Former Motherwell Fc Players Thread

[bobbybingo]

20 minutes ago, 0Neils40yarder said:

Ive never been a fan of loaning players from clubs in the same league...however, Stephen Welsh was a breath of fresh air in terms of his abilities and his attitude.

If we were going to bring a loan player in from our rivals, the Welsh deal worked almost perfectly for all parties. We won a watch, he won a move and, you have to say, the points he helped us win against Hearts and Rangers, didn't exactly hinder Celtic's league challenge. The one regret was O'Neill's pathetic recall, seemingly just to cup tie him, but at least they didn't make a killing on his move to Swansea.

[wellfan]

Welsh was an established pro who wanted minutes to get away from Celtic, and we benefited from that. Rice is different. He chose Rangers over a pro deal at Motherwell, spent four years on the fringes, and stalled his own development. We shouldn’t be the club rebuilding a player’s career for a direct rival.

[weeyin]

48 minutes ago, wellfan said:

Welsh was an established pro who wanted minutes to get away from Celtic, and we benefited from that. Rice is different. He chose Rangers over a pro deal at Motherwell, spent four years on the fringes, and stalled his own development. We shouldn’t be the club rebuilding a player’s career for a direct rival.

Aye, if he stayed with us he'd likely have 50+ first team appearances and ready for a move to a team that want hom as a starter.

[joewarkfanclub]

1 hour ago, 0Neils40yarder said:

Ive never been a fan of loaning players from clubs in the same league...however, Stephen Welsh was a breath of fresh air in terms of his abilities and his attitude.

Agreed.

Last minute loans to fill an identified gap that we werent able to fill with a permanent player is fine, particularly if that player has quality beyond what you can normally afford.

But this early in the window we should be tying up longer term targets.

[stv]

34 minutes ago, weeyin said:

Aye, if he stayed with us he'd likely have 50+ first team appearances and ready for a move to a team that want hom as a starter.

But probably no money in the bank, looks like he did exactly what Hastie done .

[weeyin]

5 minutes ago, stv said:

But probably no money in the bank, looks like he did exactly what Hastie done .

Short term, no doubt, but I imagine Lennon Miller will be earning more over his career.

[Richie]

Slattery 3 yr deal at Sheffield Wednesday

Pretty decent move for him

[Happy Dosser]

2 hours ago, Richie said:

Slattery 3 yr deal at Sheffield Wednesday

Pretty decent move for him

Yes, and very good luck to him.  SW have insanely large crowds for a team which hasn't won the first tier in England since 1929/30.

[Orinoco]

Take it Wed have sorted their financial problems.

[weeyin]

25 minutes ago, Orinoco said:

Take it Wed have sorted their financial problems.

They were "rescued" as the media loves to say when a new consortium took them over in May.

[David]

7 hours ago, weeyin said:

Short term, no doubt, but I imagine Lennon Miller will be earning more over his career.

That's an unfair comparison in my view. Lennon is a special talent.

The previous poster mentioned Hastie, and I think we can all agree that had he not accepted that Rangers deal he'd likely have pissed about with us for a season or two, not getting a steady run, then quietly let go to drift down the leagues. Only difference is that when that happened he had a decent wedge in the bank.

I grudge no young player the chance to make good money. We can all bang on about how it would serve them better by staying at Fir Park and eventually winning the big move. But what if the big move never comes? What if they end up injured and are never the same? 

The fans aren't going to pay the mortgage or give them that financial cushion if they're playing part-time football. 

Bailey took the right course of action for himself at the time, and that's fine. 

[weeyin]

I don't grudge them either and I'm not sure what gave you that idea. 

Much the same as Hastie, I have no issues with youngsters moving to their boyhood (or parent's boyhood) clubs for more money.

The sensible career advice is to look at what happened to every other one of our youngsters that left with no first team appearances, but I understand why they still want to move. 

It's a brave or confident 18 year old that chooses 50 appearances for Motherwell over Old Firm or EPL academy money, but the history books show those are the ones with a higher chance of better things. 

[dennyc]

1 hour ago, David said:

That's an unfair comparison in my view. Lennon is a special talent.

The previous poster mentioned Hastie, and I think we can all agree that had he not accepted that Rangers deal he'd likely have pissed about with us for a season or two, not getting a steady run, then quietly let go to drift down the leagues. Only difference is that when that happened he had a decent wedge in the bank.

I grudge no young player the chance to make good money. We can all bang on about how it would serve them better by staying at Fir Park and eventually winning the big move. But what if the big move never comes? What if they end up injured and are never the same? 

The fans aren't going to pay the mortgage or give them that financial cushion if they're playing part-time football. 

Bailey took the right course of action for himself at the time, and that's fine. 

100%

Rice was doing just fine until he suffered a bad injury. Promoted to their first team squad, youngest player to feature in the first team,  featuring in European games. Captain of Scottish U19s as well I think. Then injured and a seat on the sidelines as the Club became a basket case and went through a string of Managers and coaches.  Still under 20 with a healthy bank balance. 

He also had plenty of options this time round as several decent English teams and at least two overseas sides wanted to sign him. So he must have been convinced he had a future at Ibrox to sign a new deal. And they must have faith in him as the persuaded him to stay. Yet again Rice made the decision he thought was best for him. As he should do.

Isn't it telling though. Because he abandoned us for an OF team he got vilified at the time. As did Hastie. Whereas others who opted for England or overseas as youngsters are viewed as being brave for seeking a fresh challenge and looking to further their careers.  I would have preferred him to stay, but we got a good fee when Rice left, plus add ons.  Much better for instance than when Max Johnstone opted to walk away after only 21 first team games. As he was entitled to do.

[weeyin]

TBF it takes a lot more courage to leave home as a teenager and move down to England or to a foreign country than it does to stay with your parents and drive into Glasgow.

[Jonesy]

12 hours ago, David said:

That's an unfair comparison in my view. Lennon is a special talent.

It's the perfect comparison, is it not? They're both the same age, played together all the way through the age groups and a couple of people involved have actually said Rice was potentially the better player.

Then 1 of them decides to stay and get 2 seasons of first team football under his belt and is now a Scotland international playing in Serie A while the other has stagnated with a handful of games to his name, but at least his Da' can tell all his mates his boy plays for the Rangers.

[David]

I think a lot of supporters massively overestimate how predictable football development actually is.

I see it said that Rice should have stayed because he’d have had 50 games with us and earned a bigger move later. Maybe. But statistically, most academy players never make it that far.

Across professional football, the majority of academy players are out of the game entirely by 21. Even at clubs like ours, dozens sign professional deals over a decade and only a small percentage become established first team players.

Then add injury risk. One bad injury at 18 and suddenly that “big move later” never comes.

It’s easy to point at Lennon Miller now, but Lennon is clearly an exceptional talent. Using the most successful academy player we’ve had in years as the benchmark for every youngster is hindsight.

At 16 or 17, if someone offers you serious money, elite facilities and a different pathway, I don’t think taking that deal is mental at all.

Supporters always talk about what players might earn in the future. Players have to think about what happens if that future never arrives.

[Kmcalpin]

33 minutes ago, David said:

At 16 or 17, if someone offers you serious money, elite facilities and a different pathway, I don’t think taking that deal is mental at all.

I can see both sides of the argument but relocating away from home, at 16, to a club miles away i.e. Brighton is a big move that will cause a major disruption to family life. Not all youngsters are cut out for that.  

[David]

1 hour ago, Kmcalpin said:

I can see both sides of the argument but relocating away from home, at 16, to a club miles away i.e. Brighton is a big move that will cause a major disruption to family life. Not all youngsters are cut out for that.  

I think that’s fair to an extent, but I’d say that’s slightly separate from the point I’m making.

I completely agree that uprooting at 16 and moving hundreds of miles away, or even abroad, is a huge decision and not every young player will be comfortable doing that.

But we’re still talking about young lads making career decisions in an industry where the odds of making it long term are incredibly small, and where one injury can change everything very quickly.

Some will value first team football above everything else. Some will value financial security. Some will value staying close to family. Some will back themselves enough to take a bigger gamble elsewhere.

I just think supporters are a bit too quick to look at it entirely through a footballing lens and say “he should have stayed here, played 50 games and got a better move later”.

The problem is football careers don’t follow neat scripts like that. Plenty of boys stay, never kick on, lose form, get injured or disappear down the leagues.

It’s easy to say what the right choice was after the fact. Much harder when you’re 16 and trying to make a decision that could shape the rest of your life.

[Mad Dog]

Just think of the chaps that did stay and did make a lot of appearances for us but never got a decent move elsewhere - Stuart Carswell, Barry Maguire and Jack Leitch to name but three. I fear that Ewan Wilson and Luca Ross may follow them.