which could be utilised. MFC are an asset the Authority should be proud of and willing to support.

I do understand that many fans have a sentimental outlook where Fir Park and our history is concerned.  I respect that view. But that approach by previous Boards has contributed to the situation we now find ourselves in. And to the increased cost of now finding a sustainable solution. 

[FirParkCornerExile]

17 minutes ago, dennyc said:

I was pleasantly surprised. I kind of expected a heartless, concrete ground but not so. Still areas for improvement but a better experience than at other comparable new builds. Finance clearly defines what we could achieve but it will be interesting to learn how much a proper refitting of Fir Park would cost in comparison to a new build. Especially if the Local Authority was able to provide the land at no cost to MFC. Folk living in the area will know far better than me whether there is council land lying vacant which could be utilised. MFC are an asset the Authority should be proud of and willing to support.

I do understand that many fans have a sentimental outlook where Fir Park and our history is concerned.  I respect that view. But that approach by previous Boards has contributed to the situation we now find ourselves in. And to the increased cost of now finding a sustainable solution. 

I agree Fir Park is a money pit and anything that lessens the money we have to pay for ground maintenance is welcome , as is the chance to have very good corporate facilities and avenues for raising more money 7 days a week, something for which Fir Park seems limited. 

[weeyin]

2 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

Easy. Just plough most of the cash into the team; neglect the stadium; and get someone else to substantially pay for a new one.   

I wonder if that will be one of the proposals from the feasibility study!

[Clackscat]

26 minutes ago, dennyc said:

I was pleasantly surprised. I kind of expected a heartless, concrete ground but not so. Still areas for improvement but a better experience than at other comparable new builds. Finance clearly defines what we could achieve but it will be interesting to learn how much a proper refitting of Fir Park would cost in comparison to a new build. Especially if the Local Authority was able to provide the land at no cost to MFC. Folk living in the area will know far better than me whether there is council land lying vacant which could be utilised. MFC are an asset the Authority should be proud of and willing to support.

I do understand that many fans have a sentimental outlook where Fir Park and our history is concerned.  I respect that view. But that approach by previous Boards has contributed to the situation we now find ourselves in. And to the increased cost of now finding a sustainable solution. 

The other thing to say about Falkirk is that the main stand is utilised daily, renting out offices and space to businesses on a daily or longer basis etc, so it also generates non match day revenue

[joewarkfanclub]

I wouldnt say Im not sentimentally attached to Fir Park as Ive been going there for over  50 years and will undoubtedly be a wrench if and when we have to leave.

However, Im also a pragmatist, so while it would he nice to have the finances to remain and modernise what we have on the existing site, Im also open to moving to a new site, and not necessarily Ravenscraig, although it is the obvious alternative and has the emotional attachment to the club by virtue of it being the site of the steelworks.

The deciding factor for me will always be the long term security of the club.

Which option best serves that best whilst allowing us to remain competitive on the pitch?

I guess the answer to that will be in the feasibility study.

Hopefully we will get the boards view in due course.....

[Spiderpig]

1 hour ago, Clackscat said:

The other thing to say about Falkirk is that the main stand is utilised daily, renting out offices and space to businesses on a daily or longer basis etc, so it also generates non match day revenue

Falkirk dont own the main stand its leased long term. They only own the other two stands, so i presume any non match day revenue goes to whatever organisation actually owns the stand, i think it was the local council at one point.

[0Neils40yarder]

17 hours ago, Spiderpig said:

I see the luddites are out in force tonight, we have two srands at Fir park that are not fit for purpose by todays standards and expectations from the paying public, bolting seats to old terracing and having people pay to sit on seats in the pod stained with pigeon crap, every 2nd or 3rd one broken, turnstyles that were modern the last time we won the league, unsafe congestion in public areas etc and people are getting teary eyed and sentimental about it, aye ok then.

Would you accept sub standard and or potentially unsafe conditions in a theatre, restaurant etc, football grounds are no different.

A luddite, by fuck!

To me, its not borne out of pure attachment that I want to stay at Fir Park, its the thought of what we end up with (and where) that is the over-riding factor for me. Ive not see any new build in Scotland, where I've thought 'my God, I wish this was ours'...not once.

The money required to finance a full new-build will surely make anything other than a 'Bill Barr' effort out of the question?

The way I see it, we should be pulling out all the stops to demolish and rebuild the main stand into a stand that suits our needs, something modern but functional. Hibs and Hearts managed it, with limited footprints, so why cant we?

 

15 hours ago, Clackscat said:

 

 

[santheman]

Interesting views and points.

My own take is that Im more sentimentally attached to old Fir Park in the days of terracing than what we have now probably because that era holds more good memories for me.

If we decided to up sticks it probably wouldn't bother me too much.

I thought at the time when Ravenscraig was being developed that this was the ideal opportunity if we were ever going to move from Fir Park by getting into bed with the council and private equity.

A fully integrated indoor sports facility and new ground with training facilities linked to a mini town centre with franchises like McDs etc all located in the same place with transport links.

Could still happen I suppose but I think the most cost effective solution is probably some kind of redevelopment on the current site.

[stv]

14 minutes ago, santheman said:

 

I thought at the time when Ravenscraig was being developed that this was the ideal opportunity if we were ever going to move from Fir Park by getting into bed with the council and private equity.

A fully integrated indoor sports facility and new ground with training facilities linked to a mini town centre with franchises like McDs etc all located in the same place with transport links.

Could still happen I suppose but I think the most cost effective solution is probably some kind of redevelopment on the current site.

Thank goodness that never happened the new park  the sports centre and the college would have been the only things there for last 20 years . Imagine going to that on a Saturday. No transport links materialised, no mini town centre as planned and still no houses. A white elephant of a site that will be lucky to be finished in the next 20 years if ever. Lets not forget all the poisonous stuff that's been buried on it over the years yet to be found.

[thewelllfan]

I think moving ground is only a matter of time the POD and John Hunter stands both need major renovation which can't happen due to things in the surrounding area that being said the cost of a new stadium while up keeping FP until it's ready would be a massive outlay I'm not sure the club can afford w/o massive player sales or us doing the unthinkable and winning the league/ending up in the CL group stages and using the £30M that brings to fund it. The talk since we sold David Turnbull for a club record fee is that we'd look to build a new training facility so I'm assuming there has been some form of groundwork done on that and could come to fruition in a few years time where that might be though I have no idea. The point about local business is fair but should we move that will likely create new businesses in that area.

[weeyin]

Forest Green Rovers, my local team when I lived in England, built a new stadium in 2003. It cost about 5.5 million in today's money.

It only has 2 stands (for about 5,000) capacity, so would cost a few more million to add the other two.

As part of the construction, they also built a gym, a leisure club,  a sauna, a pub and meeting facilities - so it's in use 7 days a week.

Because the owner is a bit of an eco-fanatic, it is a sustainable design with an organic football pitch,  and solar panels on the roof of the stadium to power 25 per cent of the stadium.

The pitch also collects rainwater to be recycled around the stadium and all waste cooking oil at the club is recycled into biofuel. The club introduced a solar powered 'MowBot' in April 2012 which cuts the grass on the pitch.

Local farmers use the grass cuttings from the stadium to condition their soil. The area outside the stadium has also been developed into a habitat for wildlife through the planting of wild flowers and native trees.

We might not need all the eco-features, but a 4 stand version something like that could be just the ticket.

(if they could replicate my favourite local pub, The Ram in Woodchester (400 years old, beer from the local brewery) they'd have a goldmine on their hands).

[Jonesy]

The only bit of land worth moving to Ravenscraig for is right behind the college, where the new railway bridge is and where Airbles Road is about to be extended through. That way everyone's pre/post match routines pretty much stay the same. You're more or less the same walk from the local pubs to there than you currently are to Fir Park. Anything other than that and you're talking a minimum 20 minute walk from a pub and at least 30 minutes from the train stations (probably minimum 40 minutes), with no transport links cutting through at all currently.

I had this conversation with a recently departed Society board member and his answer was "drive or get the bus", but if people are in the habit of walking to Fir Park or getting a pint before/after the game they're not all of a sudden en masse going to start driving every week and the only bus currently is a mini bus to the sport centre once an hour. Unless the club was to provide it for free at the time, but even then...

There's also the strong chance of missing out on that ideal bit of land and ending up in Carfin or closer to Cleland rather than Motherwell.

Not for me.