fatcalf Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 Many seem to overlook the fact that we already play half the league 4 times a season in any case. I would say most of those have noticed that fact which is why they're so against the proposal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cakes Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 I believe Doncaster has met with a number of fan groups and the upshot of these meetings is that he managed to persuade many of the merits behind this change. It would be good to see/read/hear what was said at these meetings. DosserJoe outlined it in a thread:LINK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 Before this debate was ongoing it was quite apparent to anyone on this forum that many Motherwell fans are/were hacked off and dropping attendances would prove that point. Reading these posts it almost appears as if some are looking for an excuse to walk away from football and if the top 10 SPL is that - it would be a shame. Hopefully most will continue to support the club regardless of the size of the league. I can't agree that it's an excuse to walk away from football. I think we need to differentiate here between looking for an excuse to chuck football, and something being the final straw. For a start, I don't understand why anyone would need an excuse to walk away from football. It's a game, it's supposed to be entertainment - and it's a bloody expensive interest. If someone feels they're not enjoying it, or they're not getting value for money, or they've got other things they could do on a Saturday, that's all the "excuses" they need - I don't for a second believe anyone is actually looking to the 10 team SPL as a good excuse to pack it in. The majority of human beings have plenty of interests, hobbies, and stuff they can use a Saturday for. I don't believe there are really that many folk who "live and breathe" football and, if there are, they really need to get out more. That's why stepping away from it isn't quite as big a wrench for a lot of us. When I post and say I'll be chucking it if this goes ahead, I don't do it as a threat with some sort of deluded belief it might have an effect, nor do I do out of some bizarre feeling of self-importance as though my decision to attend or not really interests anyone, not do I do it simply for the sake of moaning. Football's an interest, a hobby, some would say a passion - but there has to be a line somewhere. For different people the line will be at a different place - it appears for many that a feeling of being completely ignored, unappreciated and totally shafted by our own club is where that line comes into view. I have been a regular at Fir Park and away games since I was 5 and in that time I have put in a lot of time, energy and lots of money. I don't ask a lot in return - I don't expect silverware, or cup runs, I don't even expect SPL football if I'm honest and, in fact, a wee adventure in the First Division (as it is) would excite me a fair bit. But I still see being a football supporter as a bond, a contract if you will. If Motherwell Football Club pander to the other clubs (and I stress the IF, there's been no vote yet) then I will feel betrayed as a supporter and that contract will be null and void on the part of the club. I can't then turn up at games in a 10 team SPL pretending to be all happy and passionate when the club I love will have completely ruined it for me. It's pretty obvious from your posts that you can't quite comprehend people chucking (and that's not a dig, that's your position) but I think you have respect that people just don't want to be a part of it, rather than trying to claim it's some sort of agenda to find excuses to chuck it. Let's be honest here, without any doubt whatsoever there will be folk (maybe just a few, but they'll be there) reading this thread, thinking they're better than some posters - and that's on both sides of the divide. There will be fans who will be unable to comprehend not going to games in a 10 team SPL and will view those that have said they are chucking it with disappointment, they will view them as not being "true fans" (whatever that means) and will believe themselves to be "real" supporters. On the other side, there will be fans who will not stand for this shite, will not simply shrug their shoulders and plod along regardless, and will view those who will as being the very fans who's blind loyalty gives the clubs the freedom to shite all over us without response. There's no right or wrong, it's all opinion - but the fact that this has become the situation we now find ourselves in (both in terms of the Motherwell support, and Scottish football fans in general) sums up just how utterly ridiculous a situation this is. It'll be cup games and the odd league game for me, along with Scotland games. Going to see the 'Well playing in a league I was, along with 95% or so of football fans, staunchly against just doesn't appeal to me. Don't get me wrong, I'd love the vote to go tits up and for us to either remain with the 12 and look at the 14 more seriously (as it is a viable option, confirmed by Doncaster himself). But if it's to be 10 then so be it, I'll be gaining the gift of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBA Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 I stopped going to the games a couple of seasons ago, as i felt that the product was poor and i was sick of watching the same games week in, week out season after season. I had a season ticket for 7 seasons. I dont think the 10 team SPL is the answer, but i cannot see any alternative that will actually work. At the end of the day sky want the 4 old firm games a season; the rest they're not really that interested in. As somebody mentioned on the phone in tonight, only man u v liverpool had bigger viewing figures last season. I also feel the product is so poor because any decent player coming through in scotland can go to a league 1 or league 2 team down south and earn probably double what they would up here and who would blame them? look at the players who have left us in recent years lasley, hammell, clarkson and reynolds to name a few. There are loads of factors which has put scottish football in the state it is now, and i think it will take more of a league reconstruction to solve it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 deleted jam it, cant be bothered edit: others kinda got there anyway, Jay hits it closest, MFC are meant to be a club I'm no longer blindly investing in a club that continues to ignore the very people that make it so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 4th look at our pitches. They are a disgrace. Just watched the English highlights then watched the Scottish highlights. They are playing on bowling greens so they can actual stay on their feet and pass a ball. Our players fall on their arses every two seconds and couldn't pass water never mind a football. Premiership clubs have loads of money and can therefore afford to use lamps to grow grass during the winter. We can't because its enormously expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siebsbarmyarmy Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 Premiership clubs have loads of money and can therefore afford to use lamps to grow grass during the winter. We can't because its enormously expensive. It costs Celtic in the region of £500k plus a season to run those big sunbed things for their pitches! More depending on weather! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amber_nectar Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 Keep the 12 team league. 3 down, three up, each season. That would make both leagues more interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdalli10 Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 noticed this on P+B. FC Basel supporters enraged their game v FC Luzern had it's kick off time moved to accommodate the tennis, unfurl a banner and start chanting we'll decide when the game starts and then delay the match by launching hundreds of tennis ball on the pitch. Scottish Football fans could maybe take a lesson from them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amber_nectar Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 It costs Celtic in the region of £500k plus a season to run those big sunbed things for their pitches! More depending on weather! I am sure it costs us the same every season because we need to dig the feckin thing up every season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweed Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 There are loads of factors which has put scottish football in the state it is now, and i think it will take more of a league reconstruction to solve it. I wish more people would see this. 95% of the discussion and media focus has been on this and it is probably the least important part of the proposal. Its getting the distribution of wealth, length of season, timing of season, winter break, youth development, gate prices, insuring the financial penalty for relegation isn't armageddon right that will make or break Scottish football. Get that right then in time the league will develop into a better spectacle whether its ten, twelve or fourteen. But whatever we decide it needs to be left alone. CHanging the number of teams in the league every five to ten years doesn't help anyone for long term planning and in these days of financial meltdown teams need to do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweed Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 FC Basel supporters enraged their game v FC Luzern had it's kick off time moved to accommodate the tennis, unfurl a banner and start chanting we'll decide when the game starts and then delay the match by launching hundreds of tennis ball on the pitch. We could all throw tellies on the pitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amber_nectar Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 I wish more people would see this. 95% of the discussion and media focus has been on this and it is probably the least important part of the proposal. Its getting the distribution of wealth, length of season, timing of season, winter break, youth development, gate prices, insuring the financial penalty for relegation isn't armageddon right that will make or break Scottish football. Get that right then in time the league will develop into a better spectacle whether its ten, twelve or fourteen. But whatever we decide it needs to be left alone. CHanging the number of teams in the league every five to ten years doesn't help anyone for long term planning and in these days of financial meltdown teams need to do this. I have to agree. Keep the number of teams the same. Under 21 league that teams can play three over aged players in each game. More teams relegated and promoted. The split is ok. Under 12s into games for nothing when with a parent or guardian. 13 to 17 year olds £5 pounds each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaag Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 Can only echo the sentiments above really. Cup games and the very occasional league game for me if this goes through. I'd rather spend my time and money going to watch a junior team or just going to the pub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 I have to agree. Keep the number of teams the same. Under 21 league that teams can play three over aged players in each game. More teams relegated and promoted. The split is ok. Under 12s into games for nothing when with a parent or guardian. 13 to 17 year olds £5 pounds each. = huge financial hit for most clubs = no can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 I wish more people would see this. 95% of the discussion and media focus has been on this and it is probably the least important part of the proposal. Its getting the distribution of wealth, length of season, timing of season, winter break, youth development, gate prices, insuring the financial penalty for relegation isn't armageddon right that will make or break Scottish football. Get that right then in time the league will develop into a better spectacle whether its ten, twelve or fourteen. But whatever we decide it needs to be left alone. CHanging the number of teams in the league every five to ten years doesn't help anyone for long term planning and in these days of financial meltdown teams need to do this. I'm thinking quite a lot of people are aware that many of these points are in the background, but aren't deal breakers or deal makers whereas to many a ten team top flight is. The SPL aren't exactly promoting these other points either, and it seems to be all or nothing package I'm fairly aggrieved with this colt team nonsense, its an insult to the lower leagues, Killing off the reserve league has harmed Scottish football development but like the colt teams it wasnt enough to drive me away from football on its own Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 I'm fairly aggrieved with this colt team nonsense, its an insult to the lower leagues Seconded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star sail Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 Reading the comments on this thread and others like it, the depth of feeling against this 10 team league is as strong as any issue I can remember. The vast majority of fans from all SPL clubs are disillusioned by this and are openly voicing views that they will not be back or will at best pick and choose their games. We know for a fact that the powers that be at Motherwell will have read the comments on these boards. It would be foolish not to and yet they plan to press on regardless. This seems like suicide unless the SPL directors have decided that there is no future to having fans inside football grounds. I can see no other reason why the SPL would press on regardless of the fans opinion. The Motherwell Directors must have factored in that attendences of less than 3000 is worth the hit for the money that will come in from TV revenue. I think that there must be factors to this that as yet we know nothing about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 maybe they think it's just a load of bluster and they heard the same shit about the split and nothing came of it? i can understand people chucking it if they're not enjoying it, can't afford it or have something else to do but to chuck it because we'll be playing 9 teams 4 times rather than 5 teams 4 times and 6 teams 3 times seems mental to me. what's the difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bogsideloyal Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 Going to see the 'Well playing in a league I was, along with 95% or so of football fans, staunchly against just doesn't appeal to me. I would guess 95% of people don't really care if we change from a 12 team league to a 10 team league. I can understand why people would stop going to games if they felt they weren't enjoying it anymore, lack of money, work on a saturday, had to look after weans etc. But to stop going to games because St Mirren and Hamilton (probably) are dropping out the league? edit - steelboy beat me to it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star sail Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 maybe they think it's just a load of bluster and they heard the same shit about the split and nothing came of it? i can understand people chucking it if they're not enjoying it, can't afford it or have something else to do but to chuck it because we'll be playing 9 teams 4 times rather than 5 teams 4 times and 6 teams 3 times seems mental to me. what's the difference? I think the difference is that most fans now realise that this is last chance saloon. Lets not forget also that since the split attendances have dropped. Fans have been ignored for a long time now and they are voting with their feet. To completely ignore them again would be the last straw for a lot of fans and rightly so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me Bungo Pony Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 maybe they think it's just a load of bluster and they heard the same shit about the split and nothing came of it? i can understand people chucking it if they're not enjoying it, can't afford it or have something else to do but to chuck it because we'll be playing 9 teams 4 times rather than 5 teams 4 times and 6 teams 3 times seems mental to me. what's the difference? It's because it is a backward step to a set up we know failed miserably before. It is a step so clearly made in the interests of an elite, championed by a guy who has little knowledge of Scottish football and in direct opposition to the wishes of the fans, who are the lifeblood of the clubs and game itself, that it has finally sickened many people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me Bungo Pony Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 I would guess 95% of people don't really care if we change from a 12 team league to a 10 team league. I can understand why people would stop going to games if they felt they weren't enjoying it anymore, lack of money, work on a saturday, had to look after weans etc. But to stop going to games because St Mirren and Hamilton (probably) are dropping out the league? edit - steelboy beat me to it There's an assumption here that 'Well wont drop out the top 10. They almost certainly will at some point. And what happens then? All of a sudden we don't have 4 OF games to bolster the coffers but have Dumbarton and Brechin instead. The 10/10 scenario does not solve the financial problems if your in the second 10 though the teams that are voting this through appear to be doing so on the assumption they will always be in the top 10 and so wont have to worry about that. The sums don't add up if the pot stays the same, the top 10 get more money than they currently do while the SPL is expanded to 20 teams. It is nonsense unless the whole proposal is predicated on an assumption that the TV companies will automatically want to pay more for a 10 team top division. Basically, the whole 10/10 nonsense falls apart unless the TV companies do come up with more cash. Without that guarentee, anybody outwith the OF who votes for it could be cutting their own throat .... especially if the fans stay away as they are increasingly likely to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 It's because it is a backward step to a set up we know failed miserably before. It is a step so clearly made in the interests of an elite, championed by a guy who has little knowledge of Scottish football and in direct opposition to the wishes of the fans, who are the lifeblood of the clubs and game itself, that it has finally sickened many people. how did it fail miserably? we keep on hearing that it was changed due to "negative football" ect but that's a load of made up pish which seems to have been accepted as fact. it changed from 10 to 12 because that was part of the agreement with the sfl to allow the spl to be formed in the first place, the decision to expand to 12 was made before the ten team spl even kicked a ball. thinking back i can't remember any overly negative teams in that period.certainly no one along the lines of accies. looking at wiki the first spl season with ten teams had 2.61 goals per game and last season had 2.57, not much difference at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian-in-Oz Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 Seem to recall reading somewhere that the Hearts owner wasn't going to agree to a 10 team SPL unless the money was split more evenly. With SPL delegates just having been flown over to Lithuania to have a chat with this guy i get the impression that there's maybe been a few sweetners chucked his way to get him to change his mind and not rock the mould firm boat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.