Rangers v Motherwell 24/09/2023

[Kmcalpin]

There's no doubt we are chronically short and toothless up front and thats resulted in the loss of say 4 points in the past couple of games. Thats down to various factors. Firstly KVV was never going to be replaced like for like.  A huge loss beyond our control. Obika was signed as a target man/foil for a main striker, he then got injured again. Wilkinson was signed as a main striker but we've hardly seen him because of injury. Bair was signed as a long term project over 2 years, and I suspect we never planned to play him week after week. Biereth was the victim of a very bad tackle and we were unlucky. Shaw - a last minute stop gap?

We've been very unlucky, yes but there some potential question marks over 3 or maybe 4 of our 5 strikers. Early days but points are slipping away.

[weeyin]

SK is hanging his hat on Bair as his "project" so we'll should wait and see how that develops once he actually has a striking partner available.

While it's easy to speculate on how good/bad this season's strikers are it's been impossible to make an informed decision while most of them have been injured. Of course, that won't stop plenty making uninformed decisions. This is the internet after all.

Given how many people have slated, for example, Spittal, Slattery and Mugabi, in the past I'd rather wait to see the evidence on the pitch before jumping to rash conclusions.

[texanwellfan]

Seems like some short memories on display as well. KVV wasn’t averse to missing some easy chances. First half of last season he missed a good number of chances and also took stick for some of his performances. 

[SteelmaninOZ]

1 minute ago, texanwellfan said:

Seems like some short memories on display as well. KVV wasn’t averse to missing some easy chances. First half of last season he missed a good number of chances and also took stick for some of his performances. 

Aye he did tae 

[claretband]

Slatts was excellent - I lost count of the number of times he got barged over from behind and it was the same in the St Mirren game. Referees surely need to take action when the same player is targetted like this?

[Great Balls of Shire]

53 minutes ago, claretband said:

Slatts was excellent - I lost count of the number of times he got barged over from behind and it was the same in the St Mirren game. Referees surely need to take action when the same player is targetted like this?

Good luck to slatts , he's been a different player this year but he's good at " buying" those fouls...long may it continue 

[David]

2 hours ago, texanwellfan said:

Seems like some short memories on display as well. KVV wasn’t averse to missing some easy chances. First half of last season he missed a good number of chances and also took stick for some of his performances. 

I can only speak on a personal level, but I always had confidence in Van Veen eventually hitting some sort of form. He had a track record of scoring goals and was never really one for being known as injury-prone.

Of our current lot, I only really have the same confidence in Wilkinson, as he's someone who's shown what he can do in the past and isn't really considered an injury-prone type of player, is he?

Obika and Bair are both write-offs, in my opinion. Obika because he's seemingly injury-prone, and Bair for reasons I've gone into previously.

[SteelmaninOZ]

there’s a tale here 

 

[SteelmaninOZ]

He’s simply depressed 

 

[joewarkfanclub]

8 hours ago, weeyin said:

SK is hanging his hat on Bair as his "project" so we'll should wait and see how that develops once he actually has a striking partner available.

While it's easy to speculate on how good/bad this season's strikers are it's been impossible to make an informed decision while most of them have been injured. Of course, that won't stop plenty making uninformed decisions. This is the internet after all.

Given how many people have slated, for example, Spittal, Slattery and Mugabi, in the past I'd rather wait to see the evidence on the pitch before jumping to rash conclusions.

Given that those 3 were probably our best players at Ibrox and 2 of them have been our best players all season (along with McGinn) I would concur!

[joewarkfanclub]

5 hours ago, David said:

I can only speak on a personal level, but I always had confidence in Van Veen eventually hitting some sort of form. He had a track record of scoring goals and was never really one for being known as injury-prone.

Of our current lot, I only really have the same confidence in Wilkinson, as he's someone who's shown what he can do in the past and isn't really considered an injury-prone type of player, is he?

Obika and Bair are both write-offs, in my opinion. Obika because he's seemingly injury-prone, and Bair for reasons I've gone into previously.

I think thats a fair enough position. Add in Biereth who clearly has something about him to come through the Danish set up and be on Arsenals books, maybe we didnt do too badly and generally might be ok when they are all fit? 😉

[David]

6 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

I think thats a fair enough position. Add in Biereth who clearly has something about him to come through the Danish set up and be on Arsenals books, maybe we didnt do too badly and generally might be ok when they are all fit? 😉

If they ever end up being fit enough.

[Great Balls of Shire]

19 hours ago, David said:

I can only speak on a personal level, but I always had confidence in Van Veen eventually hitting some sort of form. He had a track record of scoring goals and was never really one for being known as injury-prone.

Of our current lot, I only really have the same confidence in Wilkinson, as he's someone who's shown what he can do in the past and isn't really considered an injury-prone type of player, is he?

Obika and Bair are both write-offs, in my opinion. Obika because he's seemingly injury-prone, and Bair for reasons I've gone into previously.

I only saw highlights but Shaw has got to be doing better with his chance ( and last week's)...if bair was missing them , we would hear plenty 

19 hours ago, David said:

I can only speak on a personal level, but I always had confidence in Van Veen eventually hitting some sort of form. He had a track record of scoring goals and was never really one for being known as injury-prone.

Of our current lot, I only really have the same confidence in Wilkinson, as he's someone who's shown what he can do in the past and isn't really considered an injury-prone type of player, is he?

Obika and Bair are both write-offs, in my opinion. Obika because he's seemingly injury-prone, and Bair for reasons I've gone into previously.

 

[texanwellfan]

Fair comment perhaps but I’d say from his limited minutes Shaw looks to have a bit more speed and skill. I’d like to see him get more time. Maybe not start but maybe on at half time or at least by 60 mins unless Bair is playing a blinder. 

[David]

2 hours ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

I only saw highlights but Shaw has got to be doing better with his chance ( and last week's)...if bair was missing them , we would hear plenty

The main difference, for me anyway, is that Shaw has shown in the past he at least knows how to score goals at this level.

[stv]

1 hour ago, David said:

The main difference, for me anyway, is that Shaw has shown in the past he at least knows how to score goals at this level.

At some point in his career he didn’t. You’ve got to start somewhere.

[David]

8 minutes ago, stv said:

At some point in his career he didn’t. You’ve got to start somewhere.

That's true. For Shaw, though, that point came when he was 19 years old and playing for Hibs in the Scottish Premiership. Which is about normal for players of a halfway decent quality.

 

[stv]

1 hour ago, David said:

That's true. For Shaw, though, that point came when he was 19 years old and playing for Hibs in the Scottish Premiership. Which is about normal for players of a halfway decent quality.

 

From what iv seem of Bair hes has been improving every leauge game . Started off he was buggered by first half then lasted a bit longer every game after that, he covers a lot of ground every game from upfront to back defending, played well at Tynecastle especially  and has some nice touches as well . He is just a bit shy when faced with his chances, that may come . The manager has got him up past the total shite we were lead to believe he was when he signed, so he must be going somewhere in the  right direction.

On an other point . KVV was not the ultimate goal machine for a long spell , after a good start  loads of comments saying he was lazy , and no sharp enough . He also missed many glaring chances for a fair spell. People seem to forget about these bad performances and say they always knew he was a good one .

[David]

40 minutes ago, stv said:

From what iv seem of Bair hes has been improving every leauge game . Started off he was buggered by first half then lasted a bit longer every game after that, he covers a lot of ground every game from upfront to back defending, played well at Tynecastle especially  and has some nice touches as well . He is just a bit shy when faced with his chances, that may come . The manager has got him up past the total shite we were lead to believe he was when he signed, so he must be going somewhere in the  right direction.

On an other point . KVV was not the ultimate goal machine for a long spell , after a good start  loads of comments saying he was lazy , and no sharp enough . He also missed many glaring chances for a fair spell. People seem to forget about these bad performances and say they always knew he was a good one .

He's certainly fitter, but that's going to come with game time. That's a no-brainer. 

And St Johnstone fans never said he was "total shite." He's clearly an athletic lad who isn't workshy. I heard it said that he does a lot of running, can't be faulted for his effort, and will absolutely try his best. It's just that his best isn't good enough. 

He's a striker who doesn't score goals. That's the one factor we cannot get away from. 

There are two factors that worry me about this guy: 

Fans are talking about him as if he's 18 years old. He's not. He's 24 years old. He's not a "project" or any of the other nonsense we've heard talked about him. When a player hits his mid-20s in today's game, what you have is pretty much what you're going to get. And with Bair, that's nine career goals in just shy of 100 games. The most he's ever scored in one season is four, and that was in the Norweigan 2nd tier.

And second, because he came in with such a poor reputation, it seems the bar has been set extremely low for him in our fan's eyes. Stuff like "he managed to make a few decent passes," "His knockdowns are decent" and so on. I'm sorry, but when you play professional football for a living, that kind of thing should be the very least you're delivering.

And come on, let's not even try to draw a comparison between a guy with the goalscoring record mentioned above and someone who, by the age Bair is now had almost 50 career goals to his name and was playing in League One down south.

Granted, Van Veen wasn't always the ultimate goal machine at Motherwell that he was last season, but he hit double figures in both his seasons here.

I'll say it again. Theo Bair may be a very nice lad, and he may try really hard and put in a lot of effort. But he's not a striker. Certainly not at the level we play at, anyway.

[wellsince75]

In terms of our strikers I believe both loanees are the guys likely to score more goals .

Appreciate Mika only had 30 mins but his attributes were clear .

shaw has only had cameos but I’ve seen enough to see he’s a decent player .

vs Bair and Obika . Neither likely to score goals but both add different value - a bit like Main did previously .

Finally we have Wilkinson , looks like he may score a few goals but doesn’t seem to have much impact on games ..

suspect SK will pick 2 . One who can score and the other who can add value in other ways 

[David]

For me, it has to be Wilkinson and Shaw. Mika is an unknown quantity, and if he comes back, then I'll be interested in seeing how he does.

Obika and Bair I don't see being at the club next season, if I'm being honest.

[texanwellfan]

1 hour ago, David said:

For me, it has to be Wilkinson and Shaw. Mika is an unknown quantity, and if he comes back, then I'll be interested in seeing how he does.

Obika and Bair I don't see being at the club next season, if I'm being honest.

Your initial comment does raise the questions….. who drops out for the second striker and how will it affect our midfield ? 

[David]

19 minutes ago, texanwellfan said:

Your initial comment does raise the questions….. who drops out for the second striker and how will it affect our midfield ? 

I mean if he goes with two up top. I'd rather still go for just one and swap Bair out for someone who offers more of a threat.

[grizzlyg]

45 minutes ago, texanwellfan said:

Your initial comment does raise the questions….. who drops out for the second striker and how will it affect our midfield ? 

I agree pal. Can't drop any of the 4 midfielders. However I would like to see Spencer on natural right side as wing back and see if SOD can play on left side

[gaz7]

2 hours ago, David said:

He's certainly fitter, but that's going to come with game time. That's a no-brainer. 

And St Johnstone fans never said he was "total shite." He's clearly an athletic lad who isn't workshy. I heard it said that he does a lot of running, can't be faulted for his effort, and will absolutely try his best. It's just that his best isn't good enough. 

He's a striker who doesn't score goals. That's the one factor we cannot get away from. 

There are two factors that worry me about this guy: 

Fans are talking about him as if he's 18 years old. He's not. He's 24 years old. He's not a "project" or any of the other nonsense we've heard talked about him. When a player hits his mid-20s in today's game, what you have is pretty much what you're going to get. And with Bair, that's nine career goals in just shy of 100 games. The most he's ever scored in one season is four, and that was in the Norweigan 2nd tier.

And second, because he came in with such a poor reputation, it seems the bar has been set extremely low for him in our fan's eyes. Stuff like "he managed to make a few decent passes," "His knockdowns are decent" and so on. I'm sorry, but when you play professional football for a living, that kind of thing should be the very least you're delivering.

And come on, let's not even try to draw a comparison between a guy with the goalscoring record mentioned above and someone who, by the age Bair is now had almost 50 career goals to his name and was playing in League One down south.

Granted, Van Veen wasn't always the ultimate goal machine at Motherwell that he was last season, but he hit double figures in both his seasons here.

I'll say it again. Theo Bair may be a very nice lad, and he may try really hard and put in a lot of effort. But he's not a striker. Certainly not at the level we play at, anyway.

You seem to have developed an agenda against Bair who has been whether you like it or not an important part of a team that is functioning pretty well with room to improve.

Lost 2 games 1-0 to a st mirren team who are unbeaten and to a team where we haven't won in league in 20 odd years and in both games all agree were fine performances .

You suggest Wilkinson and Shaw now on what they have done in past and suggested ferrie previously for god knows what reason however in life the people who always look to the past are generally not as successful as those who prioritise the future.

Your Bair rants are also starting to look a little bit personal like others who used to post on here slating every midfielder like ohara.spittall etc that kept cornelius out team as he was a local boy. Fact was and is they were better than him same as Bair is better than Ferrie.

Bair imo is doing OK as part of our 3421 formation and I like others hope he makes you eat your words.