2023/24 ins & outs discussion

[Casagolda]

1 hour ago, Coatsy said:

Was his agent saying that last year when he was farmed out to Cove?

Yes.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-transfer-news/max-johnston-sheffield-united-luton-26424613

There is the Record reporting he was on the radar of Luton and Sheffield Utd last March.

Quote

The teenager has already made his Motherwell debut and Steelmen boss Graham Alexander plans to give him his first-team chance next season,

Instead we signed another right back and punted him out on laon again.

[MelvinBragg]

2 minutes ago, Casagolda said:

Yes.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-transfer-news/max-johnston-sheffield-united-luton-26424613

There is the Record reporting he was on the radar of Luton and Sheffield Utd last March.

Instead we signed another right back and punted him out on laon again.

And given there already was that interest last March, it wasn't in Johnston's interests to sign a new contract even then. Paul McGinn's signing was nothing to do with Johnston and more to do with Alexander trying to run O'Donnell out of town...

[dennyc]

There were two compensation schemes introduced after Bosman  to reward teams that develop players who ultimately move on.

1. Training/ Development Fee to compensate for developing players who move on with no transfer fee. So Max Johnston.  To be split between all clubs who have developed a player (Dean Cornelius - Hibs and Motherwell) and is calculated on a standard formula devised by the football authorities. When the player moves on from the parent Club there is no transfer fee. Hence the need for compensation. I think this only applies up to the season of a players 23rd birthday. 

2. Solidarity Payment to reward a developing club where a player is transferred between different associations (Scotland/England/Europe) for a transfer fee. Applies at any age. 5% of the transfer Fee is set aside and dispersed amongst all previous clubs who have developed a player up to a certain age (21???)

The more you dig, the more confusing it gets. Two different schemes that have similarities and which both reward teams for developing youngsters. The main differences being whether or not there is a transfer fee and whether there is an age restriction applied.

My understanding re Max J is that we are due the standard training/development fee unless we negotiate a different fee with say a 20% future transfer add on. If Max does move to Sturm Graz and is later transferred outside of Austria for a fee, then we would be due a Solidarity payment deducted automatically from that transfer fee. Note that if he were transferred within Austria we would be due nothing. I would imagine that if we negotiated a 20% add on, then that Solidarity Payment potential would be superseded. That would make sense. 

 

 

[pretzel]

Riku Danzaki is offski. 

[steelboy]

2 minutes ago, pretzel said:

Riku Danzaki is offski. 

Another expensive error to fatten Burrows CV. 

 

[weeyin]

Does the CEO sign players now? No wonder we're struggling to replace him.

[MJC]

Was Danzaki not on a decent wage as he came in with a bit of pedigree? 
 

Whatever it was it clearly didn’t work out and he looked hopelessly lightweight and out of his depth, even against Raith in the Cup. 

[mio]

2 minutes ago, MJC said:

Was Danzaki not on a decent wage as he came in with a bit of pedigree? 
 

Whatever it was it clearly didn’t work out and he looked hopelessly lightweight and out of his depth, even against Raith in the Cup. 

I’m not sure he had much of a pedigree, he was young and had a few good months with an Australian b league team in a previous season, I think? 
I remember looking it up at the time and posting on here about how wise it’d be to buy a young lightweight inexperienced player to fire him into a relegation fight and someone on here (I have no doubt it was some wean) copied and pasted my response to Twitter and how I was a dinosaur 🤣 at least I got a short period of Twitter fame and was eventually proved right 🤣

[Well Well]

I wonder how much of the budget was used to pay off Danzaki. Two and a half year contract will be a fair hit to the budget

[Spiderpig]

23 minutes ago, MJC said:

Was Danzaki not on a decent wage as he came in with a bit of pedigree? 
 

Whatever it was it clearly didn’t work out and he looked hopelessly lightweight and out of his depth, even against Raith in the Cup. 

Every player we sign is a gamble, this one did not work out, he contributed feck all and wont be missed, good that we have moved him on quickly.

[SteelmaninOZ]

Danzaki played for Australian

A League side Brisbane Roar but he is a bit of a journeyman.

[wellsince75]

2 minutes ago, Well Well said:

I wonder how much of the budget was used to pay off Danzaki. Two and a half year contract will be a fair hit to the budget

Prob depends where he’s going . If he’s off ski and has another club who pay a similar wage it’s likely we’ll be fine 

 

thank goodness we’re getting him moved on at pace . This reminds me of the McLean era when he brought in plenty but wasn’t shy about moving them on when it didn’t work .  Quite happy to see the squad fillers get moved on 

[MJC]

17 minutes ago, mio said:

I’m not sure he had much of a pedigree, he was young and had a few good months with an Australian b league team in a previous season, I think? 
I remember looking it up at the time and posting on here about how wise it’d be to buy a young lightweight inexperienced player to fire him into a relegation fight and someone on here (I have no doubt it was some wean) copied and pasted my response to Twitter and how I was a dinosaur 🤣 at least I got a short period of Twitter fame and was eventually proved right 🤣

It was almost as if some saw he was Japanese and automatically thought he would be our Kyogo Furuhashi or Reo Hatate. In reality he was a very limited footballer that we seemed to invest a lot of time and a decent amount of money into bringing to the club.

2 minutes ago, Well Well said:

I wonder how much of the budget was used to pay off Danzaki. Two and a half year contract will be a fair hit to the budget

It certainly will. Which doesn’t bode well when you look at our current squad and realise that we don’t have the money to improve it.

[MJC]

7 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

Every player we sign is a gamble, this one did not work out, he contributed feck all and wont be missed, good that we have moved him on quickly.

No arguing about every signing being a gamble, but as I said this was a signing that we put alot of effort into signing, or so it appeared on the face of it anyway. It kinda had shades of Resch & Dorner under McLeish and Maurice Malpas with his Irish trio of Keegan, Murphy & Molloy. 
 

Im glad we’ve moved him on as he clearly wasn’t going to contribute anything to the team but at the same time you have to wonder about how much this will cost us to sever ties.

[Kmcalpin]

No mention of any pay off so you'd imagine it would have to benefit the club financially. 

[joewarkfanclub]

7 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

No mention of any pay off so you'd imagine it would have to benefit the club financially. 

I dont pretend to understand how these things work, however, there is no way Danzaki is walking away from a 2.5 year deal without a significant pay off. 

But the club are not going to pay up his contract in full as that would be of no benefit to us whatsoever.

Maybe given a years salary to walk away now and find a new club.

Unless of course they have gone down the disciplinary route and he has been unable to hit certain benchmarks to prove he was capable of fullfilling his role and he has been paid off?

Is that even possible in the football world?

[mfc]

The writing was on the wall for danzaki after kettlewell saying recently how poor his fitness levels were,it's best all round he's gone,hopefully we haven't taking too much of a hit financially.

[FirParkCornerExile]

2 hours ago, dennyc said:

There were two compensation schemes introduced after Bosman  to reward teams that develop players who ultimately move on.

1. Training/ Development Fee to compensate for developing players who move on with no transfer fee. So Max Johnston.  To be split between all clubs who have developed a player (Dean Cornelius - Hibs and Motherwell) and is calculated on a standard formula devised by the football authorities. When the player moves on from the parent Club there is no transfer fee. Hence the need for compensation. I think this only applies up to the season of a players 23rd birthday. 

2. Solidarity Payment to reward a developing club where a player is transferred between different associations (Scotland/England/Europe) for a transfer fee. Applies at any age. 5% of the transfer Fee is set aside and dispersed amongst all previous clubs who have developed a player up to a certain age (21???)

The more you dig, the more confusing it gets. Two different schemes that have similarities and which both reward teams for developing youngsters. The main differences being whether or not there is a transfer fee and whether there is an age restriction applied.

My understanding re Max J is that we are due the standard training/development fee unless we negotiate a different fee with say a 20% future transfer add on. If Max does move to Sturm Graz and is later transferred outside of Austria for a fee, then we would be due a Solidarity payment deducted automatically from that transfer fee. Note that if he were transferred within Austria we would be due nothing. I would imagine that if we negotiated a 20% add on, then that Solidarity Payment potential would be superseded. That would make sense. 

 

 

This is what depresses me about modern Football the club's have been very good at making the financial responsibility the responsibility of the fans. I didn't start supporting Motherwell to spend more time fretting about potential finances of transfer deals. I'm not getting at you our you message it just reflects how clubs have managed to make it the fans concern. I pay for for season ticket merchandise and other match day expenses. I like 1000s of other pay plenty. These really are not things that should animate us but they do.

[stv]

Or he was told ,in Japanese, your no getting a game in first team and hes decided he needs a game every week and moved on. 

[FirParkCornerExile]

4 minutes ago, mfc said:

The writing was on the wall for danzaki after kettlewell saying recently how poor his fitness levels were,it's best all round he's gone,hopefully we haven't taking too much of a hit financially.

He only played a couple of games but backed up everything the fans of his previously club said. A headless chicken. When you consider the apparent lengths we went to to get him you wonder who recommend that piss poor deal.

[FirParkCornerExile]

28 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

I dont pretend to understand how these things work, however, there is no way Danzaki is walking away from a 2.5 year deal without a significant pay off. 

But the club are not going to pay up his contract in full as that would be of no benefit to us whatsoever.

Maybe given a years salary to walk away now and find a new club.

Unless of course they have gone down the disciplinary route and he has been unable to hit certain benchmarks to prove he was capable of fullfilling his role and he has been paid off?

Is that even possible in the football world?

Exactly all this talk about freeing up a wage is fanciful. He's been an expensive error.

[Great Balls of Shire]

42 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

I dont pretend to understand how these things work, however, there is no way Danzaki is walking away from a 2.5 year deal without a significant pay off. 

But the club are not going to pay up his contract in full as that would be of no benefit to us whatsoever.

Maybe given a years salary to walk away now and find a new club.

Unless of course they have gone down the disciplinary route and he has been unable to hit certain benchmarks to prove he was capable of fullfilling his role and he has been paid off?

Is that even possible in the football world?

I suppose if we signed him , we should have done some due diligence, so that's kind of on the club

I've no idea if he was any good or not, never saw enough, only cup game v Raith , he wasn't the worst that day, worryingly.

Get the feeling the Scottish game was too physical for him

[Kmcalpin]

Presumably Stevie Hammell had the final say in his signing? He would also have told Nick Dawes what kind of player he wanted. 

[santheman]

Was always sceptical about the move.

Young guy miles from home, doesn't speak English, nae pals,crap food, stuck in a flat somewhere.

Destined to be a disaster from the start 

[MelvinBragg]

9 minutes ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

I suppose if we signed him , we should have done some due diligence, so that's kind of on the club

I've no idea if he was any good or not, never saw enough, only cup game v Raith , he wasn't the worst that day, worryingly.

Get the feeling the Scottish game was too physical for him

It was clear he was going to be rubbish given the amount of hype the club were putting out there. Kettlewell clearly doesn't rate him at all. 

To offer some mitigation for Danzaki though, he arrived as the wheels were falling off the Hammell regime. Van Veen had downed tools. Players that were brought in to steady things were getting injured (Blaney, Mandron), experienced professionals were performing hilariously badly (O'Donnell, Slattery), Hammell was throwing any shit at the wall to see if it would stick (the 4222 with Spittal and Slattery as two 6s and Tierney and Danzaki as two 10s seemed extreme, just wear a T shirt saying 'SACK ME, I HAVEN'T A CLUE').  Danzaki may have been pish but it was hardly the ideal situation for a young guy trying to adapt to a new country to land in. Had he arrived to a semi functioning team, we could have made a better assessment. His Motherwell career was 126 minutes...